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Player deliberately folds his hand before flop. Allowed???

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    Player deliberately folds his hand before flop. Allowed???

    This arose in a rebuy tourney. Player had lost a huge pot and was down to 1 big blind, and was all in on next hand. Got 2 callers.

    Buzzer then went to signify end of rebuy period which meant that if he won this last hand he would have only 3 big blinds so he mucked his cards before the flop and then was allowed a rebuy. Oh there was no add on allowed in this game. Is this ok?

    #2
    Weird game but he mucked his hand so he lost. Seems fine getting his rebuy and playing on.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by joedolan View Post
      This arose in a rebuy tourney. Player had lost a huge pot and was down to 1 big blind, and was all in on next hand. Got 2 callers.

      Buzzer then went to signify end of rebuy period which meant that if he won this last hand he would have only 3 big blinds so he mucked his cards before the flop and then was allowed a rebuy. Oh there was no add on allowed in this game. Is this ok?
      He bet all in and was called?

      he cant fold. must turn them over and win or lose as usual. hand plays as normal.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by thegreatiam View Post
        He bet all in and was called?

        he cant fold. must turn them over and win or lose as usual. hand plays as normal.
        but he mucked his cards

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by joedolan View Post
          but he mucked his cards
          dealer should stop him.

          If he's all in the hand must be played. cant fold an all in.

          edit:
          If the dealer has tried to stop him and he has made this impossible for the dealer to work then i would eject him.
          If the dealer made a mistake and not noticed then his hand would be killed as usual and the chips lost. I would then make a decision as to weather or not to allow him to rebuy.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by thegreatiam View Post
            dealer should stop him.

            If he's all in the hand must be played. cant fold an all in.

            edit:
            If the dealer has tried to stop him and he has made this impossible for the dealer to work then i would eject him.
            If the dealer made a mistake and not noticed then his hand would be killed as usual and the chips lost. I would then make a decision as to weather or not to allow him to rebuy.
            was a self deal game and he threw hos cards onto the muck, they couldnt be identified

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by joedolan View Post
              was a self deal game and he threw hos cards onto the muck, they couldnt be identified
              Sadly things like this are impossible to police without a dealer.

              The rule is he must play the hand out. He is deliberately breaching a rule to make a gain.
              No this is not ok.

              if its up to me... ejected from the game.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by thegreatiam View Post
                dealer should stop him.

                If he's all in the hand must be played. cant fold an all in.

                edit:
                If the dealer has tried to stop him and he has made this impossible for the dealer to work then i would eject him.
                If the dealer made a mistake and not noticed then his hand would be killed as usual and the chips lost. I would then make a decision as to weather or not to allow him to rebuy.
                You really are an absolute asshole on these threads. Show me that rule in print!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                  You really are an absolute asshole on these threads. Show me that rule in print!
                  TDA rules, number 11

                  11:Face Up for All-Ins
                  All cards will be turned face up without delay once a player is all-in and all betting action by all other players in the hand is complete.

                  Im not here to be right or wrong, i just answer the asked question. he asked was it allowed I told him it wasnt allowed. It would then be up to the floor person to decide if he should be punished. I gave my opinions if I was the floor person. don't like it, go fuck your self.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by thegreatiam View Post
                    TDA rules, number 11

                    11:Face Up for All-Ins
                    All cards will be turned face up without delay once a player is all-in and all betting action by all other players in the hand is complete.


                    Im not here to be right or wrong, i just answer the asked question. he asked was it allowed I told him it wasnt allowed. It would then be up to the floor person to decide if he should be punished. I gave my opinions if I was the floor person. don't like it, go fuck your self.
                    That's not the rule for what happened in this case. All betting action wasn't finished. There was side betting because there were 2 other players in the pot, and the allin guy mucked his hand before the flop. I don't see what the allin guy did wrong. He's been punished by retarded rules that make you have to lose all your chips before you can rebuy, so he did what was best for him, and i like it.

                    You can't really apply TDA rules to a self dealt game that has a buzzer to let you know when the rebuy period is over, with no add on available?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                      That's not the rule for what happened in this case. All betting action wasn't finished. There was side betting because there were 2 other players in the pot, and the allin guy mucked his hand before the flop. I don't see what the allin guy did wrong. He's been punished by retarded rules that make you have to lose all your chips before you can rebuy, so he did what was best for him, and i like it.

                      You can't really apply TDA rules to a self dealt game that has a buzzer to let you know when the rebuy period is over, with no add on available?
                      Originally posted by joedolan View Post
                      This arose in a rebuy tourney. Player had lost a huge pot and was down to 1 big blind, and was all in on next hand. Got 2 callers.

                      Buzzer then went to signify end of rebuy period which meant that if he won this last hand he would have only 3 big blinds so he mucked his cards before the flop and then was allowed a rebuy. Oh there was no add on allowed in this game. Is this ok?
                      The rule is as it is written, once a player is all in then all cards are turned over. After all betting action from other player is concluded all hands go face up.

                      TDA rules is intended for all tournaments regardless of if they are self deal or not.

                      TDA rules are voluntary tho, if that tournament chooses not to use TDA rules then you would need to clarify that.
                      Since TDA rules are common practice and usually the go to for most tournaments I feel comfortable using them in this example.
                      Unless you would like to use the APA (American poker association) rule? then the player is under no obligation to show his cards in an all-in and can muck safely. thereby passing a winning hand and getting a free rebuy and prolonging his life in the tournament. But I haven't seen an APA tournament in over 8 years so I don't really feel comfortable using those rules any more.

                      Since as long as I remember most major events have used starting stack or less as a rebuy limit to avoid these situations then I have to assume that the organisor wanted to enforce this exact situation.

                      Im getting stick here for explaining rules which are widely available.

                      So i will remind people of a quote by the Dalai Lama:
                      “Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively.”

                      Comment


                        #12
                        but he got 2 callers pre, why should he turn his cards over?? unless it's a 3 way all in pre.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by theshortstack View Post
                          but he got 2 callers pre, why should he turn his cards over?? unless it's a 3 way all in pre.
                          Pre or not, all hands are shown once someone is all-in.

                          It does state
                          ...and all betting action by all other players in the hand is complete

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by thegreatiam View Post
                            Pre or not, all hands are shown once someone is all-in.

                            It does state
                            There was side betting, the hands aren't shown until the river.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Hmm not sure why you thank tglynn's post, and not mine or shortstacks where we said the same thing?? He was allin but he wasn't at showdown. He mucked his hand, lost the hand, had no chips so in that game he should be able to rebuy

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                                Hmm not sure why you thank tglynn's post, and not mine or shortstacks where we said the same thing?? He was allin but he wasn't at showdown. He mucked his hand, lost the hand, had no chips so in that game he should be able to rebuy
                                I assumed he was confirming the fact my post says, "all betting action by all other players in the hand is complete"

                                "There was side betting, the hands aren't shown until the river."

                                Doesn't matter when you go all in, after the rest of the hand is concluded all players must turn their cards over. If there are more than 2 players at showdown they all have to show. NO one can muck.

                                If i go all in and you 3 check check til the river and, FD, you show a royal flush, then we all still have to on their backs, cannot muck.

                                If you bet the royal and everyone else folds then you and I must show. Either way, once all action is complete in the hand all players still live must turn over.

                                So, because he is all in with 1 BB, then he must show his cards at showdown.

                                So to answer the original question, is it allowed? no it is not allowed.

                                Comment

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