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Old 25-08-17, 12:18   #3301
brady23
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I havent been playing much online as of late but happened to final table Big 109 last night. Few big online winners on final 2 tables Greenstone25 Damowain among others, felt out of my depth to a point if honest. No HUD but general playing quite tight I would guess I'm playing somewhere around 12/10 but quite trivial for this hand.

Doubled up bvb and 5/6 now. UTG the villain whos been most active probably, Asian approx 500k in cashes on stars with a little bit of variation in PF raise sizing but nothing too crazy.

Villain playing 400k, hero 290k, smallest stack approx 230k.

Blinds 6-12k

Villain opens to 26k
Hero 3b to 63k with AQo
Villain insta-flats

Flop: AK7r board

Villain checks, Hero checks

Turn is 3x Villain bets 89k, Hero flats

River 7x Villain Jams, Hero calls and obviously loses(hence HH)

Thoughts on the line? Hard I know without a HUD. I felt at the time I was disguising hand strength. Turn sizing was huge, felt villain assumes i check back 88-QQ which is in my 3b call range as well as Kx-KQ which are 3b/f and I may check.
Also assumed he 4b jams AK and jams river with all Aces to blow me off a chop.

2 hands later he barrelled 3 streets with QQ bvb on a AK10xx board with 3 clubs and was called by KJ for stacks.

Given all that do can we find a fold here on river ever? Obviously cbet flop for 50-55k and play for stacks is standard. Apologises for it being a tad messy.
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Old 25-08-17, 17:39   #3302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brady23 View Post
I havent been playing much online as of late but happened to final table Big 109 last night. Few big online winners on final 2 tables Greenstone25 Damowain among others, felt out of my depth to a point if honest. No HUD but general playing quite tight I would guess I'm playing somewhere around 12/10 but quite trivial for this hand.

Doubled up bvb and 5/6 now. UTG the villain whos been most active probably, Asian approx 500k in cashes on stars with a little bit of variation in PF raise sizing but nothing too crazy.

Villain playing 400k, hero 290k, smallest stack approx 230k.

Blinds 6-12k

Villain opens to 26k
Hero 3b to 63k with AQo
Villain insta-flats

Flop: AK7r board

Villain checks, Hero checks

Turn is 3x Villain bets 89k, Hero flats

River 7x Villain Jams, Hero calls and obviously loses(hence HH)

Thoughts on the line? Hard I know without a HUD. I felt at the time I was disguising hand strength. Turn sizing was huge, felt villain assumes i check back 88-QQ which is in my 3b call range as well as Kx-KQ which are 3b/f and I may check.
Also assumed he 4b jams AK and jams river with all Aces to blow me off a chop.

2 hands later he barrelled 3 streets with QQ bvb on a AK10xx board with 3 clubs and was called by KJ for stacks.

Given all that do can we find a fold here on river ever? Obviously cbet flop for 50-55k and play for stacks is standard. Apologises for it being a tad messy.
I like the check back on the flop, pretty disgusting river but really but I'm not able to fold here in these spots. Given tendencies of villain I think the flop check back is better than c-bet if we feel he's going to blast off like you said he's capable of. I'm a little out of practice myself so could be talking shite.
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Old 25-08-17, 17:39   #3303
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Interesting hand. Preflop I think shove or flat is a much easier strategy, given he opened utg and you are utg +1 I think either is quite reasonable. You only have 24 big blinds.

The river is really bad for you, you lose to all 7x hands of which you block none and may call given your small 3bet, and obviously you chop with all worse aces. Its kind of hard to construct a bluffing range for your opponent. Did the turn complete the rainbow board? If so then for your opponent to be bluffing he needs to be turning a hand with almost zero equity into a two street bluff. The only hands I can think of that would be ok to do with are TQ or TJ, both of which are gutshots and block your potential call downs, however you block both of these. The next best bluff hand would be a 7x hand, given it has equity but no real showdown value.

How many Ax hands are you 3betting preflop? How many kx hands are you 3betting preflop? Villain is shoving for 140k into 300k, so your MDF (minimum defence frequncy) is roughly 70%. If you have plenty of kings in your range, it might be reasonable to fold all kings and call all aces. If you rarely have kings then you could split your aces into those that block his bluffs and those that block 7x hands - so A7 is a much better call than AJ, but again it depends how many combinations of Ax you can get here with. Are you checking back sets and AK here? If so then AQ might be far enough down in your range you can safely fold.

