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    Originally posted by Mike View Post
    thats it...

    You have reached a page at PokerStars™ which no longer exists. Visit our homepage or the sitemap to find the page you're looking for.


    basic calc there for how much you levels you could reach
    In essence, about 15 hours a week 4 tabling 50NL to get silverstar (750VPPs/month).

    Adjust for yourself from there.
    May you live in interesting times!

    Comment


      Thoughts about this line?

      Is betting the river too thin?
      I checked with the intention of calling any bet

      Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      Hero (MP) ($25)
      UTG ($28.89)
      Button ($25.42)
      BB ($20.29)
      SB ($27.41)
      CO ($28.19)

      Preflop: Hero is MP with J, J
      1 fold, Hero bets $0.75, CO calls $0.75, Button calls $0.75, 1 fold, BB calls $0.50

      Flop: ($3.10) 2, 7, 10 (4 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $2.95, CO calls $2.95, 1 fold, BB calls $2.95

      Turn: ($11.95) 9 (3 players)
      BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $8.52, 1 fold, Hero calls $8.52

      River: ($28.99) 5 (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO checks

      Total pot: $28.99

      Comment


        Originally posted by TommyGunne View Post


        I jam for 16k and think the OB is fine, but should have made it like 8k or so. Anyone tell me I'm retarded?
        It depends what level you think the villain is on imo if you are going to make this play. To me the massive over bet would mean that you didnt have a 10 simply because there are a lot of 8's and flushes in villains range and you would want to squeeze out some value not push it away

        unless thats what you wanted to make it look like

        unless thats what you wanted the villain to think thats what you wanted to make it look like

        my head hurts - if you get the levels right its a great play if you get them wrong you look a bit silly but meh

        Comment


          has anyone called an overbet shove on the river at 200nl on ipoker lately that hasn't been a bluff?
          Last edited by Denny Crane; 14-07-10, 22:03.

          Comment


            I really doubt people balance here much, its nearly always a nut hand.

            Comment


              Originally posted by phantom_lord View Post
              has anyone called an overbet shove on the river at 200nl on ipoker lately that hasn't been a bluff?
              Well if they're from me they're always bluffs. People tend to do it in the most retarded spots though.
              Foldaramus et foldarabimus

              Comment


                Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                It depends what level you think the villain is on imo if you are going to make this play. To me the massive over bet would mean that you didnt have a 10 simply because there are a lot of 8's and flushes in villains range and you would want to squeeze out some value not push it away

                unless thats what you wanted to make it look like

                unless thats what you wanted the villain to think thats what you wanted to make it look like

                my head hurts - if you get the levels right its a great play if you get them wrong you look a bit silly but meh
                It was more along the lines of:

                1) I obv have nuts in my range
                2) He doesn't have nuts in his range
                3) I have a lot of hands that I can't value bet. There are a lot of aces there and small flushes. I never have the K high flush here anyway I think. I guess I can sometimes have another hand that is worse than an ace, but its not very often.

                Cos I can have nuts, he can't, and I have a decent amount of hands that I want to bluff with in comparison to the value hands I can bet, I can afford to bet a lot more than pot.

                The reason I posted it though is because if I'm overbetting, I need to have a fair bit of air in my range, and the air I can have is mostly me turning medium strength hands into bluffs that I might be able to check back with. So I'm faced with a choice of strategies of overbetting and turning loads of medium hands into bluffs, or betting small with a slightly wider value range and not bluffing so much.

                I'm really not sure which is better.

                If I was playing villain again in the same spot, I know that betting smaller and wider for value here is better, but against a person with limited reads, but I know they are competent, I'm not sure what my line is. Thinking it over, given that I have to turn loads of hands I could probably check back profitably, or even bet small with profitably, into bluffs. If I thought I had more airballs in my range and not so many decent strength hands, then I could OB, but looking back I think overbetting here makes me a bit messed up when I have small flushes and 8s.
                Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                Comment


                  KK > 200bb deep v mega fish

                  Thoughts on this line please. Villain is a huge mega donk fish playing 79/64/2.1 over 100 hands. he has a 3bet of 42 and has gone to showdown 68% being absolutely blessed to win 42%. He doesnt fold to flop c-bets or turn barrels and when he is doing his own betting he bets small with a good hand and big with air marginal hands

                  Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                  SB ($47.57)
                  Hero (BB) ($89.15)
                  UTG ($25)
                  MP ($54.40)
                  Button ($25)

                  Preflop: Hero is BB with K, K
                  1 fold, MP bets $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises $2.25, MP calls $2

                  Flop: ($5.10) 5, 8, J (2 players)
                  Hero bets $3.63, MP calls $3.63

                  Turn: ($12.36) 3 (2 players)
                  Hero bets $8.81, MP calls $8.81

                  River: ($29.98) 5 (2 players)
                  Hero checks, MP bets $21.36,

                  Hero wants to ship but might just call because Im a vagina

                  Comment


                    More on flop and turn so you can shove river for < pot. Don't like checking the river at all. Losing a ton of value. After you 3b and bet flop and turn he's gonna check back too much.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by zuutroy View Post
                      More on flop and turn so you can shove river for < pot. Don't like checking the river at all. Losing a ton of value. After you 3b and bet flop and turn he's gonna check back too much.
                      yeah my bet sizing was poor - it was a speed table and I was trying to work out bet sizes to get 3 streets of value.

                      This particular villain is not checking behind when checked to on teh river
                      Last edited by Bubbleking; 16-07-10, 10:35.

