Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.

[Raoul Duke III]

And FF/FG they have always delivered yeah, lol stop lad will you!

Tell us the lowlights of the last Government.

[premierstone]

But if your priority is to deliver 100k public houses and you deliver barely any of that, you'll be a laughing stock no? Manifestos are generally fanciful alright but that claim is fairly out there.

We shall see what they do deliver first before ridiculing it maybe? Enough of the electorate certainly felt it was worth a shot.

[Guest]

Throw up a copy of the FG manifest from 5 years ago and we see how they got on.

We have had a 100 years of a stuttering duopoly that are at this stage pretty indistinguishable from each other surely any rational thinking person can agree or at the very least accept that it's high time to give someone else a shot at it??

Is it really that irrational to think that the stuttering duopoly has guided us to a rather advantageous economic & social(almost forgot that) position.
I'm guessing you don't want be burden you with the various metrics that help me make that claim but overall we haven't done too bad.

[ghostface]

Obviously no one realistically believes that the entirety of any manifesto will be achieved but people expect that the numbers are somewhat feasible. That is what Ste balked at, the sheer outlandish nature of the claim, especially given he seems privy to the situation.

At least SF or any other government will be begin from a nice starting point though, largest number of houses built in a decade so they'll start as they mean to go on

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...cade-1.4170320

The Land Development Agency is currently trying to develop public lands left over from nama but mostly are a mix of private and social/ affordable. There is generally a lag of about 2 to 3 years from start of planning to delivery of units so would need to be massive change somewhere along the line to develop public lands for social units which wont be on the ground until 2022 or 2023 in all likelihood.

[premierstone]

SF do have a track record of flouncing out of Stormont at the slightest sign of something contentious.



Hopefully their southern representatives are made of sterner stuff. Events dear boy, events.

Again you are showing yourself up here badly!

The issues re Stormont were not trivial as you suggest, they were substantive, devisive and major issues. And they were being asked to govern with the DUP for ffs.

Yet FF and FG in your eyes are completely justified in refusing point blankly to going into government eith a party that just happens to be slightly to the left. Ignoring the will of the people and democracy also.

Surely even you can see the irony snd hypocrisy of such a stance????

[ghostface]

We shall see what they do deliver first before ridiculing it maybe? Enough of the electorate certainly felt it was worth a shot.

If they delivered half that they'd be doing very well and would be happy to see it. Be slightly worried you are creating ghetto situations tho for future generations but not opposed to it In principle.

I think that it'd be better to focus on affordable housing (whatever that is nowadays?) Which would incoporate social into it

Also, have had my head stuck in housing and population projections some of the Councils have been trying to adopt recently and none of them have a clue how to do it. Most are considering planning permissions as completed units and discounting them from projections so they are significantly under providing on their housing targets. If they can't even do a paper exercise right I dont think they'll be able to build loads of houses

[premierstone]

Tell us the lowlights of the last Government.

Jaysus you only have to look at your own post directly above the quoted one for your answer!

[Raoul Duke III]

Is it really that irrational to think that the stuttering duopoly has guided us to a rather advantageous economic & social(almost forgot that) position.
I'm guessing you don't want be burden you with the various metrics that help me make that claim but overall we haven't done too bad.

The CSO is a gold mine for this stuff.

Take unemployment. 334k May 2011. 120k today.

[Strewelpeter]

Labour: 6 (they're not a left wing party and they have a bunch of stickies still hanging around HQ, not happening)
PBP: 5 (they have no interest being in government and they'd collapse the arrangement first chance things got tough. SF are too smart to reach an arrangement with them)
Aontu: 1 (none of SF, SD or the Greens want to control women's uteruses so no)


But if they get 60 and FF agree to another C + S...but here's the thing - FF don't want to do another C + S. .

I guess Labour could be tricky but they are likely to merge into SD at some point.

Looney left is interesting, SF manifesto is on the same level of spending as them and it would appear the mimicking of their one for everyone in the audience policies was a key factor in creating the swing to SF. You are of course right about them but they wouldn't have to be in government to elect her.
This is where the crunch is for SF either do this now or get a realistic economic policy from FF.

Uterus control is a done deal and not coming back onto the table so while Tobin and the woman in Offaly are shinners the reaction to them (to Tobin at least, I don't know about her) breaking ranks was extraordinarily vicious. I think it says something very interesting about this election that they both won seats alongside intense SF opposition... Haven't quite figured out what it tells us yet

[Guest]

The CSO is a gold mine for this stuff.

