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2 black Aces - yepee

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    #61
    Originally posted by Mellor View Post
    Smurph, 3.1k is fine,
    6k is a little big, but was mostly irrelevant at that stage,


    Bops,,,, lol

    I think 3.1k is too small. Theres sb-50, bb-100, utg raise -300, 1 mp call-300, and button raise--1100 in the middle, total---1850. Smurf makes it 3100, now 4950. I make it 3800-4k here nearly always. (that doesnt mean that bops still doesnt call, only he knows that). I also think your flop bet is a bit big. We are looking to get our chips in here on this flop, its just whats the best way of doing it. You've actually told your opponnent with this bet that your not folding your hand here, so your folding out most hands your beating. Allow them some rope to hang themselves.

    Obviously, bops was in gambling form and fancied gambling a couple of k to try and get smurfs stack. This he did, but I think we all agree if he was to use this play on a regular basis, it wouldnt see a positive return in the long run. I presume bops went into this game knowing that it was mostly made up of CPT players, (afaik Bops frequents these games), and probably plays totally different to say a well structured monkey game. he knows there a good boardie on his table, and probably no other oppossition of note, so "why not see a flop for 2k more and try and flop gin, specifically as probably has smurf on 1 of 2 hands. Easy fold if he misses.

    Thats not to say that I call there. I dont actually. I'm just trying to get into bops mindset (and thats not easy). In a multiway pot early in the tourney, I'm very happy to get in otb here with 33 for 300, and cant see the advantage of the original reraise to 1,100.

    Connie

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      #62
      Originally posted by connie147 View Post
      I think 3.1k is too small. Theres sb-50, bb-100, utg raise -300, 1 mp call-300, and button raise--1100 in the middle, total---1850. Smurf makes it 3100, now 4950. I make it 3800-4k here nearly always. (that doesnt mean that bops still doesnt call, only he knows that)
      I don't really like 4 betting bigger than a pot bet allows, just a habit, and me trying to be really rigid with betsizing lately. 3100-3300 is just under a PSB (3700 if it's 50/100), I'm pretty sure I would of made it either 3100 or 3300 exactly.
      Thats not to say that I call there. I dont actually. I'm just trying to get into bops mindset (and thats not easy). In a multiway pot early in the tourney, I'm very happy to get in otb here with 33 for 300, and cant see the advantage of the original reraise to 1,100.

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        #63
        For the record - I really like shoving pre. Obviously no good for someone with Smurfs image but for someone with mine it would work enough times to make it a valid option.

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          #64
          Originally posted by Arazi View Post
          For the record - I really like shoving pre. Obviously no good for someone with Smurfs image but for someone with mine it would work enough times to make it a valid option.
          seriously.... I really cannot see (even if you have a loola image) that shoving here would be any benefit whatsoever....

          Who are you anyway
          Bops brother???
          Follow me in twitterland

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            #65
            Originally posted by Arazi View Post
            For the record - I really like shoving pre. Obviously no good for someone with Smurfs image but for someone with mine it would work enough times to make it a valid option.
            So you really think that this is going to work if someone has 22-QQ - the only hand that you'll get action from would be KK and then its just meh.

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              #66
              If I was UTG there with KK, I would fold and move on. I would be more likely to call if I was the button though

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                #67
                Originally posted by bops View Post
                ok me bad, i suck, sorry etc

                just one final thing, as I said earlier I felt a bit dirty doing it, maybe subconsciously I just wanted a decent shot at knocking out the only capable player at the table, who also had position on me?

                anyways sorry smurph!
                This point is an absolutely huge factor in this argument.The standard in Clonmel was as bad as I've ever seen and the implied odds of taking out the only other competent player at the table is not to be underestimated.I had a very similar situation in the side event where I had Thomas Finneran at my table and 8 players who I'd swear barely knew the rules.If i had a situation where I was taking slightly the worst of it to take out Thomas and possibly get another of these payers to replace him(they were in abundance) I'd have certainly taken it.

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                  #68
                  Originally posted by Sirtoyou View Post
                  This point is an absolutely huge factor in this argument.The standard in Clonmel was as bad as I've ever seen and the implied odds of taking out the only other competent player at the table is not to be underestimated.I had a very similar situation in the side event where I had Thomas Finneran at my table and 8 players who I'd swear barely knew the rules.If i had a situation where I was taking slightly the worst of it to take out Thomas and possibly get another of these payers to replace him(they were in abundance) I'd have certainly taken it.
                  I'd have to completely disagree with this argument, if everyone is so bad at the table then there is absolutely no point in getting into a -ev spot versus the only capable player when there is so much value elsewhere.
                  "Don't overcomplicate a straight forward game with mathematical bullshit and dicussing different lines with your geeky friends" Chris Olaafson

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                    #69
                    Originally posted by Line Us View Post
                    I'd have to completely disagree with this argument, if everyone is so bad at the table then there is absolutely no point in getting into a -ev spot versus the only capable player when there is so much value elsewhere.
                    Some sense!

                    What he said. Can't really say it any better.
                    Foldaramus et foldarabimus

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                      #70
                      Originally posted by smurph View Post
                      seriously.... I really cannot see (even if you have a loola image) that shoving here would be any benefit whatsoever....

                      Who are you anyway
                      Bops brother???
                      Hi Smurf - this is HeeHawsCantona and my image would get me called here by some QQ's and I'd expect even JJ and AK's and definitely all KK's. Shoving would definitely by an option against some opponents with history against me especially from out of position.

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                        #71
                        Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                        Hi Smurf - this is HeeHawsCantona and my image would get me called here by some QQ's and I'd expect even JJ and AK's and definitely all KK's. Shoving would definitely by an option against some opponents with history against me especially from out of position.
                        I really doubt it, there is no way anybody is sticking in 150 BBs here with AK, or even QQ.
                        KK maybe, as some people can't fold it (and if ever there was a time to)

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                          #72
                          Originally posted by Mellor View Post
                          I really doubt it, there is no way anybody is sticking in 150 BBs here with AK, or even QQ.
                          KK maybe, as some people can't fold it (and if ever there was a time to)
                          I beg to differ.

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                            #73
                            As far as I know, I've never played live with you so I have no idea of your image. But if a player was bad enough to call a 300 BB 4 bet with AK then then are certainly not aware of your image or the fact that there is the idea of an image.

                            Maybe "no-way" you'll get callled was a bity strong, Bizarre things happen. Some players may be playing the 500 for a laugh. Some maybe are semi-retard and this its just luck etc.

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                              #74
                              Haven't read all the replies, got to newbie2 suggesting to shove or something embarrassing.
                              Preflop 3bet size is good.
                              Read on a bit, saw flop.
                              Flop: You can take it 2 different ways.
                              A: Bet ~3800 on flop and shove turn
                              B: Bet ~2300 on flop, ~3400 on turn and shove river

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Originally posted by Sirtoyou View Post
                                The standard in Clonmel was as bad as I've ever seen
                                absent this I am flat calling pre if I'm smurf

                                assuming the original version of facts is correct you have a big UTG raise and a reraise. If I 3 bet from the SB I am basically turning my hand face up, which means I am not getting action

                                I much rather a flat. UTG may still reraise, even push. One or other of them will defintely bet the flop so I am happy to CR virtually any flop. Maybe I'm wrong but the extra bets I expect to pick up outweigh the disadvantages of taking a 3 way flop

                                am i wrong?

                                This assumes I'm playing half decent - good players. If I am playing crap players I 3 bet pre every time

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                                  #76
                                  [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbXFSv-3seY[/ame]

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