                      Comment


                        3bet bigger too, his calling range should be pretty inelastic

                        Comment


                          Do people here take shots much at higher stakes and what has their success being like? Say taking a shot at good games when you have 15buyins for it. Was just filtering HEM and looking at my WR when playing my most regular stakes of 200nl to 400nl is pretty solid but its when I take shots that it alawys goes wrong. Down a nice chunk from playing 3/6 and higher.

                          Last edited by digiman; 17-07-10, 10:47.

                          Comment


                            ugh jesus I clicked open a poker theory thread!
                            'Mental Toughness is doing the right thing for the team when it's not the best thing for you' - Bill Belichick

                            Comment


                              I have a question on taking notes on players

                              basically what sort of stuff should I be noting??

                              I never take notes so its something I want to start doing but dunno where to start. tyty

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                I have a question on taking notes on players

                                basically what sort of stuff should I be noting??

                                I never take notes so its something I want to start doing but dunno where to start. tyty
                                I have two different approaches to this, first with guys who I put in a lot of hands against, and second against guys who I don't play against much.

                                Against players on bigger sites, in tourneys, or against guys you haven't come across before, just take detailed notes in shorthand of exactly how pots played out when they are of importance. Its even important to take note of a hand played really standardly. Its important not to let bias enter, and just write them down as fact.

                                Here's one I made earlier:
                                "3b A5cc on Btn vs 18/14 CO to 21 from 7. 26 into 45 on 239r w/ 1 club. 58 into 97 Qr turn. 124ai into 213 K riv"

                                Takes 2 secs to right.

                                I don't know if the guy is actually good or not, but from the note I took I can take some good info. Its only one hand though, so I can't really infer too much. He probably didn't make any mistakes in it, but the only thing I might infer is that he mightn't have as many suited aces in his calling range on the btn vs lp opens, but I can't completely come to that conclusion. He might be good, mediocre, or bad, but I dunno yet.

                                Against guys who I've played with lots, I'll have a general idea of leaks, tendencies or whatever against them. I'm not going to go into the types of notes I have on regs, but if you play a lot of hands against someone, you should have a very good idea on some leaks and tendencies of theirs, and if you don't, they probably have edge on you. You should at least have gone over all their big hands in your DB, and see if you can see anything weird, and if not, it might be a good idea to just try play as close to GTO against them as you can, but again, that should be part of your notes. A thorough look through stats is obv necessary, but standardish stats may hide the misuse of some hands in the wrong spots, messing up their ranges a little, and it mightn't show betsizing issues, which can alter your strategy against someone, and these only show up in thorough looks through your DB.

                                But until you've had a v good look at an opponent, just take detailed notes of hands. You can probably get some opinions on him immediately, but be very careful, as it is very easy to fool yourself about tendencies in the short run, and once you form an opinion, it can often be difficult to break, hence why I don't like writing down opinions on a player till I'm quite confident in them. Means you can change your mind more easily.
                                Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                                Comment


                                  ^^^^

                                  Brilliant thanks if I could than a post x10 I would. That really is great stuff Conor

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                    ^^^^

                                    Brilliant thanks if I could than a post x10 I would. That really is great stuff Conor
                                    I don't even know if its a good way to do it, find what way you work best with and go with that I reckon. Just don't take notes like: "weak", "aggro", "fish". They mean nothing. Guys who play more or higher would probably be able to explain a better way to do it.
                                    Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                                    Comment


                                      ok started taking notes today and it has been invaluable! at the very least it gives me something to do when Im not in a hand (im back to playing 2 tables instead of 4/6). It also really shows the mistakes that some players are making and how they can be exploited.

                                      so taking tommygunne's advice this is an example of what iv been writing

                                      - called a raise with J8 off and stacked off on river on a board of 10 9 10 6 7 board
                                      - called a raise with Q9 and stacked off on a Q J 10 7 J board
                                      - called a massive overbet lead and turn barrel with QJo on a Qd 9d 10s Ad Kc board to chop v flopped straight

                                      - stacks off light

                                      - called with KK pre and overbet jammed flop c-bet on a 8h 7h 7s flop
                                      - called a raise in the SB with 33 and called 3 streets (DIDNT RAISE) on a Jh 3 9 Kh 10h board and lost to my KQ

                                      - seems to slow play in bad spots

                                      Basically I take a couple of notes and If a pattern develops then I make an assumption such as "stacks off light". Il try keep up with this system for awhile and see how i get on.

                                      oh and in case people are wondering the above is from 25nl (LOL micros)

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                        ok started taking notes today and it has been invaluable! at the very least it gives me something to do when Im not in a hand (im back to playing 2 tables instead of 4/6). It also really shows the mistakes that some players are making and how they can be exploited.

                                        so taking tommygunne's advice this is an example of what iv been writing

                                        - called a raise with J8 off and stacked off on river on a board of 10 9 10 6 7 board
                                        - called a raise with Q9 and stacked off on a Q J 10 7 J board
                                        - called a massive overbet lead and turn barrel with QJo on a Qd 9d 10s Ad Kc board to chop v flopped straight

                                        - stacks off light

                                        - called with KK pre and overbet jammed flop c-bet on a 8h 7h 7s flop
                                        - called a raise in the SB with 33 and called 3 streets (DIDNT RAISE) on a Jh 3 9 Kh 10h board and lost to my KQ

                                        - seems to slow play in bad spots

                                        Basically I take a couple of notes and If a pattern develops then I make an assumption such as "stacks off light". Il try keep up with this system for awhile and see how i get on.