Take unemployment. 334k May 2011. 120k today.

What about GNI per capita because GDP per capita having us ranked in 4th worldwide is not accurate, still 6th in the world

Gini coefficient of 31.3, with Ireland ranked 125/156 countries(lowest being best of course).

Social transfers to those at risk of poverty being 2nd best in Europe.

We need change though, not left enough, we've had those right wing tyrants for too long.

[Raoul Duke III]

Again you are showing yourself up here badly!

The issues re Stormont were not trivial as you suggest, they were substantive, devisive and major issues. And they were being asked to govern with the DUP for ffs.

Substantive me hole, trivial bullshit at best.

I think we're entitled to ask will SF be able to handle it when the going gets tough.

Yet FF and FG in your eyes are completely justified in refusing point blankly to going into government eith a party that just happens to be slightly to the left. Ignoring the will of the people and democracy also.

Surely even you can see the irony snd hypocrisy of such a stance????

You're making stuff up now. I think FF should go in with SF and the Greens.

As to where on the political spectrum SF sit, thankfully there is a very easy mechanism for establishing that. Who do they coalesce with in the European parliament? Let's see:

They're in GUE/NGL as I'm sure a devoted and learned SF supporter such as yourself fully knows. Including Podemos (far left), Syriza (), Die Linke (very far left) and, presumably for the craic, Ming Flanagan.

So you clearly don't know much about your own party and its far left fellow travellers. I am glad to have raised your level of awareness.

[Denny Crane]

Would we be expecting SF to be leading much change in 12-18months as a colation leader?

[Raoul Duke III]

As to where on the political spectrum SF sit, thankfully there is a very easy mechanism for establishing that. Who do they coalesce with in the European parliament? Let's see:

They're in GUE/NGL as I'm sure a devoted and learned SF supporter such as yourself fully knows. Including Podemos (far left), Syriza (), Die Linke (very far left) and, presumably for the craic, Ming Flanagan.

So you clearly don't know much about your own party and its far left fellow travellers. I am glad to have raised your level of awareness.

Portugese Communist Party, Czech Communist Party, Swedish Communists, Communist Party of Cyprus....

There's a trend in these allies of SF.

[ComradeCollie]

Anyone use Rentokil before for rats?

Have at least one of the bastards under my deck.

Would you not catch them yourself, ye big Mary?

[Raoul Duke III]

And, of course, the Animal Party.

[Raoul Duke III]

Just to be clear, there is no-one to the left of this leftist grouping.

If SF really were, in the words of premierstone, 'slightly to the left', they would of course be in the real centre-left grouping: the S&D.

By the way, it's absolutely fine to be far left. Just don't lie about it and expect to have your bullshit swallowed whole.

[premierstone]

Substantive me hole, trivial bullshit at best.

I think we're entitled to ask will SF be able to handle it when the going gets tough.



You're making stuff up now. I think FF should go in with SF and the Greens.

As to where on the political spectrum SF sit, thankfully there is a very easy mechanism for establishing that. Who do they coalesce with in the European parliament? Let's see:

They're in GUE/NGL as I'm sure a devoted and learned SF supporter such as yourself fully knows. Including Podemos (far left), Syriza (), Die Linke (very far left) and, presumably for the craic, Ming Flanagan.

So you clearly don't know much about your own party and its far left fellow travellers. I am glad to have raised your level of awareness.

I will correct you on one little thing before I step away from this, there is no point in even trying to engage with someone so entrenched and closed, I am not now or never have been a Sinn Fein supporter, never mind a devoted or learned one, but I welcome with open arms the idea of a democratically chosen change and shift away from the " ah shur me grandad voted FF/FG why wouldn't I" mentality which has blighted this country for decades.

FWIW I did not vote Sinn Fein number one but I fully respect the will of the electorate and will not judge them until after, or at least in the midst of, a term in top office. Anything else would seem premature, presumptuous and to be honest political snobbery.

[Lazare]

Would you not catch them yourself, ye big Mary?

I set a trap last night. Put a lump of peanut butter on it. Trap ended up about 15 feet away with no rat on it. Wasn't the wind either.

I'd struggle scooping up a brown bread one, nevermind running after a live one. Ugh, skin crawling at the thought of it.

