Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.

[Raoul Duke III]

Postal orders, now there's a throwback. Sending off your 10p P.O. to the Beano to get your Gnasher practical jokes kit.

Thanks for the reminder LL.

I think, if you're looking to buy high-end vino, then an out of season ferry trip is probably the thing.

[Raoul Duke III]

Thanks, but Dr Smurfit shipped me a case of it recently so I'm good.

For those unaware of GAB's reference point here:

Smurfit reportedly keeps a personal decanter of Château Petrus for quaffing at dinner while bemused guests make do with a lesser vintage.

[Denny Crane]

Why do so few women go into poker, sports betting, trading, politics?

[mdoug]

Literally was surprised to see Huddersfield were in the premier league today when I went through the names of teams. I'm either getting senile or I really have lost total interest in the game.

Dougs update

[AndyFatBastard]

Again Andy is that the same differences that 100 ago years meant that women would be nurses and secretary's rather than doctors and lawyers.

Nobody's claiming that this was a good thing or that the previous attitudes - that women were incapable of doing those jobs - was correct.

The female brains ability to learn and undertake maths or problem solving is no different to a mans. Perhaps they are not interested but that is due to societal norms rather than genetics and this is now changing.

Not really, no. The combination of neuroscience and genetics have proven that there are significant sex differences in various abilities between the average man and woman. Again this doesn't mean that women are incapable of anything, just that certain aptitudes are more likely to be found in men than in women. These happen to be the aptitudes that we value highly in our current society.

The guys picked the crappiest argument out of an area where there are legit areas of concern.

If you read the post, you'll notice the great lengths he goes to to avoid criticising the areas of concern he deems to be legitimate. There's a huge bit that's not legitimate - ie. the expectation that parity must be achieved and that all differences are caused by oppression. Anyway, his primary difficulties are in very specific areas where he is worried the cure is worse than the disease.

I am with him on women spending more money, fucking buff day spa.

Sexist pig. You're fired.

[Strewelpeter]

Why do so few women go into poker, sports betting, trading, politics?

Perhaps because they are boys clubs.

[DeadParrot]

How many citations do you want for all of those items? This is mostly extremely well established science at this point. His original post had a bunch of citations in it, but they were stripped by Gizmodo when they published the leaked document. I can't wait for them to go out of business.

I 100% agree with you in that regard.
That was a shitty thing done by gizmodo and showed clear and complete bias in their reporting

[hotspur]

Why do so few women go into poker, sports betting, trading, politics?

Women are more risk averse. Also the above seem close to game playing which I think women spend less time and effort with.

[RichieM]

Nobody's claiming that this was a good thing or that the previous attitudes - that women were incapable of doing those jobs - was correct.



Not really, no. The combination of neuroscience and genetics have proven that there are significant sex differences in various abilities between the average man and woman. Again this doesn't mean that women are incapable of anything, just that certain aptitudes are more likely to be found in men than in women. These happen to be the aptitudes that we value highly in our current society.



If you read the post, you'll notice the great lengths he goes to to avoid criticising the areas of concern he deems to be legitimate. There's a huge bit that's not legitimate - ie. the expectation that parity must be achieved and that all differences are caused by oppression. Anyway, his primary difficulties are in very specific areas where he is worried the cure is worse than the disease.



Sexist pig. You're fired.

Other experts have claimed the exact opposite. If you can find guys with phds who will say that smoking is fine then obv you can find phds to back any claim.

No offence to the academics on the site but who ever funds the study tends to get the results they want.

Saying that coding is related to having a cock and balls is pretty much the same as saying that women's heads are just too small to have brains big enough to keep the information

[Theresa]

Women are more risk averse. Also the above seem close to game playing which I think women spend less time and effort with.

Dunno what kinda women you've been hanging out with mate.

[Keane]

Coding isn't really engineering anyway.

[AndyFatBastard]

You'll have to explain why that follows

Because of the bilologial differences is it

The point is that we know quite a lot about what biological differences exist and how they manifest. These will create different outcomes, and when you see different outcomes, this is not neccessarily evidence of sexism. Further, efforts to achieve equity when there are clear differences in aptitude, are doomed to fail.

Not sure what you mean by complete equ(al)ity at all costs?
Obv none of us are working at google but their diversity program doesn't sound to me like an 'at all costs' program. Maybe you point out if you can some examples of what you mean

I think it's safe to assume he's seeing a whole bunch of the kind of crap my American friends espouse on Facebook, Twitter and Tumblr - that all disparities are the result of discrimination, and anyone who even questions this is a sexist, racist, cisgendered shitlord who needs to check his privilege.