                                        oh and in case people are wondering the above is from 25nl (LOL micros)

                                        Just to add a bit more to TG excellent post. Notes aren't bad but it's important to get more details. For example in the first 3 notes you have no real notes on how the previous streets were played which is really important. Did he call a pot size bet on flop or was it a 1/2 pot bet etc. Obviously knowing all this can give you a much better read on some and then you can act accordingly. If he calls pots bets with gutters then you can easily value town him etc.

                                        Here's a note I have on a player who's a semi reg.

                                        I OR As5s, 4 way flop, I cbet $5 into $8.50 pot on Th6s4s flop, folded to villain who m/r, I ship and he folds with 40bb left.

                                        Regularly enough I go through my DB and look at players who I have over 1k hands with and look at all showdown and non show down hands and take notes. I'll filter when they've stolen blinds, 3bet, open raise in EP, MP, LP etc. With people who I have a lot of info on I break my notes down into pre flop, post-flop, and 3bet pots. Here's stuff I have on a reg..

                                        pre flop: (10h) raises 7xbb in CO with 1 limper with K's. OR K's UTG+1 to 4xbb. Completes 8's in SB after BTN OL.(10h) OR's AKo 4bb in UTg+1. OR A's UTG+1 to 4xbb. OR 8's in the CO 3xbb. Has OR 3xbb in MP3, HJ, CO and BTN.
                                        Post flop: (10h) HU flop, raises $3 cbet to $8.50 on 9cQsJh flop with td8d. 3 way on flop, donks out $4.68($6.25) from BB with flopped set on 7c6cJh brd. (10h) lmpd pot 3way, bets $2.50($2p) with top set
                                        3bet: (10h) Flats KsKc UTg+1 to my SB 3bet. chks back Td2d6d flop, raises my $6.50 turn lead to $19.50 on Qc, stacks off.
                                        (10h) 3bets my CO open OTB with A2o.(10h), 17/6(29% AS) OR CO 3xbb, 31/19 calls BTN. Villain 3bets to $6.50 in BB, CO flds, BTN calls. cbets $6.50($14.50p) on Kc6h7d flop, BTN flds.
                                        I use short hand to help with space and it makes typing quicker. Since I play full ring but start tables I include the number of players at the table(well if It's over 7 players I just call it 10handed). OR= Open raise, OL= open limper, MR= min raise. AS TG said note taking will help give you lots of stuff a HUD can't and will really help spot leaks better. I don't have many on this reg, but already it's interesting to note that IP against my CO raise he 3bets to $6.50 while also using the same raise size when squeezing 2 players OOP. Hopefully as I get more hands I can learn more and add to this, showdown hands are obviously golden information. My notes aren't perfect and I'm still trying to get it right but it's a start anyway.

                                        Comment


                                          I have this on my clip board when playing and paste it into HM notes vs every player I want to make a note on. I yoinked it off a LeggoPoker pro. Grogheadflow IIRC

                                          3Bets:
                                          4Bets:
                                          Sqz:
                                          Cbets:
                                          Donks:
                                          StraightDraws:
                                          FlushDraws:
                                          Limps:
                                          Flop:
                                          Turn:
                                          River:
                                          Other Notes:

                                          Comment


                                            Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                            ok started taking notes today and it has been invaluable! at the very least it gives me something to do when Im not in a hand (im back to playing 2 tables instead of 4/6). It also really shows the mistakes that some players are making and how they can be exploited.

                                            so taking tommygunne's advice this is an example of what iv been writing

                                            - called a raise with J8 off and stacked off on river on a board of 10 9 10 6 7 board
                                            - called a raise with Q9 and stacked off on a Q J 10 7 J board
                                            - called a massive overbet lead and turn barrel with QJo on a Qd 9d 10s Ad Kc board to chop v flopped straight

                                            - stacks off light

                                            - called with KK pre and overbet jammed flop c-bet on a 8h 7h 7s flop
                                            - called a raise in the SB with 33 and called 3 streets (DIDNT RAISE) on a Jh 3 9 Kh 10h board and lost to my KQ

                                            - seems to slow play in bad spots

                                            Basically I take a couple of notes and If a pattern develops then I make an assumption such as "stacks off light". Il try keep up with this system for awhile and see how i get on.

                                            oh and in case people are wondering the above is from 25nl (LOL micros)
                                            As Teddie says you can shorten those up to save time and make it handier to read quickly.
                                            Come up with your own shorthand but it saves writing essays and makes it handier to have a quick look in the middle of a hand.

                                            For example

                                            cld rse J8o, stack off T9T67

                                            cld pre KK, overbet jammed over cbet 778hh

                                            I instantly note if someone limps, or limp re-raises or does anything non standard as well and what hands they do it with.
                                            Last edited by Starvin Marvin; 19-07-10, 02:03.
                                            Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                                            I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                                            None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                                            Comment


                                              I've been losing a fortune with hands like this over the last month or so. Am I doing this wrong or what?

                                              Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                              BB ($129.65)
                                              UTG ($105.15)
                                              MP ($49)
                                              CO ($59.10)
                                              Button ($77.15)
                                              Hero (SB) ($51.15)

                                              Preflop: Hero is SB with 6, A
                                              2 folds, CO bets $1.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.25, 1 fold

                                              Flop: ($3.50) 5, 8, 9 (2 players)
                                              Hero checks, CO bets $2.50, Hero calls $2.50

                                              Turn: ($8.50) Q (2 players)
                                              Hero checks, CO bets $6.50, Hero raises to $20, CO calls $13.50

                                              River: ($48.50) 5 (2 players)
                                              Hero bets $27.15 (All-In), CO calls $27.15

                                              Total pot: $102.80 | Rake: $3

                                              Results:
                                              Hero had 6, A (one pair, fives).
                                              CO had K, K (two pair, Kings and fives).
                                              Outcome: CO won $99.80
                                              "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                                              Comment


                                                Fold pre, or else 3bet if he's stealing a lot. Calling suited Ace rags OOP is going to be a loser. Give it up on the river, once he calls the turn he's never folding.


