Quick ethics question.

[Carl_Morrissey]

Myself and a poker friend of mine discussed a situation like this, note the hand in question is completely imaginary just want to get a general consensus on this.

You're in a live tourney with 50 players paid (52 remain) with 15 big blinds and you have AsQs and raise the button 3.5x and the bb calls.

Flop comes KhQs7d.
Buton open shhoves, putting your stack at risk.

Do you?
a) Draw attention to the two Qs in the deck immediately rendering the hand a miss deal.
b) Call, see if your hand is best at the river and hope to double up without anyone noticing the mistake (Obviously if you're beat you will draw attention to it).

[Crow]

100% bring attention to the Q

It'll also get you out of a tricky spot

If you do call and win the hand, would you carry on playing knowing the deck is messed up

[Lurker23]

(a)

[tylerdurden94]

Myself and a poker friend of mine discussed a situation like this, note the hand in question is completely imaginary just want to get a general consensus on this.

You're in a live tourney with 50 players paid (52 remain) with 15 big blinds and you have AsQs and raise the button 3.5x and the bb calls.

Flop comes KhQs7d.
Buton open shhoves, putting your stack at risk.

Do you?
a) Draw attention to the two Qs in the deck immediately rendering the hand a miss deal.
b) Call, see if your hand is best at the river and hope to double up without anyone noticing the mistake (Obviously if you're beat you will draw attention to it).

Bring it to attention of the TD that there is a problem with the deck.

[Carl_Morrissey]

These are the kinda sub questions that arose, I mean nobody noticing the extra Qs your essentially freerolling to a double up because when your beat/get drawn out on you can just point it out and play dumb.

As far as the deck being messed up I guess playing on until a the Qs is shown down or shown on the board, then give the "wait a second, I had the Qs" speech, which would not take too long.

For the record I think would point it out immediately.

[ghostface]

(a) without a doubt.

How about a few hands later and a Qs pops out on the river to knock you out, would you pipe up then that you knew there was 2 Qs? Actually I would love to see someone try and explain that

[Carl_Morrissey]

(a) without a doubt.

How about a few hands later and a Qs pops out on the river to knock you out, would you pipe up then that you knew there was 2 Qs? Actually I would love to see someone try and explain that

I'd give the "this might sound silly, but I think I may have seen a 2nd Qs. Any chance we can check the deck before I go?"

[Strewelpeter]

You spot that the deck is wrong you call it. Nothing else is relevant, doesn't matter if its the FT bubble of the WSOP and there are two shorties all in ahead of you you always call it.

[BallymoreChris]

You spot that the deck is wrong you call it. Nothing else is relevant, doesn't matter if its the FT bubble of the WSOP and there are two shorties all in ahead of you you always call it.

Ehh yeah......


If your not cheating your not trying hard enough!!

[Keane]

Obv a, I can't see why you would need anyone else's opinion on this, there's no question whatsoever.

[NuckChorris]

You spot that the deck is wrong you call it. Nothing else is relevant, doesn't matter if its the FT bubble of the WSOP and there are two shorties all in ahead of you you always call it.

I think if the question was, "You're on the bubble of the November Nine in the WSOP. Two shorties shove all in ahead of you and get called by the big stack. You look down at 4s4s and haven't shown it to the pocketcam yet. Do you

(a) Quickly fold your hand without the cam seeing and start dreaming of the sponsorships and coming back in November to a whole new world (the deck will be thrown away after the hand is over surely)

(b) Immediately explain to the dealer that it's a bum deal and show your cards

(c) Smile, laugh a little, show your cards slowly and deliberately to the pocketcam and fold. Then wait for all hell to break loose after the game and forever be "that guy" "?,

then the answers might not all be so moral!!

[Carl_Morrissey]

Obv a, I can't see why you would need anyone else's opinion on this, there's no question whatsoever.

There seems to be lots of differing opinions, nice grey area.

I think if the question was, "You're on the bubble of the November Nine in the WSOP. Two shorties shove all in ahead of you and get called by the big stack. You look down at 4s4s and haven't shown it to the pocketcam yet. Do you

(a) Quickly fold your hand without the cam seeing and start dreaming of the sponsorships and coming back in November to a whole new world (the deck will be thrown away after the hand is over surely)

(b) Immediately explain to the dealer that it's a bum deal and show your cards

(c) Smile, laugh a little, show your cards slowly and deliberately to the pocketcam and fold. Then wait for all hell to break loose after the game and forever be "that guy" "?,

then the answers might not all be so moral!!

100% a

[Keane]

There seems to be lots of differing opinions, nice grey area.

Nobody's said anything but "a" so far

[Carl_Morrissey]

Nobody's said anything but "a" so far

My sorry attempt at sarcasm

[Keane]

Ah...

[peterswellman]

I think if the question was, "You're on the bubble of the November Nine in the WSOP. Two shorties shove all in ahead of you and get called by the big stack. You look down at 4s4s and haven't shown it to the pocketcam yet. Do you

(a) Quickly fold your hand without the cam seeing and start dreaming of the sponsorships and coming back in November to a whole new world (the deck will be thrown away after the hand is over surely)

(b) Immediately explain to the dealer that it's a bum deal and show your cards

(c) Smile, laugh a little, show your cards slowly and deliberately to the pocketcam and fold. Then wait for all hell to break loose after the game and forever be "that guy" "?,

then the answers might not all be so moral!!

Say the big stack ships, do you fold QQ, KK or even AA? Ignoring ethics for a second.

[NuckChorris]

Say the big stack ships, do you fold QQ, KK or even AA? Ignoring ethics for a second.

Would love to say I'd play the aces, fold QQ and KK would be a tough call - but think with the money involved and guaranteeing a player going out I'd fold aces and walk off.

[JP Poker]

100% A but it's not a misdeal !! As significant action has taken place.

The 2nd Qs will be treated as a piece of paper much the same as if a card is face up in the pack.

If you decide to play the hand and not inform the dealer/TD on showdown your hand will be dead and you may incur a penalty.

[Donkathon]

100% A but it's not a misdeal !! As significant action has taken place

But what if the player on the flop brought it to the attention on the td that a second Qs is on the flop how can you treat it as a box card without giving a huge advantage to the other players as now they know 100% that he has a Qs in his hand?

surely after the flop is out and the td is informed the pot would be counted back and returned to players who invested?

The only way I can see this not being a missdeal is if both were all in pre and the second Qs came out, then there would be grounds to treat is as a box card

[JP Poker]

But what if the player on the flop brought it to the attention on the td that a second Qs is on the flop how can you treat it as a box card without giving a huge advantage to the other players as now they know 100% that he has a Qs in his hand?

surely after the flop is out and the td is informed the pot would be counted back and returned to players who invested?

The only way I can see this not being a missdeal is if both were all in pre and the second Qs came out, then there would be grounds to treat is as a box card

I've only heard of this happening once before as explained in OP. The ruling given was that the 2nd Qs was replaced and the action was frozen as if both players were all-in for the exact reason that you gave. Which is fair IMO.