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Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostInteresting how close the odds are for in/out on Greece still to be using the euro by the end of next year. The process of exiting is so unknown and likely tied up in ridic bureaucracy, planning, inertia, resistance, fear, that Greece to still be in the euro by the end of 2015 is my Lock of the Year. A potential bonus being that even if it was to go ahead they like to do these things on 1st Jan - so it could be agreed but the process not happen until Jan 1st 2016.
Currently @ 4/9 to still be in...Last edited by Emmet; 29-06-15, 09:20. Reason: tweet didn't show up first time so didn't see the price!
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Originally posted by Emmet View PostGet ready for the Illuminati references in that Tsipras and Varoufakis were plants by the Lizard people and Angela Merkel in order to commit hari-kari, jettisoning the dead-weight in an attempt to bind the eurozone together in order to fool us all into believing that the European Federation is a great idea and to submit to their power."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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yeouch
2011
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Well the options should be:
- default; formulate a new currency and potentially be forced to exit the EU also;
- get more money and in return accept a myriad of reform conditions;
I think we'll end up roughly in either of those places.
The Greeks seem to have been hoping to force secret option three:
- get more money with a decent portion of debt relief and accept virtually no reform conditions;
I'd say fair play for trying so long as you always had a firm idea of which of the real options you were going to fall back towards. They'll regain some respect if it's the former imo."Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes
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Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View PostWell the options should be:
- default; formulate a new currency and potentially be forced to exit the EU also;
- get more money and in return accept a myriad of reform conditions;
I think we'll end up roughly in either of those places.
The Greeks seem to have been hoping to force secret option three:
- get more money with a decent portion of debt relief and accept virtually no reform conditions;
I'd say fair play for trying so long as you always had a firm idea of which of the real options you were going to fall back towards. They'll regain some respect if it's the former imo."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View PostWell the options should be:
- default; formulate a new currency and potentially be forced to exit the EU also;
- get more money and in return accept a myriad of reform conditions;
I think we'll end up roughly in either of those places.
The Greeks seem to have been hoping to force secret option three:
- get more money with a decent portion of debt relief and accept virtually no reform conditions;
I'd say fair play for trying so long as you always had a firm idea of which of the real options you were going to fall back towards. They'll regain some respect if it's the former imo.
What sort of reform conditions do you think they will be facing under the new drachma?
Look there is one choice, stay in the Euro and EU or leave Euro and EU. There is a reality and that is there no free lunches. Leave Eurozone, print Drachmas and limp along with a no tax collection, several mirron drachma a week pension payment that relies on humanitarian aid to feed people while they try to rebuild a tourism and agriculture based economy from outside Europe is one reality. Stay in and accept what would actually be far less severe but nontheless radical economic reforms.Turning millions into thousands
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View PostWhatever way it plays out from here its some mess, and there really is no telling what is the least worst option for them now.
I'm pretty confident that there's a least worse option!
* pay their fecking taxes!
also,
The Kremlin has said it is concerned for the consequences of the crisis on the EU.
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Originally posted by Emmet View PostPretty sure Lloyd means that if they get more money from the Troika they'll have to accept whatever conditions they're offered and that's that.
Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View PostOr Option four: they haven't a fucking clue."Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View PostWut da Wat
What sort of reform conditions do you think they will be facing under the new drachma?
Look there is one choice, stay in the Euro and EU or leave Euro and EU.
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Originally posted by Lplated View PostQuestion of EU membership doesn't arise at the moment, the question is whether they stay in the Euro group or not.
First rank in my mind = Eurozone
Second rank = non-Eurozone but strong currency/economy (Denmark, Sweden etc)
Hmmm, maybe they should be fourth rank. The likes of Poland would be streets ahead."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View PostJuncker washing his hands of the Greeks right now. Don't think I have ever heard language like this from the Commission before.Originally posted by emmet02Juncker discussing the package
(all paraphrased)
- There are no wage cuts in this package
- There are no pension cuts in this package
- On many instances, we were the ones asking for the socialist measures
- Package goes beyond fiscal measures
- Lowers fiscal targets
- It is more than €12bn less in demands than previous agreement
- Many member states have higher fiscal targets despite having lower levels of debt
- Proposal to modernise the public sector
- Agreed to review collective bargaining in private sector (in line with Best European practices)
- No cuts in the levels of pensions
- Even the Greek government agrees that the Greek pension system urgently needs reform to be sustainable. They have agreed that it is unsustainable.