                                                Does anyone know how I change my pop-ups for different stats? It allows me to change some but then others I can't change.
                                                Last edited by Teddie; 19-07-10, 23:04.

                                                Comment


                                                  Definitely fold that pre Andy - playing suited aces oop in a single raised pot is going to be a nightmare and generally -EV. Now if there was a raise and a call I have no problem overcalling because Axs performs well enough in a multi way pot (even better if your in the SB because the BB should come along for the spin with any 2 giving you more odds)

                                                  Comment


                                                    Also calling flop is the worst option.

                                                    Comment


                                                      I dont mind the river shove when you got there that way.

                                                      I 3bet/fold pre.
                                                      I c/r or lead the flop.

                                                      Comment


                                                        Originally posted by RoadSweeper View Post
                                                        I dont mind the river shove when you got there that way.

                                                        I 3bet/fold pre.
                                                        I c/r or lead the flop.
                                                        its a bit ambitious to get villain to fold better than TPTK - your giving him 3/1?

                                                        edit - on the river obv

                                                        Comment


                                                          I would prob make my bet sizing a bit different, but I think is okayish as it is.

                                                          If I raise the turn on this board I will jam most (all?) rivers. No doubt the 5 on the river is gay for our two pair hands, which makes it an awful card to bluff (or a great card). But I still think I jam it. We rep a very strong range, and if we haven't been acting the retard on the table, I think it is going to be hard for villain to call.

                                                          I think calling here with KK is prob bad in the long run.

                                                          Comment


                                                            Thin river call down?

                                                            villain is 35/18 I have notes on him that say
                                                            - raises every Btn that is limped into him
                                                            - bet 1/2 PSB on every street after he floped the nuts v fish on dry board


                                                            Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                            BB ($30.50)
                                                            Hero (SB) ($25.10)
                                                            UTG ($25.10)
                                                            MP ($14.09)
                                                            CO ($25)
                                                            Button ($25.25)

                                                            Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, 10
                                                            1 fold, MP calls $0.25, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.15, BB bets $0.75, MP calls $0.75, Hero calls $0.75

                                                            Flop: ($3) 10, 9, 9 (3 players)
                                                            Hero checks, BB checks, MP checks

                                                            Turn: ($3) 8 (3 players)
                                                            Hero checks, BB bets $1.42, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.42

                                                            River: ($5.84) 4 (2 players)
                                                            Hero checks, BB bets $5.55, Hero calls $5.55

                                                            Total pot: $16.94

                                                            Comment


                                                              Id lead the turn.
                                                              Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                                                              I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                                                              None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                                                              Comment


                                                                why did you limp QTs? You should definitely be opening that there from the CO!

                                                                I think you can call turn, as he will now bet all his Overcard + FDs, but I think you're beat an awful lot on the river by the cards + action.

                                                                You need to be good here > 30% for it to be a good call, and I just don't think you are...

                                                                Comment


                                                                  Raise yourself BK.

                                                                  I don't think you're good much on the river. I'd expect to see backdoor clubs here a lot.

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    Originally posted by emmet02 View Post
                                                                    why did you limp QTs? You should definitely be opening that there from the CO!

                                                                    I think you can call turn, as he will now bet all his Overcard + FDs, but I think you're beat an awful lot on the river by the cards + action.

                                                                    You need to be good here > 30% for it to be a good call, and I just don't think you are...
                                                                    He's the SB, I think completing after the limper here is fine pf, however I'm not sure how mad I am on calling when it gets back around though I guess you're getting 4/1.

                                                                    I'd also bet the turn. River is close, I'm not too sure what I'd do.

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      Originally posted by carlop View Post
                                                                      He's the SB, I think completing after the limper here is fine pf, however I'm not sure how mad I am on calling when it gets back around though I guess you're getting 4/1.

                                                                      I'd also bet the turn. River is close, I'm not too sure what I'd do.
                                                                      oops, reading comprehension fail

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        I think flatting is optimal pre but im open to correction. we have a hand that plays well multiway and Im oop. raising will only get a call from a hand that most likely dominates us

                                                                        Im sorry I didnt lead on the turn prob one of the mistakes I made in the hand

                                                                        his betsizing on the river is a bit off - A full PSB looks full of Sh!t and one of the main reasons I called

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          I bet turn and fold river as played. Not betting turn is a sizeable mistake IMO.

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            Running like shit this month, take a 5 day break, go back to Rush to finish clearing my mid year Iron Man bonus and this all happens with 8 minutes. Dont normally get this annoyed but im running so far below ev i want to cry. Computer straight off and back on the beer again, fml.


                                                                            This was the first, found it somewhat funny, had no idea why the pot was going his way for a second.