As I said to Richie, you'll notice the great lengths he goes to to acknowledge the legitimate concerns of women in tech and his belief in diversity and the value of diversity. His concern is whether the demand for greater and greater equity will actually result in lessened equality.

Not sure what most of that means but I do think what I find most objectionable and what I see as the Brietbart / Trump fanboi mindset is the idea that improving access to all is in any way hamstringing the majority. Thats just whinging of the pisspoor privileged hanging on desperately to his undeserved status.

Just because it partially aligns with some of the things you see espoused in ultra-conservative media, doesn't mean it is exactly the same thing. This is the root of your mistake. You see a well-crafted, moderate argument which has some semblance to an extreme, irrational one. It's much easier to burn the strawman than challenge your deeply-held beliefs.

And if you don't know about unconscious bias training or micro-aggression training, hoo boy are you out of touch with modern social justice. Hint: It's poisonous.

[AndyFatBastard]

Read the article Tara posted, this is a great quote:

The author of the Google essay on issues related to diversity gets nearly all of the science and its implications exactly right. Its main points are that: 1. Neither the left nor the right gets diversity completely right; 2. The social science evidence on implicit and explicit bias has been wildly oversold and is far weaker than most people seem to realize; 3. Google has, perhaps unintentionally, created an authoritarian atmosphere that has stifled discussion of these issues by stigmatizing anyone who disagrees as a bigot and instituted authoritarian policies of reverse discrimination; 4. The policies and atmosphere systematically ignore biological, cognitive, educational, and social science research on the nature and sources of individual and group differences. I cannot speak to the atmosphere at Google, but: 1. Give that the author gets everything else right, I am pretty confident he is right about that too; 2. It is a painfully familiar atmosphere, one that is a lot like academia.

[Tar.Aldarion]

Why do so few women go into poker, sports betting, trading, politics?

Societal and physiological problems, recently read a great memo on it

Not sure what you mean by complete equ(al)ity at all costs?
Obv none of us are working at google but their diversity program doesn't sound to me like an 'at all costs' program. Maybe you point out if you can some examples of what you mean

I guess things like forced quotas can be harmful. For instance if you have 95% applicants being female/male but force a 50/50 split then it breeds problems as well as remedies.

Recently there has been a rise of people thinking they are a "diversity hire" (women and/or certain ethnicities is what I have personally seen in tech) and that causing them psychological problems, another level to the imposter syndrome problem.

[Strewelpeter]

The point is that we know quite a lot about what biological differences exist and how they manifest. These will create different outcomes, and when you see different outcomes, this is not neccessarily evidence of sexism. Further, efforts to achieve equity when there are clear differences in aptitude, are doomed to fail.

...

... The policies and atmosphere systematically ignore biological, cognitive, educational, and social science research on the nature and sources of individual and group differences. I cannot speak to the atmosphere at Google, but....

PZMyers does a good job of addressing this
What differentiates a good engineer from a clueless ignoramus?

Yes, there are real biological differences. But what are they?

Name these universal differences. Which ones are relevant to working as an engineer at Google? Do you realize that engineering, Google, and even working are socially constructed concepts? I rather doubt that we evolved sex differences in being able to code in Java or Python.

Which of these differences have clear biological causes linked to prenatal testosterone? I can think of a few: gonadal differentiation and formation of the external genitalia. Unless you’re banging out code with your testicles these are not relevant to working as an engineer at Google. The factors that do affect competence at engineering do not have clear biological causes.

“Biological” (I am learning to hate that modifier in these contexts) males that were not castrated at birth may still identify and act like females, whatever that means. What does it mean to act like a male or female? Do you realize that those terms are largely socially constructed?

Which traits are highly heritable? Producing sperm? Excessive body hair? Liking to watch football? Are these relevant to working as an engineer at Google, and what makes you think they’re exclusive to “biological” males?

Since the whole point of evolutionary psychology is to make up evidence to justify the status quo, that is a true statement, since EP predicts everything after the fact. It’s just not much of an endorsement to cite quack science in favor of your claims.
I agree that sex differences aren’t just socially constructed. If you’re born with a penis (a biological property), you will experience a different social environment than if you’re born with a vagina, or if you’re born intersex. You will then experience a cascade of influences that shape how you think about the world, including how you think about sex, and sometimes you’re born with, or acquire responses to gender that do not match narrow preconceptions about how men and women should be. It is flatly absurd to try and reduce the factors that make up a human being to “biological” or “social”. Biology modifies culture, and culture modifies biology. Neither stand alone.