Also, thinking exploitatively- this board smashes your range and not this (he can never have AK, he rarely has AA/kk), so you don't really need to defend light since he shouldn't be attacking you light and you will often have near nut hands to call down with.

Last edited by Hectorjelly; 25-08-17 at 17:43.
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Old 25-08-17, 18:43   #3304
brady23
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Originally Posted by Hectorjelly View Post
Interesting hand. Preflop I think shove or flat is a much easier strategy, given he opened utg and you are utg +1 I think either is quite reasonable. You only have 24 big blinds.

The river is really bad for you, you lose to all 7x hands of which you block none and may call given your small 3bet, and obviously you chop with all worse aces. Its kind of hard to construct a bluffing range for your opponent. Did the turn complete the rainbow board? If so then for your opponent to be bluffing he needs to be turning a hand with almost zero equity into a two street bluff. The only hands I can think of that would be ok to do with are TQ or TJ, both of which are gutshots and block your potential call downs, however you block both of these. The next best bluff hand would be a 7x hand, given it has equity but no real showdown value.

How many Ax hands are you 3betting preflop? How many kx hands are you 3betting preflop? Villain is shoving for 140k into 300k, so your MDF (minimum defence frequncy) is roughly 70%. If you have plenty of kings in your range, it might be reasonable to fold all kings and call all aces. If you rarely have kings then you could split your aces into those that block his bluffs and those that block 7x hands - so A7 is a much better call than AJ, but again it depends how many combinations of Ax you can get here with. Are you checking back sets and AK here? If so then AQ might be far enough down in your range you can safely fold.

Also, thinking exploitatively- this board smashes your range and not this (he can never have AK, he rarely has AA/kk), so you don't really need to defend light since he shouldn't be attacking you light and you will often have near nut hands to call down with.
I think my 3b range if im honest in this spot is relatively nutted given opponent and stack size and probably recent double up realistically makes me unlikely to be 3b light.
I felt I wasn't maximising my equity by jamming pre vs this opponent but obviously I agree regarding the shove pre.
I can't remember tbh if there was a potential turned FD.
Easy said now obviously but I planned to check back my entire range here.
Given turn sizing I thought there was a number of bluffs and smaller Aces perhaps even A3s or A7 which were trying to protect/maximise their equity.
Obviously the river makes A3 irrelevant and A7 less likely and I felt he shoves more of these hands pre vs flatting.
TBH I'm kind of at a loss. Initially I felt snap, then perhaps not and after seeing him barrel off with QQ I thought it was an ok call.
I'll double check board when Im home tomorrow but those hands were exactly what I thought too.

Minimum defence frequency is not something I recall looking at but something to look at.

Appreciate both replies figured it was a good one to post.
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Old 25-08-17, 19:24   #3305
Hectorjelly
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I was half asleep when I replied, made a few mistakes. We don't block TJ and I meant A6 rather than a7 for calling down with, a7 is obviously a call due to it being a boat, a6 blocks 67. If AQ is the bottom of your range for getting to the river (ie we rarely 3bet aJ and we fold kx or worse on turn) then you can fold AQ and call ak+ without being exploitable.

I think a solver would suggest betting your entire range in the flop for 33% of pot, which would make the hand completely different.
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Old 25-08-17, 21:09   #3306
brady23
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Originally Posted by Hectorjelly View Post
I was half asleep when I replied, made a few mistakes. We don't block TJ and I meant A6 rather than a7 for calling down with, a7 is obviously a call due to it being a boat, a6 blocks 67. If AQ is the bottom of your range for getting to the river (ie we rarely 3bet aJ and we fold kx or worse on turn) then you can fold AQ and call ak+ without being exploitable.

I think a solver would suggest betting your entire range in the flop for 33% of pot, which would make the hand completely different.
Probably 3b AJo and A10s perhaps A10o but yeah its a relatively nutted range. I know call or fold on river isnt bad per say but you don't hit FT of these tourneys too often so playing optimally is key.