                                                                            No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                            saw flop | saw showdown

                                                                            BB ($452.50)
                                                                            UTG ($50)
                                                                            Hero (UTG+1) ($52.10)
                                                                            MP1 ($56.85)
                                                                            MP2 ($11.25)
                                                                            MP3 ($31.90)
                                                                            CO ($19.50)
                                                                            Button ($25.35)
                                                                            SB ($52.40)

                                                                            Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A, K
                                                                            1 fold, Hero bets $1.50, 1 fold, MP2 calls $1.50, 3 folds, SB calls $1.25, 1 fold

                                                                            Flop: ($5) 7, J, 9 (3 players)
                                                                            SB checks, Hero bets $3, MP2 calls $3, 1 fold

                                                                            Turn: ($11) J (2 players)
                                                                            Hero bets $10.75, MP2 calls $6.75 (All-In)

                                                                            River: ($24.50) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

                                                                            Total pot: $24.50

                                                                            Results:
                                                                            Hero had A, K (flush, Ace high).
                                                                            MP2 had 10, K (straight flush, Jack high).
                                                                            Outcome: MP2 won $23.30


                                                                            Got a tad annoyed at this one

                                                                            No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                            saw flop | saw showdown

                                                                            UTG+1 ($70.30)
                                                                            MP1 ($264.10)
                                                                            MP2 ($23.30)
                                                                            MP3 ($124.30)
                                                                            CO ($93.55)
                                                                            Hero (Button) ($50)
                                                                            SB ($40.10)
                                                                            BB ($17.35)
                                                                            UTG ($5.10)

                                                                            Preflop: Hero is Button with K, K
                                                                            3 folds, MP2 bets $1.50, MP3 calls $1.50, 1 fold, Hero raises $6.75, 2 folds, MP2 calls $5.25, MP3 calls $5.25

                                                                            Flop: ($21) 2, 7, 5 (3 players)
                                                                            MP2 bets $16.55 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero calls $16.55

                                                                            Turn: ($54.10) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

                                                                            River: ($54.10) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

                                                                            Total pot: $54.10

                                                                            Results:
                                                                            Hero had K, K (one pair, Kings).
                                                                            MP2 had J, A (two pair, Aces and Jacks).
                                                                            Outcome: MP2 won $51.40


                                                                            This fucking nit was 11/7, if ever there was a time to fold a set on a board like this this was prob it, he has AA 97% of the time obv.

                                                                            No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                            saw flop | saw showdown

                                                                            SB ($47.25)
                                                                            BB ($52.15)
                                                                            UTG ($50.25)
                                                                            UTG+1 ($20.30)
                                                                            MP1 ($57.35)
                                                                            MP2 ($100.75)
                                                                            MP3 ($32.95)
                                                                            CO ($97.10)
                                                                            Hero (Button) ($66.15)

                                                                            Preflop: Hero is Button with 2, 2
                                                                            UTG bets $1.50, 5 folds, Hero calls $1.50, 2 folds

                                                                            Flop: ($3.75) 5, 10, 2 (2 players)
                                                                            UTG bets $2, Hero calls $2

                                                                            Turn: ($7.75) 9 (2 players)
                                                                            UTG bets $4, Hero raises $12.25, UTG calls $8.25

                                                                            River: ($32.25) A (2 players)
                                                                            UTG checks, Hero bets $17, UTG raises $34.50 (All-In), Hero calls $17.50

                                                                            Total pot: $101.25

                                                                            Results:
                                                                            Hero had 2, 2 (three of a kind, twos).
                                                                            UTG had A, A (three of a kind, Aces).
                                                                            Outcome: UTG won $98.25
                                                                            Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                                                                            I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                                                                            None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              Originally posted by AndyFB View Post
                                                                              Anyone got recommendations for a place to play? I'm leaning towards Betfair at the moment given their great signup bonus and rakeback, how fishy it apparently is, and my high tolerance for bad software.

                                                                              I'll explore some other options though. Anyone playing on Cake or Entraction have anything good/bad to say about them?
                                                                              Bumping this as Betfair have moved to Ongame and frankly I don't want to play there. Anywhere but iPoker is my current stance.
                                                                              "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                Originally posted by AndyFB View Post
                                                                                Bumping this as Betfair have moved to Ongame and frankly I don't want to play there. Anywhere but iPoker is my current stance.
                                                                                why not ipoker? fishes make up for the crap software imo

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  Originally posted by AndyFB View Post
                                                                                  Bumping this as Betfair have moved to Ongame and frankly I don't want to play there. Anywhere but iPoker is my current stance.
                                                                                  Why not split your roll across a few sites? And then just pick the juciest games at each?

                                                                                  You could easily setup RB on Cake and Entraction and fish them for a while, if they're both soft, stay, if only one is, swap across to it.

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                                                                    why not ipoker? fishes make up for the crap software imo
                                                                                    I constantly time out on iPoker. The notification system is plain broken. I just can't multitable there.

                                                                                    Splitting my roll is a good idea. I'll give a few networks a try and see how I get on with each.
                                                                                    Last edited by AndyFatBastard; 26-07-10, 14:49.
                                                                                    "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      Scratch that, I've just seen Betfair's bonus scheme for their first month of Ongame. That's me sorted til September.

                                                                                      "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        Playing a coulpe of $20 + .80c DON's on Stars at lunch.

                                                                                        This guy who was Supernova works his stack up to 5800 and its now bubble time. The blinds are 200-400 and there are three guys left sub 1.5k.

                                                                                        Then big stack starts to go all in every hand. What gives? If he sat there and did nothing he would get paid. Why do this?

                                                                                        A friend who plays a bit was watching and said he was doing the right thing, that he was using his stack and the fact that it was bubble time to end it. I said it was one of the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
                                                                                        Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                          Great post on 2+2.

                                                                                          Originally posted by citizenwind
                                                                                          On Being Solid.

                                                                                          I used to make long posts like this all the time, and I haven't in a while. So here we go. Ups to Verneer, who I've been discussing some of these concepts with lately. This is x-posted on my blog



                                                                                          Verneer called me yesterday to chat about some poker ideas, our respective experiences with rush, and the idea of the "Ladder of Mistakes," that I discuss in the first chapter of the upcoming book, which touches on the idea of making small mistakes early in a hand to avoid or cause bigger mistakes later on, such as folding 77 on a J94ss flop even though it might be the best hand at the time, or 3-betting a seven-high type hand to cause an opponent to tilt when you later pickup Aces.