- It should be clear that everyone should contribute to the welfare system according to their means.
- Guaranteed minimum income scheme
- We were asking for cuts in defense, and I think we were totally right in asking.
- Removing favourable tax loopholes, for example ship owners
- A lot of this is common sense, and in line with tax justice
- more social fairness by fighting corruption, more transparency and efficiency of administration
- Who could be against independent tax administration? This is the normal rule.
- Once more, it was us pushing these measures. The offers of assistance were not taken up.
- This package for more growth and investment
- There are no quick fixes for many of Greece's underlying problems.
- E.g - why are energy prices so high compared to europe? - lack of competition and financial interests.
- Biggest problem for Greece is uncertainty, which can only really be fixed with a deal.
NOW
- Greece authorities walked away from negotiations (unexpectedly) on Friday night
- We were working on proposals regarding the vat % on hotels
- The fact that our Greek colleagues left the table at the worst moment
- We explained that a deal on these measures could unlock financial aid for the coming months.
- Discussed that EuroGroup was ready to discuss debt measures this Autumn!
- New package of €35bn was being organised to get Greece back on track.
- Not only about fiscal consolidation, but about pushing forward the growth of Greece.
- As you can see, we moved mountains until very last minute when Greek's closed the door.
- I don't have to make new proposals, I'm describing the proposals that were on the table.
- I felt we could easily reach an agreement at the EuroGroup.
- What do the Greek people know about the flexibility, the details of the offer etc
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Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View PostMaybe, but there is underlying toxicity to Greek society that means any Greek government, regardless of political idealogy, was going to make this process incredibly complicated. Bear in mind that their situation has been more than a decade in gestation.
This worth a read:
Last edited by Raoul Duke III; 29-06-15, 11:50. Reason: Link that wasn't written by a high school kid"We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View PostEver since WW2 tbf. I semi-jokingly suggested Churchill should have let Stalin have Greece (he was certainly in a position to take it). No way would the Greeks be electing clowns like Syriza in 2015 with that historical baggage behind them.
This worth a read:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Civil_War‘IF YOU had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” Genghis Khan
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Originally posted by V for Vendetta View PostThe political fallout for more radical parties in other EU countries is going to be very fascinating to watch."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View PostGuessing first serious riots will start Weds\Thurs. Tsiphillis trying to stand over his riot police beating civilians will be interesting.
That wont go down well.
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View PostGuessing first serious riots will start Weds\Thurs. Tsiphillis trying to stand over his riot police beating civilians will be interesting.
By Sunday you'll have riots, shootings and looting. Good luck holding a referendum with that going on.
Whatever fall back position the game theorists have the economic reputational damage to Greece means foreign investors will be very slow to go near Greece. A prolonged recession will take a significant turn for the worse now.‘IF YOU had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” Genghis Khan
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Who is next in line? Portugal? Spain? Us?
For all the whinging about austerity our government haven't actually made massive cuts in government spending.
Heard we could be on the hook for up to 2 Billy for greece. Hopefully that will nobble the election buying stunt of reinstating bubble era pay for civil servants
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Originally posted by Bubbleking View PostHow close were Ireland to ending up in the same position as Greece? A couple of years ago we were totalled about in the same category. Did we do that much different to them it were they in a different ballgame from the outset?
We were probably lucky that the election came when it did, if it had been say 20 months later you could have had some sort of AAA / Sinn Fein / Talk to Joe coalition who would have tried to drive us over the cliff in the same way.Turning millions into thousands
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Originally posted by PSV58 View PostWho is next in line? Portugal? Spain? Us?
For all the whinging about austerity our government haven't actually made massive cuts in government spending.