[ComradeCollie]

And, of course, the Animal Party.

Hadn't heard of them before, but often thought the Greens here should be a testimonial party ( though I wasn't aware of the term).

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[Raoul Duke III]

I will correct you on one little thing before I step away from this, there is no point in even trying to engage with someone so entrenched and closed, I am not now or never have been a Sinn Fein supporter, never mind a devoted or learned one, but I welcome with open arms the idea of a democratically chosen change and shift away from the " ah shur me grandad voted FF/FG why wouldn't I" mentality which has blighted this country for decades.

FWIW I did not vote Sinn Fein number one but I fully respect the will of the electorate and will not judge them until after, or at least in the midst of, a term in top office. Anything else would seem premature, presumptuous and to be honest political snobbery.

Oh good. I think they should be judged on their record too.

And, seeing as you didn't refute the points about SF actually belonging to the far left, we'll just take it as read you didn't know where they really sit on the political spectrum.....

[ComradeCollie]

I'd struggle scooping up a brown bread one, nevermind running after a live one. Ugh, skin crawling at the thought of it.

Suppose it must be some kind of phobia. Like I'd understand a vegan/vegetarian having a problem with it. My only worry with setting traps is accidentally nabbing a bird.

[Solksjaer!]

Cloughie the King

https://talksport.com/football/667620/mark-crossley-brian-clough-vinnie-jones-ghetto-blaster/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=talksportfacebook&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1581365360

[Lazare]

RBB on the radio last week gave me a really good laugh when he was talking about building 60k houses on public land. Fully built using state employed labour.

'They will be happy to be in full time employment'. How can anyone be that fucking stupid?

I once witnessed a bunch of state employed painters in Beamount hospital spend close on 200 hours labour painting about 12 radiators. About 4 hours work if they were paid per radiator.
Human nature in an individualist society. Only the market can build at speed.

What are SF's plans for these 100k houses?

[premierstone]

Oh good. I think they should be judged on their record too.



And, seeing as you didn't refute the points about SF actually belonging to the far left, we'll just take it as read you didn't know where they really sit on the political spectrum.....

Well they don't have a record in government in this state so your last 72 hours rantings are bollix yeah? Glad we agree on something!

Where did I say that SF were not a left wing party?

[Lazare]

Suppose it must be some kind of phobia. Like I'd understand a vegan/vegetarian having a problem with it. My only worry with setting traps is accidentally nabbing a bird.

Yeah, I was worried about that, we have a little robin that comes in and out.

Definitely a phobia. Can hardly look at them.

[Raoul Duke III]

Where did I say that SF were not a left wing party?

You said SF are:

a party that just happens to be slightly to the left.

This is demonstrably not correct. They are far left, as shown by their likeminded buddies in Europe.

If (and I find I'm repeating myself) they truly were 'slightly to the left of centre', then they would actually be in that equivalent European group, the S&D.

[Strewelpeter]

As to where on the political spectrum SF sit, thankfully there is a very easy mechanism for establishing that. Who do they coalesce with in the European parliament? Let's see:

They're in GUE/NGL as I'm sure a devoted and learned SF supporter such as yourself fully knows. Including Podemos (far left), Syriza (), Die Linke (very far left) and, presumably for the craic, Ming Flanagan.

Portugese Communist Party, Czech Communist Party, Swedish Communists, Communist Party of Cyprus....

There's a trend in these allies of SF.

And despite all that and their election 'manifesto' the only indication of what they would actually do is from NI where they are seen to be fiscally conservative. Add to that that in practice they have always been the most conservative and authoritarian party in this state and it will be really interesting to see how this new world order plays out.

[Guest]

What’s Sinn Féin’s policy on executing bankers?

[hotspur]

I disagree with a lot of the narrative about this election.

Government looking for 3rd term + main opposition party tied to them in C&S = SF as main "change" party. I don't believe that people really like SF's policies, candidates, or that there is a swing to the left. If that were the case the European and local elections would have reflected it for SF.

SF stumbled onto a winning lottery ticket on the street.

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

...

[premierstone]

You said SF are:







This is demonstrably not correct. They are far left, as shown by their likeminded buddies in Europe.



If (and I find I'm repeating myself) they truly were 'slightly to the left of centre', then they would actually be in that equivalent European group, the S&D.