                                                                                          By his own admission, Verneer is a life nit. So am I. We don't like bankroll swings, we both play mostly SSNL, and we both play extremely overrolled. I play and advocate a relatively straightforward, super solid TAG style, using a lot of common sense decision-making mixed with a few choices idiosyncracies. I make standard plays 90-95% of the time. I'm sure Verneer's apple doesn't far fall from the Solid Tree either. In his blog post about his tremendous success at 100-200nl, he describes his game-plan as "Raising when I got it, folding when I don't, and letting the 2+2-ers try to 5-bet bluff-shove me off Aces."

                                                                                          Back in the day, people used to herald solid play as the key to beating SSNL-MSNL games. Then, after the poker education boom, solid play fell out of favor. People became obsessed with Hero calls and romantic bluffs, and lost sight of their roots. Rather than asking "how does my hand fare against my opponent's?" they asked "what can i get my opponent to fold?" Without balancing the two questions, they suddenly became marginal winners, and as their opponents became even better, these players became more and more breakeven.

                                                                                          So often, I see people say "ABC poker doesn't win the money." What?!? Says who? Did someone flip a switch and suddenly make solid play unprofitable? Did a bunch of nosebleed players all come out at once and say that solid play is a losing style? And even if they did, were they doing so for the benefit of their opponents, or for their own benefit?

                                                                                          Solid plays wins the money. If anyone tells you anything else, they're deluding themselves. When someone says "Oh ABC poker doesn't win," they're wrong. At least half a million hands between Verneer and I proves that solid play not only wins, but it wins at a steady clip. Don't believe it beats MSNL and higher? Go search up Nanonoko, or TcBlade.

                                                                                          Let's say a SSNL player-- Edward, we'll call him, because i love vampires-- plays a really solid, slightly nitty 19/16 style that focuses on putting in very little money while behind, and putting in as much money as possible when very likely ahead. This philosophy is exemplified by the poker aphorism "Big hand, big pot. Small hand, small pot."

                                                                                          Let's take a second SSNL player, Jacob. Jacob loves bluffing. It's a drug. He splashes around, and gets high off of stacking his opponents and running big all-in bluffs when his opponent shows weakness. He plays 27/24 with a 9% 3-bet, and spends a lot of time trying to “own” his opponents, which is arguably necessary with his much looser style.

                                                                                          If you took 100 Eddie's and 100 Jacob's, most of the Eddie's will be 2 to 4ptbb/100 winners, depending on their skill and how well they ran. However, if you look at the Jacob's, I'll bet they generally will have winrates closer to -.5 to 1.5ptbb/100. This is for a couple of reasons:

                                                                                          1) At SSNL, value-betting is often more powerful a weapon than bluffing.

                                                                                          2) Eddie is much less likely to have big swings, and hence, is less likely to tilt. Jacob's game is much more sensitive to gameflow conditions, making his auto-piloting game much less effective as his number of tables increases. While Eddie can probably play 6-8 tables very effectively, Jacob should usually play no more than 4.

                                                                                          3) When Eddie's playing his B-game, he'll rarely be making huge mistakes for his stack. More likely, he'll make more small ones than usual, perhaps calling raises a bit too lightly, or folding a bit too early in the hand. If Jacob's playing his B-game, he might poorly time a 4-bet bluff, or 3-bet an aggro reg too often and get 4-bet, or run a bluff that would've been effective in a vacuum, but is poor in a specific dynamic. In turn, this leads to a deterioration in play, and Jacob loses even more.

                                                                                          This isn't to say that there aren't outliers. There are certainly some VERY talented hyper-LAGs out there, but they are rare. Tableratings seems to anecdotally support this claim: when you look up very loose opponents who are giving you trouble, the overwhelming majority of the time, you'll find these players are small losers to small winners, and are rarely big winners over large samples. Of course, big winners are rare regardless of style, but I'd posit that players with 27 VPIP or higher are much less often 3ptbb/100 winners than their 22 VPIP counterparts.

                                                                                          When I first joined Cardrunners, I was one of the biggest winners at 100nl playing an 18/15 style. I table selected well, showed up with the goods, and generally didn't run huge, ridiculous bluffs. I wasn't a particularly fearsome player, but I grinded out a very steady, stable, low variance income, and that was good enough. As I became more experienced I opened up my game to 26/22, mostly to play more pots with the fish, though as I moved up to 2/4 and flirted with 3/6, I was having a harder and harder time maintaining a winning clip with a looser style. Those games are full of knowledgable, aggressive players, but if you dig deeply, you'll find that most of them are breakeven or very small winners. Why? Because these players are too spazzy, too suspicious. They're always worried someone's making a move on them, and put money in way too lightly. In fear of getting outplayed, they lose sight of “Big pot, big hand.”

                                                                                          If I was to seriously grind 100-200nl 6-max again, I would probably play between 19/16 and 20/17, with no more than a 5% 3-bet statistic (though I'd recommend my students to play very slightly looser, because they wouldn't have to worry about people trying to make hero plays on video against them). In the current state of the games, most regulars are Cardrunners or 2+2 members, and you'd think they wouldn't be susceptible to straightforward value betting and raising. Yet they are! They love to Hero call and they have high rebluffing frequencies. If you C/R a regular on JJx with a Jack, your value doesn't just come from a player calling you down with 88, it comes from someone bluff 3-betting and putting in 1/3 of their stack and then folding to your shove.