Out of curiousty what do we like on a non 73k or broadway card board?
Again appreciate the responses

Last edited by brady23; 25-08-17 at 21:12.
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Old 27-10-17, 10:29   #3307
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I'll try another hand live this time.
Happy enough with table, two strongest players are to my right. Im playing approx 125k


7 handed bb 2.4k

I open EP for 5.3k with KJo

Villain flats playing approx 150k, appears relatively solid, folded 77 pre to a utg open earlier playing 50bbs assuming he's telling the truth. Little info tbh but from memory bets in position when checked to him and showed KK 3 times when he 3b pre

Pre: standard enough so happy to open given two strongest players are sb and bb also

Flop J86r

Flop: I cbet approx 5.7k and villain flats. Appears like a standard enough cbet

Turn 2h so FD now.

Turn: I think betting is obviously fine but given limited knowledge of the Villains tendencies I decided to check.

I felt he folds a lot of turns to a bet and I'm hoping to get some value. I think a check call disguises strength of my hand and range looks more draw heavy.
I check call a turn bet of approx 10.2k

River off suit King

River: I think I miss tons of value now by checking river, I think it's a pretty standard bet for value.
I don't have King hearts either so if he floated flop and leads with Kxhh or any Kx I get some value obviously. Happy to lead.

I bet 18k

Villain thinks for a few seconds and jams I'm the effective stack so approx 85k behind.

I'm finding it hard to find any bluffs in his range given play thus far.
I think it's obviously weighted towards sets. 66 and 88. He may float flop with 22 but given 77 fold earlier I think he folds pre alot.
Perhaps KJ also, I don't know if he flats 68s, J8s etc but feel he raises flop if he does. K8s I doubt also but don't know if he jams river with those either.
Perhaps flats Ak, KQ and over valuing on river

We need to be winning here 33% to make the river call vs his jamming range and I don't know if we have that given it's so weighted towards nutted hands.

This one had me in the tank for 3-4mins

Thoughts?

Last edited by brady23; 27-10-17 at 15:49. Reason: Bit long winded still is
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Old 27-10-17, 14:23   #3308
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Good hand. Your raise preflop is very small given his limp, you don't really give him a chance to fold, so I would think his range is close to 100% of what he limps with. For bluffs he could have T9s or 79s, or he could be turning a6 or a8s into a bluff. Your flop bet is small enough that he definitely calls with all those hands. You can't completely rule out worse hands for value either. Worse kings, worse two pairs.

On the river what is your range? Do you have any better hands that take this line? Seems like you might be at the very top of your range, so from a theoretical stand point if you fold you run the risk of being hugely exploited in this spot.

Given that 66 and 88 make up so much of his range you are in a weird spot if he raises, so I don't much like the river lead.
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Old 27-10-17, 14:37   #3309
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Think the HH is just mixed up and he opened, rather than raised a limp.

What's the other players stack? Do you put T9s or 79s in his range if he folded 77 to a similar raise?
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Old 27-10-17, 14:37   #3310
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There's no limp HJ. I think Brady has his HH a little messed up, but what i think he means is...

7 handed bb 2.4k

I open EP for 5.3k with KJo, Villain flats next seat, appears relatively solid etc
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Old 27-10-17, 14:42   #3311
brady23
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Sorry mixed up there Denny and FD are right no limp, it's just badly written. I open he flats next position and hand play as is with villain in position

I'm the effective stack villain approx 150-160k.

Just to reply to the comments.

I do think 109s 79s 78s J10s etc are in the Villains range.

Flop sizing possibly a tad small. I think I do check stronger hands ie over pairs, AJ,JJ etc if I feel Villains folds to a ton my turn bets which I thought was possible in this spot.

I see your logic regarding a river check but I feel we lose too much value checking river given our range is perceived as quite draw heavy vs certain opponents.

Last edited by brady23; 27-10-17 at 15:52.
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Old 27-10-17, 15:03   #3312
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I make the crying call expecting to be chopping or scooping more often than behind to a set.

Having gone to the bother of check calling the turn I'd be doing the same on the river
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Old 27-10-17, 18:38   #3313
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ok that's a bit different. In that case it is very hard for him to have two pair, and I don't think 68s shoves the river. I think we have the best hand we can possibly have though, bar maybe kings?

I don't like the river if you start putting a lot of suited connectors in his range, because in that case his hands are pretty much nuts or air, so betting achieves nothing.

I'd call as played as there are so many straight draws that missed, but I'd be hating it and I don't mind a fold.
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