what would you do?

[Tig]

played this hand down in the fitz tonight and wondering what would you do in this situation. I dont know how to write poker hand histories properly so bare with me. Stack sizes are approx

playing 8 handed, €1/2.

I'm sitting with €160 and dealt AA in cut-off. 1 limper, I raise to €7 and get 4 callers (3 behind me + button).

So flop comes KQ10

Its checked around to me and I decide to bet €15 into the €35 pot. Button folds

Guy in the SB (€500), who has only played a few hands calls.

Guy in the BB (€150) who just sat down at the table bumps it up to €45.

Guy to my right folds.

I decide to call.

SB bombs the pot with about €200, BB calls.

What would you do?

[Downtown]

You have to call now with the pot odds. All your draws are to the nuts.

[eamonhonda]

Calling all day.

[Starvin Marvin]

Drawing dead to Jd9d.

Closer than people think.

Maybe save the 108 for a better spot.

[eamonhonda]

Drawing dead to Jd9d.

Closer than people think.

Maybe save the 108 for a better spot.

1 combo. At a guess I'd imagine odds still in your favour

[tglynn]

get up on my feet and let go of every excuse

[Morihei]

played this hand down in the fitz tonight and wondering what would you do in this situation. I dont know how to write poker hand histories properly so bare with me. Stack sizes are approx

playing 8 handed, €1/2.

I'm sitting with €160 and dealt AA in cut-off. 1 limper, I raise to €7 and get 4 callers (3 behind me + button).

So flop comes KQ10

Its checked around to me and I decide to bet €15 into the €35 pot. Button folds

Guy in the SB (€500), who has only played a few hands calls.

Guy in the BB (€150) who just sat down at the table bumps it up to €45.

Guy to my right folds.

I decide to call.

SB bombs the pot with about €200, BB calls.

What would you do?

Not this.

[pokerhand]

played this hand down in the fitz tonight and wondering what would you do in this situation. I dont know how to write poker hand histories properly so bare with me. Stack sizes are approx

playing 8 handed, €1/2.

I'm sitting with €160 and dealt AA in cut-off. 1 limper, I raise to €7 and get 4 callers (3 behind me + button).

So flop comes KQ10

Its checked around to me and I decide to bet €15 into the €35 pot. Button folds

Guy in the SB (€500), who has only played a few hands calls.

Guy in the BB (€150) who just sat down at the table bumps it up to €45.

Guy to my right folds.

I decide to call.

SB bombs the pot with about €200, BB calls.

What would you do?

It is uncanny as that was exact same hand and board spread I had in the PP IWF. I ended up calling in the IWF and got shown the door in 1 minute. The SB in my case had the flush and I couldn't improve on my AA flush draw.

Sometimes these a gut shot, but in future I would fold. However there is too much money in the pot in your case, so I would very reculantly call knowing I was beaten but praying for that hail Mary card

[premierstone]

It is uncanny as that was exact same hand and board spread I had in the PP IWF. I ended up calling in the IWF and got shown the door in 1 minute. The SB in my case had the flush and I couldn't improve on my AA flush draw.

Sometimes these a gut shot, but in future I would fold. However there is too much money in the pot in your case, so I would very reculantly call knowing I was beaten but praying for that hail Mary card

I think there is a huge difference between a freezeout tournament and a live Cash table, in a tournie your tournament life is paramount and everything after that is seconday.

In a million year's in not folding this in a cash game.

[Arazi]

Stack sizing makes it a call all day long.

[GaryT]

Bigger pre. In the fitz just always pot it pre with big hands. Probably doesn't make that big a difference to the number of players. But might make it 3 or 4 way instead of 5 some of the time while also getting more money in when your obviously ahead.


Here you have to call it off as played. Your equity is surprisingly good 3 ways as well. Even giving them pretty much all 2pair+ hands here including the majority of flushes and all straights. Getting over 3:1 its a call.

[Guest]

Decided just to put this into pokerstove for the fun of it. Decided to give player 2 only flushes and player 3 every other combo ie sets, flushes, any Jdx hand and straights.

Your equity is 24.27%

Player 2 49.9%

Player 3 25.8%

So there is 362e in the pot before you call so you need to be getting better than 24.27% to make the call and you're getting 29.8% on your money so guess its a fold???

[GaryT]

Decided just to put this into pokerstove for the fun of it. Decided to give player 2 only flushes and player 3 every other combo ie sets, flushes, any Jdx hand and straights.

Your equity is 24.27%

Player 2 49.9%

Player 3 25.8%

So there is 362e in the pot before you call so you need to be getting better than 24.27% to make the call and you're getting 29.8% on your money so guess its a fold???

IMO your ranges are way too tight. I don't think anybody is folding 2 pair on this board in the fitz. Even hands like KxJd are getting it in I'd expect. They also don't have every flush as They aren't going to call with for example 72dd pre. It is the fitz actually so anything is possible I guess.

But the SB who hasn't played many hands I gave him. I think this even has too many flushes as if he hasn't played many hands is he peeling suited gappers and very small SC? TT,AJs,AJo,KQs,KQo,J9s,J9o,J8dd,J7dd,98dd,97dd,96d d,87dd,86dd,85dd,76dd,75dd65dd, 64dd, 45dd.