Heard we could be on the hook for up to 2 Billy for greece. Hopefully that will nobble the election buying stunt of reinstating bubble era pay for civil servants
edit: just to explain, the reaction this morning was for bond yields to go up in the PIGS countries (Port,Italy,Greece,Spain) while money moved to the safe countries Germany, Belgium and...us!Last edited by Denny Crane; 29-06-15, 12:56.
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Originally posted by V for Vendetta View PostInstead of betting on the referendum results people should be betting on whether they will happen or not.
By Sunday you'll have riots, shootings and looting. Good luck holding a referendum with that going on.
Whatever fall back position the game theorists have the economic reputational damage to Greece means foreign investors will be very slow to go near Greece. A prolonged recession will take a significant turn for the worse now."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View PostJudging by the horrified silence of our own Syriza wannabes, it won't!
Originally posted by Megatron View PostWhat way is this Greece thing going to affect GBP v Euro? Is the rate going to change much?Last edited by Denny Crane; 29-06-15, 13:11.
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Originally posted by Strewelpeter View PostNoonan was fairly candid about it, there was between 3 and 6 worth months of money available to pay salaries and keep schools and hospitals open when he took over.
We were probably lucky that the election came when it did, if it had been say 20 months later you could have had some sort of AAA / Sinn Fein / Talk to Joe coalition who would have tried to drive us over the cliff in the same way.
You can bet Syriza got similar briefings when they took over."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Raoul Duke III View PostI remember the Labour ministers in particular being utterly shocked when they got their first briefing on the state of the public finances. In fairness to them they put their heads down and got to work.
You can bet Syriza got similar briefings when they took over.
If business is talking, and doing nothing that is.
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Originally posted by Emmet View PostGet ready for the Illuminati references in that Tsipras and Varoufakis were plants by the Lizard people and Angela Merkel in order to commit hari-kari, jettisoning the dead-weight in an attempt to bind the eurozone together in order to fool us all into believing that the European Federation is a great idea and to submit to their power.
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Originally posted by Denny Crane View PostWe're almost part of the core now
edit: just to explain, the reaction this morning was for bond yields to go up in the PIGS countries (Port,Italy,Greece,Spain) while money moved to the safe countries Germany, Belgium and...us!
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Originally posted by Denny Crane View Post
They do have a pretty nasty neo-Nazi movement, Golden Dawn. Pretty fertile ground for them right now."We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."
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Originally posted by Denny Crane View PostWe're almost part of the core now
edit: just to explain, the reaction this morning was for bond yields to go up in the PIGS countries (Port,Italy,Greece,Spain) while money moved to the safe countries Germany, Belgium and...us!
Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View PostThat's why all those loss-making web firms, like Tripadvisor, Airbnb choose Ireland all right If you want to actually just not pay tax you go to Luxembourg and also get nice weather in return.
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Originally posted by DeadParrot View PostIt's not even the best BK burger.
Double Whopper with Cheese FTW.
Smokey Bacon Burger from Supermacs is the obv winner, you dont get bacon, you get an honest to goodness rasher
The bk XL still in front.
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Originally posted by Bubbleking View PostHow close were Ireland to ending up in the same position as Greece? A couple of years ago we were totalled about in the same category. Did we do that much different to them it were they in a different ballgame from the outset?"I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson
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Originally posted by dobby View PostSupermacs ruined this with their fancy salad and onions. Will ask for no onions next time and see if it makes it better. The sauce was nice though. If they did an XL version it may be closer.
The bk XL still in front.
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Originally posted by AndyFatBastard View PostBiggest difference is that we had flourishing IT and Pharma industries. Greece has tourism and shipping.
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Originally posted by CHD View PostPeople need to get their priorities straight. There is a lot to be debated.
I'm on the XL Bacon Double Cheeseburger bandwagon myself.
Are there any rivals worth even reviewing?
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Originally posted by Emmet View PostIt almost certainly ticks all the boxes in both quality and quantity when it comes to a fast food option.
Are there any rivals worth even reviewing?
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Originally posted by Emmet View PostIt almost certainly ticks all the boxes in both quality and quantity when it comes to a fast food option.
Are there any rivals worth even reviewing?
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