                                                                                          The tricky part, in my eyes, is how one defines “solid play” besides playing tightly pre-flop. I'm sure to butcher this definition, but I'll still give it a whirl:

                                                                                          1. Play big pots with big hands. When the pot's 50bb's or more, you should usually have a hand that compares very favorably against your opponent's. Against nits, that means you're near the very top of your range, and against fish, you've got top pair with a moderate kicker.

                                                                                          2. Run bluffs with equity. When deciding to raise a K84 flop as a bluff, it's MUCH better to do so with 76s or A4s than it is to do so with JT. Against KQ, 76s has 22% equity and draws to the stone nuts. JT has 6%, and sometimes when you backdoor two pair, you'll be paying off better two pair. This concept goes for both bluff-raising and floating. When double barreling, without a specific read, I'm barreling when A) my equity increases on the turn (I pick up a draw or had a premium draw to start) B) the card pooped on my opponent's flop calling range (aka usually an overcard to top or 2nd pair). At SSNL, I'm almost barreling with the sole intent to get someone off of TPGK.

                                                                                          3. Don't try to simplify poker into a pre-flop battle, trying to push tiny 3-4% edges. If you're getting in AQ or 99 pre-flop standardly in late position, you're not necessarily doing something wrong, but you're exposing yourself to significant trouble against perceptive or tricky opponents.

                                                                                          4. Play JUST loose enough to get people to assume you're a goofball. 3-bet on the button. Occasionally C/R and bluff-raise obvious bluffing spots and then fold. Let your opponents assume you're capable of more than you actually are. In a recent session, a 13/9 regular 4-bet QT and then CALLED OFF against my 5-bet. To make that call correct, either I have to be 3-bet/5-betting a hand like 55, or I have to be 5-bet jamming a hand worse than Q-high-- neither of which I've done outside of extreme circumstances. But my opponents don't know that!

                                                                                          5. Have a folding range. In every situation, you need to have a folding range. Be it folding to 3-bets, folding to 4-bets, folding to cbets, turn bets, etc. Though folding guarantees you'll lose the hand, folding encourages your opponents to put in more money with bluffs to try and run you over. Now, this doesn't mean you should fold too often-- you should still have a W$WSF north of 45%-- but it does mean that you should be willing to give up in certain positions, even when you know your opponent is going to be firing 100% of his air range. For example, occasionally C/Fing Kxxr with the betting lead encourages opponents to take shots at you when you check, which you can later exploit.

                                                                                          6. Cold-call very tightly. As you get more proficient, you can call much more loosely, especially with fish to act. However, standardly calling open raises with very speculative hands and 100bb effective stacks just isn't going to be profitable. Hands like 98s and A2s are going to require multi-way pots to show a profit if you're not accurately fighting for small and medium pots, or if you're misjudging how often a fish comes along for the ride.

                                                                                          7. Don't attack strength, attack weakness. There are a surprising amount of threads where I see someone shove over a 4-bet, or a C/R and turn bet, or a 3-barrel on a bad board to fire on. Yeah, there are some spots where this is right, but this should certainly not be the norm! Don't attack people in spots where they are trying to put a ton of money into the pot, attack when they can't possibly have a strong hand. For example, if two players check around to you twice in a small pot, or a straightforward opponent doesn't lead after you check back the flop, those are times to pounce or run bigger-than-usual bluffs. Not only will your success rate in these spots be VERY high, but if you're caught, you get to develop a crazy image very cheaply.

                                                                                          I'd like to end on a final note:

                                                                                          We've all seen videos where high stakes pros have said "well, I'm kind of a station." And then proceed to make a call-down. In your own games, you should greatly resist the urge to be a huge station. Opponents at SSNL simply are not as aggressive as their higher stakes counterparts, and don't have the theoretical knowledge base to back up more sophisticated plays. At 50nl, I've never once said "Oh, my opponent has a capped range here, so I should shove this river" or suspected my opponents of being sophisticated enough to turn 77 into a bluff on Q64KJ when I triple barrel. Of course, people ARE doing this, but those players fall into such a minority that I do not let it dictate my overall play (I'm also convinced most of those players aren't big winners).

                                                                                          Be proud that you can make big folds when the need arises. Don't worry about balance and exploitation-- people aren't observant enough, aren't good enough, to be consistently exploiting you in esoteric spots. There are a lot of times where I said to myself "man, if I posted this hand in the forums, I'd get so berated," then proceeded to fold a flopped set or KK pre-flop (usually multi-way, where my opponent's range are stronger, and I get the side benefit to see that I'm right or wrong). I've folded top pair to a single flop bet in a single raised pot. Do I worry about folding the best hand? Of course! But it's not like I'm always folding top pair, or even folding enough to be exploited. Folding the best hand, though it may be a mistake in the moment, can often be correct in the long run. Trust your spidey sense. Your first gut instinct is often right. When the nit snap-mashes pot, I don't care what he's representing or that I have an overpair. He's got me crushed. Nice hand.

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                            Good post that. It's particularly apt in Rush where hands are much more in a vacuum and blatantly exploitable opponents are rarer. Although there is a guy in my DB who 3bets 15% and cbets 35%. God I love it when he pops up on my table.
                                                                                            "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                              If you get aces UTG with 45k behind, blinds 1k and 2k what would you raise?
                                                                                              Is that how you crash a wedding? yes it is, Bionic Barry, yes it is.

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                Originally posted by Zod View Post
                                                                                                If you get aces UTG with 45k behind, blinds 1k and 2k what would you raise?
                                                                                                More info needed if you want a helpful answer....

                                                                                                other stack sizes, stage of the tournie, type of tournie?

                                                                                                Recent action at the table?

