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Old 12-03-12, 04:04   #1
Hectorjelly
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Shove or Check

Simple hand. I 3 bet an utg raiser with QQ. Flop is KKQ. Utg leads out into 4 people, I call. Turn blank and he check raises me, I call. River is a F*cking K. He checks. There's $30 left to go in. Pot is $40

No idea about the player, but from the timing and bet sizing I was fairly sure he had a great hand.
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Old 12-03-12, 04:21   #2
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if you think hes strong there's a case for checking behind, then again you have the third nuts. Think you're good here more often then not. He would c/r flop with a King most likely instead of donking out. Also you'd think he'd bet the river after showing aggression on 2 streets. Really all over the place. Get it in IMO.
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Old 12-03-12, 04:50   #3
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Its not just that I have the third nuts, look at the hand

the board is KKKQx. What can he call me with? I call a bet on the flop, call his check raise on the turn. The only conceivable hand I can have either a King, a Queen or TJ if i've gone a little crazy.

What can he call me with? Does he ever show up with worse than aces?
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Old 12-03-12, 05:34   #4
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His line is very strange. There's definitely no value in betting here. He has a king or air only imo and air doesn't call. I'd be very interested in seeing his hand for info.

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Originally Posted by Hectorjelly View Post
Its not just that I have the third nuts, look at the hand

the board is KKKQx. What can he call me with? I call a bet on the flop, call his check raise on the turn. The only conceivable hand I can have either a King, a Queen or TJ if i've gone a little crazy.

What can he call me with? Does he ever show up with worse than aces?
I don't see why he would ever have AA and take this line for value. What's your calling range to his c/r OTT?
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Old 12-03-12, 05:53   #5
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I sigh and check back. Nothing to gain from betting imo.

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if you think hes strong there's a case for checking behind, then again you have the third nuts. Think you're good here more often then not
The fact that we have the 3rd nuts means nothing. Even if we are good 99% of the time, there's still no point in betting if he never calls worse.
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Old 12-03-12, 05:55   #6
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Originally Posted by Caf View Post

I don't see why he would ever have AA and take this line for value. What's your calling range to his c/r OTT?
I don't know why he would take this line with AA, I just mentioned it as it has now overtaken me, and also is the only other hand that beats me other than a K.
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Old 12-03-12, 06:09   #7
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easiest check back ever, he's got air alot i bet but it doesnt matter. and i dont expect him to have aces or kings (btw i hate his river ck if he has a k)
that often but the times he does we're snapped obv.

cannot see how we can ever ever be called by a worse hand here so there's absolutely no point in betting imo. classic case of 'only getting called by a hand that beats us'. (in this case we might be chopping the odd time obv)
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Old 12-03-12, 06:20   #8
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Agree with the check back. Is he ever calling with ace high here? Are you gonna get him off a queen? Both no imo check back and scoop the loots chop it or lose the least.
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Old 12-03-12, 07:02   #9
Hectorjelly
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Yeah, annoyingly his check on the river confused me and I decided to shove. He had AK. I actually got abused in the chat for how bad my shove was, which was correct (the abuse) if a little infuriating.

Checking back in spots like this also has the added advantage to tilting your opponents.
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Old 13-03-12, 10:11   #10
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I always turn chat off or hide it. Leaving chat on always has a -EV effect on my tilting!
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Old 13-03-12, 17:13   #11
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I always turn chat off or hide it. Leaving chat on always has a -EV effect on my tilting!
I've tilted properly once in about a year, it cost me 2 buy ins. (Actually probably only about 1 in equity). I remember the days where tilt was almost a daily occurrence. Ahh the follies of youth!
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Old 13-03-12, 19:11   #12
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Yeah it's an easy check. Surprised you shoved.

What were your reasons for doing so at the time?
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Old 13-03-12, 19:21   #13
Hectorjelly
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Yeah it's an easy check. Surprised you shoved.

What were your reasons for doing so at the time?
Well I'm an idiot sometimes would be the main one. I fell into the trap of not reevaluating the strength of my hand (something which I'm normally really good at). His check confused me - I thought it was stupid to check a king and didn't think he would. I didn't really think about his calling range until I shoved. My plan was to shove the river before, had my plan been to check the river I would have checked (obv with different hand). That's the problem with multitabling, occasionally you make a few mistakes. I've open folded 99 twice today
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Old 13-03-12, 19:24   #14
The Aul Switcharoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hectorjelly View Post
Simple hand. I 3 bet an utg raiser with QQ. Flop is KKQ. Utg leads out into 4 people, I call. Turn blank and he check raises me, I call. River is a F*cking K. He checks. There's $30 left to go in. Pot is $40

No idea about the player, but from the timing and bet sizing I was fairly sure he had a great hand.
4bet the turn. From the action on the flop and turn and the fact he's UTG I would be fairly sure he'd have a king and gonna stack off

Obvious dumb river shove as you know yourself. Everyone has a brainfart
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Old 13-03-12, 20:06   #15
Hectorjelly
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4bet the turn. From the action on the flop and turn and the fact he's UTG I would be fairly sure he'd have a king and gonna stack off

Obvious dumb river shove as you know yourself. Everyone has a brainfart
no 4betting the turn is as bad as shoving the river, maybe worse.

There is no point whatsoever in 4 betting the turn. It doesn't matter if we think he has a king and will stack off, if he has a king he is going to stack off here no matter what we do. There's less than a pot sized bet to go in and he's out of position. If we 4bet we just fold out his bluffs. He also has the initiative. There is no upside to 3betting here. (also its a 3bet not a 4 bet, since he check raised)

Last edited by Hectorjelly; 13-03-12 at 20:27.
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