[Strewelpeter]

For instance if you have 95% applicants being female/male but force a 50/50 split then it breeds problems as well as remedies.

Where is that happening?

[Strewelpeter]

I can tell you where it was happening up until recently anyway. Primary school teaching in Ireland c.2010 when schools were getting 150+ applicants per job, there was 100% employment amongst the <10% male cohort of males who were actively seeking a position.

[Guest]

Where is that happening?

Science funding for one.

[AndyFatBastard]

Other experts have claimed the exact opposite. If you can find guys with phds who will say that smoking is fine then obv you can find phds to back any claim.

No offence to the academics on the site but who ever funds the study tends to get the results they want.

Saying that coding is related to having a cock and balls is pretty much the same as saying that women's heads are just too small to have brains big enough to keep the information

From the article Tara posted:

Within the field of neuroscience, sex differences between women and men—when it comes to brain structure and function and associated differences in personality and occupational preferences—are understood to be true, because the evidence for them (thousands of studies) is strong. This is not information that’s considered controversial or up for debate; if you tried to argue otherwise, or for purely social influences, you’d be laughed at.

Sex researchers recognize that these differences are not inherently supportive of sexism or stratifying opportunities based on sex. It is only because a group of individuals have chosen to interpret them that way, and to subsequently deny the science around them, that we have to have this conversation at a public level. Some of these ideas have been published in neuroscientific journals—despite having faulty study methodology—because they’ve been deemed socially pleasing and “progressive.” As a result, there’s so much misinformation out there now that people genuinely don’t know what to believe.

It really is a closed topic. Denying it is roughly equivalent to denying global warming.

[Guest]

Why do so few women go into poker, sports betting, trading, politics?

Sure we are nearly taking OVER poker sports betting trading and politics. You would be hard pressed to get a job in any of them as a man.

[Guest]

Societal and physiological problems, recently read a great memo on it


I guess things like forced quotas can be harmful. For instance if you have 95% applicants being female/male but force a 50/50 split then it breeds problems as well as remedies.

Recently there has been a rise of people thinking they are a "diversity hire" (women and/or certain ethnicities is what I have personally seen in tech) and that causing them psychological problems, another level to the imposter syndrome problem.

Ach I totes agree ..i mean this guy barely got in ......it's important he is there to insist the Irish Army finally defend the people of kerry from Flowers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Iy4DdpA2C4&t=299s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUcJCTh9Jw0

[dobby]

Don't forget about the fairies digging up the road p&f. Something you probably agree with

[Keane]

Rhododendrons wouldn't even make the top 100 list of reasons why Killarney is a kip.

[Denny Crane]

I have indeed got excise duty absolutely wrong. Assumed it was percentage of sale price.

Don't forget about the fairies digging up the road p&f. Something you probably agree with

Those guys are clearly studying Trump, no one else could have got those issues into the national news so easily.

[Guest]

Don't forget about the fairies digging up the road p&f. Something you probably agree with

Totes.

[Guest]

Those guys are clearly studying Trump, no one else could have got those issues into the national news so easily.

Trump should study Irish politicians.

[hotspur]

Totes.

Stop saying totes.

[Guest]

Stop saying totes.

No

[Solksjaer!]

vive la difference if I'm not being very old fashioned , I say vive la difference , good girl good girl.

[Guest]

vive la difference if I'm not being very old fashioned , I say vive la difference , good girl good girl.

Really?

[Guest]

Yeah Mike ..

[Guest]

vive la difference if I'm not being very old fashioned , I say vive la difference , good girl good girl.

sexism hurts feelings...

Whatever


spits

[Guest]

Ignorance does not equate difference.

[Solksjaer!]

sexism hurts feelings...

Whatever


spits

Ah here love , leave it out. Any more photos sweet cheeks ?

Farts

[Guest]

Farts

Everyone run while we hold our breath

[Dice75]

Wonder how Dom is coping with his first week of lockdown....

[Hectorjelly]

I'd heard about this story earlier in the week, but its really worth watching for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FntqumzeJsY

[6starpool]

Wonder how Dom is coping with his first week of lockdown....