BB I gave him pretty similar range just kept all 2 pair combos in and a few more small diamonds.

Against these ranges we have 35% P2 39% and P3 25%

It's the fitz.Majority aren't capable of folding 2 pair here in my experience.

[Guest]

IMO your ranges are way too tight. I don't think anybody is folding 2 pair on this board in the fitz. Even hands like KxJd are getting it in I'd expect. They also don't have every flush as They aren't going to call with for example 72dd pre. It is the fitz actually so anything is possible I guess.

But the SB who hasn't played many hands I gave him. I think this even has too many flushes as if he hasn't played many hands is he peeling suited gappers and very small SC? TT,AJs,AJo,KQs,KQo,J9s,J9o,J8dd,J7dd,98dd,97dd,96d d,87dd,86dd,85dd,76dd,75dd65dd, 64dd, 45dd.

BB I gave him pretty similar range just kept all 2 pair combos in and a few more small diamonds.

Against these ranges we have 35% P2 39% and P3 25%

It's the fitz.Majority aren't capable of folding 2 pair here in my experience.

I'm not sure at all, I was just making a general assumption, however if your logic suggests they won't fold 2 pair on this flop then they probably won't fold anything suited maybe with the exception of 72, 82, 83 and a couple more I guess so true answer probably lies somewhere in between both our figures. So maybe its very close

[pokerhand]

I think there is a huge difference between a freezeout tournament and a live Cash table, in a tournie your tournament life is paramount and everything after that is seconday.

In a million year's in not folding this in a cash game.

So you saying u would fold this every time in a tourney?

[premierstone]

So you saying u would fold this every time in a tourney?

No no, but there are far more dynamics in play and its a much tougher decision - but in a cash game its a no brainer to me.

[Downtown]

It is uncanny as that was exact same hand and board spread I had in the PP IWF. I ended up calling in the IWF and got shown the door in 1 minute. The SB in my case had the flush and I couldn't improve on my AA flush draw.

Sometimes these a gut shot, but in future I would fold. However there is too much money in the pot in your case, so I would very reculantly call knowing I was beaten but praying for that hail Mary card

So you saying u would fold this every time in a tourney?

It doesn't really work like that. You can't just say is this a fold in a tourney or not. It depends on stack sizes of not only you but of your opponents. It sounds like you should of folded in the IWF assuming it was the 1st level and you would of had 15k in chips, roughly 150 big blinds. You just weren't getting the right price. That's not to say that it's never correct to call on a same board and same action in future pots. Again all depending (mostly) on stack sizes relative to the big blind.

In the op example, he has left himself with 50bigs if he folds. Most likely the game plays a lot a bigger as well. €100 is a short stack in this game. The fact that he can reload vs tourney life debate doesn't really enter this example.

[Tig]

Thanks for the replies.

I did call in the end after working out my odds and outs. I knew I was behind to both players. I initially thought one had a straight, and thought the other had a set (but that wouldn't have made sense preflop). I did think that one might hold the J9d, but the likely hood of someone flopping a straight flush is pretty small. I definitely made a mistake with my initial reraise, I rushed it and never took into account the extra bb before me. If I had I would have raised to at least €10 maybe €12, but I also knew how loose the table was and that they would have called anyway.

SB held J9
BB held AJ

Board ran out Kx10x

Pretty sick but happy with my call after I put it into poker stove when I got home.

On a bad run ATM,

Last two cash games have seen my QQ<AJ, QQ<JJ, KK<J9 and this hand.

Maybe 2013 will bring a rush

[pokerhand]

It doesn't really work like that. You can't just say is this a fold in a tourney or not. It depends on stack sizes of not only you but of your opponents. It sounds like you should of folded in the IWF assuming it was the 1st level and you would of had 15k in chips, roughly 150 big blinds. You just weren't getting the right price. That's not to say that it's never correct to call on a same board and same action in future pots. Again all depending (mostly) on stack sizes relative to the big blind.

In the op example, he has left himself with 50bigs if he folds. Most likely the game plays a lot a bigger as well. €100 is a short stack in this game. The fact that he can reload vs tourney life debate doesn't really enter this example.

I know that... In the IWF I was still a bit drunk at the time from a wedding the night before. A factor at the time was that if I hit the turn or river I would be nicely positioned to play LAG or TAG depending on the table play. which is nice strategy in early competition... At the time I was 40ish BB if I remember correctly. Anyway I was actually kinda happy to be out as I was dying for sleep!

[Denny Crane]

People's ranges for getting it in here in the fitz are always going to be wider than you think. Raise more too obv.

[DaKlowen]

Guy in the BB (€150) who just sat down at the table bumps it up to €45.

Guy to my right folds.

What would you do?

I ship the flop

[RobotUnicorn]

The day I fold this spot with that stack and that money already in the middle is the day I never play poker again.

[AndyFatBastard]

More pre, more on flop, get them in and run better.

[lowkicker]

+500