Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Weird spot in European S/H

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Weird spot in European S/H

    Playing in the recent 6 max tourney in the Regency meant I got to see a lot of plays either good, bad or ugly. For me this was one of the hands that stuck out for me that I like people thoughts on.

    It is late in day two and the bubble has busted and we were all guaranteed a min of €1k. The blinds are 4k - 8k with 1k anti.

    The relevant players are as follow

    SB with ~ 160k
    UTG+1 ~ 390k
    Hero button with 570k

    Hero has K J

    Preflop action:

    UTG fold, UTG+1 bet 16k, MP fold, Hero calls 16k, SB calls and BB fold.

    Flop: K, J, A

    Flop action: SB goes all in, UTG+1 raises all in

    Hero ...

    Notes on players:

    Both were fairly new to the table, the SB was at my table for 2 levels or so and the UTG+1 was there for 1 level or so.
    SB was 50s moraccon/egyptian fish involved in 80 - 90% of hands. He was playing very wild and I have no idea how he managed to survive as long as he had. I remember a previous hand that he won with 72o. Complete donk.

    UTG+1 was more unusual and slightly strange. He was a 30/40 yo frenchman. He seem to be really nitty but passive. Opinion was based on the fact he seemed to be involved in 15% or so of hands. Only previous hand I remember him in was where he was UTG and check/call a hand three streets with JJ to be beaten by a K on the river. He didn't even raise that preflop

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by pokerhand; 30-09-13, 12:21. Reason: Posted wrong flop info
    No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.

    #2
    Snap call

    Comment


      #3
      Fold, esp w reads. Gonna be drawing very slim, very often vs UTG. 5 combos of AA/KK/JJ, 6 each of AK & AJ, 8 (discounted) combos of QT, whereas we only beat maybe 4 combo-FDs and a discounted amount of AT/AQ given nitty history (maybe 6 of each), which still have decent equity vs us.
      "c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Caf View Post
        Snap call
        If stacks were 300k SB and 100k for UTG+1, I would agree with that but UTG+1 is the nitty player.
        No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.

        Comment


          #5
          Snap fold.

          Comment


            #6
            Anyone else 3-bet this preflop?

            Tight UTG+1 will play pretty faceup here and I expect the sb peeler to peel with alot of worse hands.

            I sigh fold now, as played.

            Comment


              #7
              Call.

              Assuming the UTG+1 has been paying attention has been paying attention to how SB has been playing, he could easily be reshoving with all Aces, and some kings.

              Dont think he will reshove to iso with AA,KK,JJ,Q10 and we have blockers to KK and JJ.

              I'd expect him to show up here with random aces here alot and think 2 pair would be too strong to fold to the action and previous history in front of you.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by AKDonk View Post
                Call.

                Assuming the UTG+1 has been paying attention has been paying attention to how SB has been playing, he could easily be reshoving with all Aces, and some kings.

                Dont think he will reshove to iso with AA,KK,JJ,Q10 and we have blockers to KK and JJ.

                I'd expect him to show up here with random aces here alot and think 2 pair would be too strong to fold to the action and previous history in front of you.

                A very important piece of info we have on the utg player is the JJ hand he played, and thats all we have to go on really. Not only did he not raise JJ from relatively the same position, but he didnt even bet it through the streets at any stage, and now he wants to reship over a shoved flop bet on this board? Why would you expect him to show up here with random aces? He is after raising here p/f, so imho, premium aces would be the only aces in his range from the info we have. I cant put the sb on a f/d due to your read, and if the info is correct, AK or AA seems most likely there, with other sets obviously a lesser possibility because of your holding.
                Of course you have had very little table time to form a more definate read on the player, but from the 1 piece of info you have, I think you have to find a fold button. You seem to have a decent stack, and should find better spots than this.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by pokerhand View Post
                  If stacks were 300k SB and 100k for UTG+1, I would agree with that but UTG+1 is the nitty player.
                  I didn't see the edit. The flop had a four on it and not an ace when I went to post. Different hand altogether now.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by AKDonk View Post
                    Call.

                    Assuming the UTG+1 has been paying attention has been paying attention to how SB has been playing, he could easily be reshoving with all Aces, and some kings.

                    Dont think he will reshove to iso with AA,KK,JJ,Q10 and we have blockers to KK and JJ.

                    I'd expect him to show up here with random aces here alot and think 2 pair would be too strong to fold to the action and previous history in front of you.
                    +1 on this. This actually was the point that was bugging me. I knew he must have made the same read of the SB as I did. I just couldn't pin-point what to put him on as I saw the iso move as I couldn't tell how strong he was as I was thinking of Winning's post hands range that I was trying to put on him given the pre-flop action and that I have discounted Q10 from his range.

                    To be honest, preflop I didn't see any point in cbetting as I figured he would either call or raise all in preflop given his nitty image. I wanted to keep the pot small for the time being as I was mostly likely would have to c/f the flop unless I got a favourable texture on board given my read of the villian.

                    The biggest issue was that I simply had too much limited info on villian. I couldn't work out where I stood. So I took a step back and thought of a key point that was most relevant to me i.e. I had only 16k invested and would be risking 50% of my stack on too many unknown variables. So I took the coward way out and folded. Regardless of the outcome of the hand I just wanted to know how other people would act in that spot and why...
                    No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by connie147 View Post
                      A very important piece of info we have on the utg player is the JJ hand he played, and thats all we have to go on really. Not only did he not raise JJ from relatively the same position, but he didnt even bet it through the streets at any stage, and now he wants to reship over a shoved flop bet on this board? Why would you expect him to show up here with random aces? He is after raising here p/f, so imho, premium aces would be the only aces in his range from the info we have. I cant put the sb on a f/d due to your read, and if the info is correct, AK or AA seems most likely there, with other sets obviously a lesser possibility because of your holding.
                      Of course you have had very little table time to form a more definate read on the player, but from the 1 piece of info you have, I think you have to find a fold button. You seem to have a decent stack, and should find better spots than this.
                      Min cash was 1000 in this tourney so the bubble has just burst. People tend to tighten up around the bubble, and with a 40 BB stack, I assume the UTG+1 player did not want to get out of line pre bubble. now that the bubble has burst, it is a completely different dynamic and many players will start to open up their range and play freely.

                      It is 6-Max and most Ax hands are going to open from this position. Sure he will show up with AK some of the time, but I believe he has too many other combos of hands to fold KJ here.

                      I suppose it is about weather we want to ladder or put yourself in a position to win with a big stack 100 players out.

                      Without any other reads about the players other than 1st to act was a maniac, 2nd to act was a competent nit who could have had the same read on the SB, both around the bubble, I am not folding this.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by pokerhand View Post
                        +1 on this. This actually was the point that was bugging me. I knew he must have made the same read of the SB as I did.
                        I love shoving over a maniac with a v.strong hand as it gives this exact first impression. An when people get that idea in their head its hard to shake out. I'm not saying he is absolutely thinking a level above here, but its a possibility. Even if his exact hand gave us the equity to call, we might not have been ahead of his range.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I'd fold this instantly

                          Comment


                            #14
                            it's a 3 bet pre flop on the button from me.
                            Now, I'd probably sigh fold.
                            People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
                            Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
                            https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X