Got close close to 6 hours sleep (nearly 5 in one lot at one point) the last 3 nights since the missus abandoned the breastfeeding, so not too bad. He's being a cranky cunt today though, and I saw him make 3 shits in 5 mins, soft serve style, earlier. At least he had the hose off that time.

Great craic.

[dobby]

If anyone goes to McDonald's and gets a dark blue Shrewsbury Road in the monopoly game I will go halves on the 10k cash with my Ailesbury Road. Thanks.

[oleras]

I'd heard about this story earlier in the week, but its really worth watching for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FntqumzeJsY

Screwdriver on the floor ? OK, no need to keep him at gunpoint but he needed to control the situation.

This shit is real.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYTBTw-_TCI

[Strewelpeter]

I'd heard about this story earlier in the week, but its really worth watching for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FntqumzeJsY

Well that was a complete waste of time.

The only bit of any possible interest is cut out, where he made whatever manoeuvre it was that got the cop excited enough to point the gun at him. Once he does that no matter how many time yer man calls him bro the gun isn't going away until back up arrives.

[Strewelpeter]

If anyone goes to McDonald's and gets a dark blue Shrewsbury Road in the monopoly game I will go halves on the 10k cash with my Ailesbury Road. Thanks.

LOL
Your Shrewsbury Road is worth .0001c

[Strewelpeter]

[dobby]

LOL
Your Shrewsbury Road is worth .0001c

Well.considering I don't have a Shrewsbury it's worth fuck all and you completely missed the point

[dobby]

That super cup wasn't a bad game. Some brilliant play from Madrid. 2-1 decent enough for United imo

[Guest]

Dracaris

[Hectorjelly]

Well that was a complete waste of time.

The only bit of any possible interest is cut out, where he made whatever manoeuvre it was that got the cop excited enough to point the gun at him. Once he does that no matter how many time yer man calls him bro the gun isn't going away until back up arrives.

The point is that in the course of routine traffic stop, the guy gets a gun pointed right at him at point blank for ten minutes. Can you imagine what that feels like? Whatever happens before of after that, that guy is going to be permanently affected by that.

[oleras]

Hard knocks starts again tonight.

Didn't realise Last Chance U was available.

[dobby]

Hard knocks starts again tonight.

Didn't realise Last Chance U was available.

Either of them on netflix?

[Solksjaer!]

A fantastic guitarist just died but better known for his singing. RIP Glen Campbell

[Solksjaer!]

That super cup wasn't a bad game. Some brilliant play from Madrid. 2-1 decent enough for United imo

Season starts the weekend. Jose Will win something but style of play leaves me flat.

[oleras]

Either of them on netflix?

Last chance u is.

[Strewelpeter]

The point is that in the course of routine traffic stop, the guy gets a gun pointed right at him at point blank for ten minutes. Can you imagine what that feels like? Whatever happens before of after that, that guy is going to be permanently affected by that.

Absolutely terrifying and its one majorly fucked up society where that can happen. As you could probably guess I'm not exactly backward about coming forwards when challenged by any authority... that is except when in the US. Any interaction where there is a possibility of interaction with a cop is yes sir ,no sir, how high do you want me to jump sir.

Also yer man doesn't strike me as being in the least bit traumatised by the stop.

[Strewelpeter]

Well.considering I don't have a Shrewsbury it's worth fuck all and you completely missed the point

Bah! I said Shrewsbury when I meant Ailsbury There are hundreds of thousands of Ailsbury and just three Shrewsburys

[Dice75]

Also yer man doesn't strike me as being in the least bit traumatised by the stop.

SPOILER

[dobby]

Bah! I said Shrewsbury when I meant Ailsbury There are hundreds of thousands of Ailsbury and just three Shrewsburys

Yes. Well done, now you're catching on. And if someone manages to get a Shrewsbury I would like to split the 10k prize with them.

[dobby]

Season starts the weekend. Jose Will win something but style of play leaves me flat.

Probably league cup

[SatNav]

I tried to reg for killarney ladies event tonight couldn't as it had me blocked for some reason. Went to acc details. I was down as male. Contacted support they changed me to a female, transgender whatever.... Went onto to ship said event.

Giddy up. Main event and ladies seat locked up
Who said wimmin didn't gambol

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[ghostface]

Hard knocks starts again tonight.

Didn't realise Last Chance U was available.

That coach is some cunt. Looking forward to hard knocks to see how Winston comes off