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Old 19-01-13, 16:13   #1
iSnow
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2-7 Draw

Same situation, different limits:

2-7 TD Limit:

6 handed: Cards dealt and look down to see QQQ22.
Move?

2-7 Single Draw NL:

6 Handed: Cards dealt and look down to see QQQ22.
Move?
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Old 19-01-13, 18:12   #2
KK82
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I'm no expert, but aren't these shite hands?
Fold both IMO
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Old 19-01-13, 18:42   #3
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Fold both, not even close. Playing 4 card draws to a wheel is always bad unless it's a limped pot and you are in the BB.
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Old 19-01-13, 19:53   #4
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OK so I've decided to play these hands. What next?
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Old 19-01-13, 19:57   #5
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OK so I've decided to play these hands. What next?
Tell me where it is and i'll come play with you

Honestly cannot see any upside to playing either. If you had QQ222 you could at least pat or draw 1 and bet if knowing it's unlikely anyone has the other 2. That would also depend on the stakes.
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Old 19-01-13, 20:04   #6
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OK so I've decided to play these hands. What next?
Know that you have no reason to fold any hand ever in the future if you play these.
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Old 19-01-13, 20:13   #7
iSnow
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Tell me where it is and i'll come play with you

Honestly cannot see any upside to playing either. If you had QQ222 you could at least pat or draw 1 and bet if knowing it's unlikely anyone has the other 2. That would also depend on the stakes.
This is great Tony. What do you think are the merits for:
A: Patting
B: Draw one then pat and honk (TDL)

Last edited by iSnow; 19-01-13 at 20:21.
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Old 19-01-13, 20:21   #8
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This is great Tony. What do you think are the merits for:
A Patting
B Draw one then pat and honk (TDL)
Well, patting could mean a 9 or 8 lo, so drawing 1 would be a better option because it's more likely to look like a 7 lo. It just might seem like a good bluffing opportunity
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Old 19-01-13, 20:58   #9
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Yeah think the draw one option is best for optimal extraction. Seems more plausible than patting then honking. Cheers Tony it was a weird spot and was troubling me for months. Will let you know when I'm playing next
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Old 21-01-13, 18:35   #10
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I'd either pat immediately or draw one and pat. The only good thing about the hand is you have all the blockers to 2xxxx hands, so hands like 357 have less chance to catch well. Still a fold always though unless you're on the button/sb and the blinds/bb fold too much.
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Old 21-01-13, 22:21   #11
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Bizarre thread! Like asking what to do with 47o in EP in holdem.
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Old 21-01-13, 23:18   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmc38 View Post
I'd either pat immediately or draw one and pat. The only good thing about the hand is you have all the blockers to 2xxxx hands, so hands like 357 have less chance to catch well. Still a fold always though unless you're on the button/sb and the blinds/bb fold too much.
There's some merit for immediate pat in NL but think this would look weak in TDL.
The exact way this played out in TDL I honked every street and was only by the grace of God villain folded to save a bet on the end. I showed obv.

I'd also raise from button with this hand FWIW.
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Old 21-01-13, 23:22   #13
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Bizarre thread! Like asking what to do with 47o in EP in holdem.
What a surprising comment seeing as I've played against you live and online. Surely you see the positive effect of this move for two reasons.

A.) You might actually win the pot
B.) Loosen the game to get your future weak 8's,9's ,10's paid.
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Old 21-01-13, 23:38   #14
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What a surprising comment seeing as I've played against you live and online. Surely you see the positive effect of this move for two reasons.

A.) You might actually win the pot
B.) Loosen the game to get your future weak 8's,9's ,10's paid.
You could make exactly the same argument for raising with 47o
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Old 22-01-13, 08:46   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iSnow View Post
What a surprising comment seeing as I've played against you live and online. Surely you see the positive effect of this move for two reasons.

A.) You might actually win the pot
B.) Loosen the game to get your future weak 8's,9's ,10's paid.
There are lots of ways to make yourself tricky to play against, but I don't think opening complete crap and mashing the bet button hoping they fold is the way to go! What HJ said basically. It may be good for your image, but I doubt this gives you enough future EV to make up for the amount you lose by playing a hand this weak.
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Old 22-01-13, 16:10   #16
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There are lots of ways to make yourself tricky to play against, but I don't think opening complete crap and mashing the bet button hoping they fold is the way to go! What HJ said basically. It may be good for your image, but I doubt this gives you enough future EV to make up for the amount you lose by playing a hand this weak.
So given that drawing a boat is a rarity. losing 6 Bets (Action Depending) is considered -EV to loosen up a game or get substandard hands paid off? I'm not being smart this is a genuine question.
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Old 22-01-13, 16:19   #17
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Even if you think it's positive EV (obviously it's difficult to prove either way), the fact is that it most certainly isn't maximum EV. If you want a part of your show down range to be junk to improve your image, which of course we do, then it's far better do it when you pair your 8 on the end or snow after the 2nd draw when you have seen a lot of wheel cards.
That way you're putting in bets with what is probably pretty good equity all the way through the hand and then bluffing with the last bet which, if shown down will allow you to value bet Ts and 9s on the end against the right people in the future.
Basically turning a hand which had potential and missed is much better than just picking a shit hand and going with it.
I could conceivably 3-bet and draw one with QQ222 vs the right villain, but even that is very thin I suspect.
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