                                                                                                Description of other players?
                                                                                                You see Billy it's like this, you either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                  Originally posted by Reaps View Post
                                                                                                  More info needed if you want a helpful answer....

                                                                                                  other stack sizes, stage of the tournie, type of tournie?

                                                                                                  Recent action at the table?

                                                                                                  Description of other players?

                                                                                                  Live tournament about 15th hand after being moved to the table, 8 players on table, 30 left, blinds 1k/2k 100 ante.

                                                                                                  SB about 30k, loose player, doubled me up about 4 hands earlier when his queen high went into my straight.

                                                                                                  BB has 55k, slightly laggy.

                                                                                                  UTG+1 about 15k, not see alot of action.

                                                                                                  UTG+2 30k,not alot of info, tends to bluff.

                                                                                                  EP and chip lead at the table has 65k, TAG player, have played with a bit previously.
                                                                                                  CO 50k. tight player from the few hands I've seen.
                                                                                                  Button 20k, lost a few hands coming up to this that ate her stack. Generally doesn't like getting into hands with me without having a strong hand, knows I don't raise lightly.

                                                                                                  I don't want to give the action away yet, just need to work on my UTG play, as it's an area I know I'm weak on.
                                                                                                  Is that how you crash a wedding? yes it is, Bionic Barry, yes it is.

                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                    It depends what my raise sizing has been like and also the standard raise size at the table.

                                                                                                    I wouldn’t normally flat call or min raise here. I might make it something like 5,200 hoping to induce a raise.

                                                                                                    If I thought I’d get too many callers I might even make it 6,500/7,000.
                                                                                                    You see Billy it's like this, you either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked

                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                      Raise the same amount as you'd raise any time you decide to raise in that position, with any hand you'd choose to raise with
                                                                                                      "In the world, there are many kings but there is only one God. I am God, I am El Tren" :{)

                                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                                        Originally posted by Zod View Post
                                                                                                        If you get aces UTG with 45k behind, blinds 1k and 2k what would you raise?
                                                                                                        You make your standard raise whatever it may be.
                                                                                                        May you live in interesting times!

                                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                                          I made it 6k, which is my usual 3x raise from the blinds, and got 2 callers (EP and big blind).

                                                                                                          flop came 8 4 2 rainbow and BB went all in. I called, EP called.

                                                                                                          BB had 87, EP had a set of 4s, and that was all she wrote.
                                                                                                          Is that how you crash a wedding? yes it is, Bionic Barry, yes it is.

                                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                                            Originally posted by Zod View Post
                                                                                                            I made it 6k, which is my usual 3x raise from the blinds, and got 2 callers (EP and big blind).

                                                                                                            flop came 8 4 2 rainbow and BB went all in. I called, EP called.

                                                                                                            BB had 87, EP had a set of 4s, and that was all she wrote.
                                                                                                            Sh1t happens. Fire up the next game and move on. The BBV is over that way -->
                                                                                                            May you live in interesting times!

                                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                                              Originally posted by bp_me View Post
                                                                                                              Sh1t happens. Fire up the next game and move on. The BBV is over that way -->
                                                                                                              nah, not venting. I just wanted to know was there anything wrong with my bet sizing pre-flop.
                                                                                                              Is that how you crash a wedding? yes it is, Bionic Barry, yes it is.

                                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                                Originally posted by Zod View Post
                                                                                                                nah, not venting. I just wanted to know was there anything wrong with my bet sizing pre-flop.
                                                                                                                Pre flop bet is fine
                                                                                                                You see Billy it's like this, you either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked

                                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                                  Just a quick question playing a tournie not going well.

                                                                                                                  In the Sb with 4 BB think the levels were 800/400 with 50 ante I fold all the way around to me and I have 24. Guy yo my left will call and has me covered. Do I shove and hopw for a miricle or wait for the nest hand pay the ante?

                                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                                    Zod, 6k is too much with those stacks. You'd want to be making it less than 5k I think. Maybe 5k is fine.

                                                                                                                    Originally posted by MegaSin View Post
                                                                                                                    Just a quick question playing a tournie not going well.

                                                                                                                    In the Sb with 4 BB think the levels were 800/400 with 50 ante I fold all the way around to me and I have 24. Guy yo my left will call and has me covered. Do I shove and hope for a miricle or wait for the nest hand pay the ante?
                                                                                                                    Simple maths question. Try put a sensible estimate out there with your reasoning and it'll help you a lot more than if you just read through someone else's. I'll post my own estimate in a couple days when I got time. Really is just very simple maths though. A few assumptions might be easy to under or overestimate though.
                                                                                                                    Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                                      First hand of the day (so no reads), and it's a shallow table so the max buyin is 80c.

                                                                                                                      Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (4 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                                                                      UTG ($1.62)
                                                                                                                      Button ($0.42)
                                                                                                                      SB ($0.81)
                                                                                                                      Hero (BB) ($0.80)

                                                                                                                      Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J
                                                                                                                      1 fold, Button bets $0.07, SB raises to $0.12, Hero...???,

                                                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Emperor Badger View Post
                                                                                                                        First hand of the day (so no reads), and it's a shallow table so the max buyin is 80c.

                                                                                                                        Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (4 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                                                                        UTG ($1.62)
                                                                                                                        Button ($0.42)
                                                                                                                        SB ($0.81)
                                                                                                                        Hero (BB) ($0.80)

                                                                                                                        Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J
                                                                                                                        1 fold, Button bets $0.07, SB raises to $0.12, Hero...???,

                                                                                                                        At these stakes shove it in and go to the races

                                                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                                                          Can't fold, can't call, its a shove all day long

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