I'm actually glad that there are views like ybealturAteive us tfexexcurubude

[coillcam]

@hitch, I had a bunch of notifications on LinkedIn this morning and logged in to catch up. Low and behold who's at the top of my feed only yer man himself with a video of the thesis salting. He's almost exactly how I'd picture him.

[Guest]

@hitch, I had a bunch of notifications on LinkedIn this morning and logged in to catch up. Low and behold who's at the top of my feed only yer man himself with a video of the thesis salting. He's almost exactly how I'd picture him.

Similar experience, he was pretty much exactly as expected but the level of cringe cannot be over-exaggerated.

Expecting that may go viral on Linkedin

[ionapaul]

Stick up a link someone! Want to see this salting

[The Istanbul]

Was commenting on this over lunch today and particularly the thesis topic and someone in marketing was quite unphased. Mentioned about one of his PhDs who wanted to specialise in analysing the marketing strategy adopted by the Germans in domestically promoting the holocaust. The prof gently mentioned to him that it mightn't be the most saleable idea when it came to looking for a job afterwards.

Brilliantly told Hitch

[Mellor]

FYI Hitch

Spoiler tags hide the text/content from the visible page on screen, it's not hidden from the search engine bots that index the page.

Example

[Strewelpeter]

FYI Hitch

Spoiler tags hide the text/content from the visible page on screen, it's not hidden from the search engine bots that index the page.

Example

Don't code tags exclude search engines?

[Mellor]

Don't code tags exclude search engines?

Possibly. I’ve often seen them used as if they should. Could test it out if you could find one.
Outside the cousins place as it’s private, so should be fine regardless.

[Guest]

Beginning of a player revolt against the Stats Spivs in GAA management? Let’s hope so

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2020/01/24/news/the-gaa-world-has-become-obsessed-by-gps-stats-retired-cavan-ace-cian-mackey-1822940/

[LuckyLloyd]

The CSO is a gold mine for this stuff.

Take unemployment. 334k May 2011. 120k today.

Which is precisely the issue. People are aware that the economy is doing as well as possible, which makes them beg the question: ‘if I cannot buy a house now and I cannot afford my rent now and my parent cannot get a scan now, but when?’

And if you have your house and your private health insurance and are in one of the economic sectors thriving at present, it might be tempting to say there is no problem. But I know you’re smarter than that. You know why people aren’t happy and want change.

There seems to be two approaches: Leo saying ‘get a lend off your Da’ and shrugging the shoulders about a million impediments. Or SF and others saying ‘if we could build thousands of homes or electrify rural Ireland when we didn’t have a pot to piss in we can fix these problems’.

But don’t pretend that people are imagining their issues, because honestly it doesn’t suit you.

[Guest]

Which is precisely the issue. People are aware that the economy is doing as well as possible, which makes them beg the question: ‘if I cannot buy a house now and I cannot afford my rent now and my parent cannot get a scan now, but when?’

And if you have your house and your private health insurance and are in one of the economic sectors thriving at present, it might be tempting to say there is no problem. But I know you’re smarter than that. You know why people aren’t happy and want change.

There seems to be two approaches: Leo saying ‘get a lend off your Da’ and shrugging the shoulders about a million impediments. Or SF and others saying ‘if we could build thousands of homes or electrify rural Ireland when we didn’t have a pot to piss in we can fix these problems’.

But don’t pretend that people are imagining their issues, because honestly it doesn’t suit you.

I don't think anyone is doubting or pretending that issues -such as those DP was bemoaning in recent days- don't exist. We all know of people who have experienced them in recent years or in some cases, we have unfortunately experienced them ourselves.

That said, the idea that we have floundered under the FG/FF duopoly is simply untrue. The two most salient issues both statistically and anecdotally are housing and healthcare.

There are undoubtedly issues with both, on homes; more houses were built last year than in any time in the previous decade.

Unfortunately, Healthcare & Housing are not two issues that can be fixed overnight. As much as some of us can be accused of pretending issues don't exist, others can be accused that they're oblivious to the clearly advantageous position we have obtained globally under this duopoly, a position which has been achieved in a relatively short period of time.

[Raoul Duke III]

Which is precisely the issue. People are aware that the economy is doing as well as possible, which makes them beg the question: ‘if I cannot buy a house now and I cannot afford my rent now and my parent cannot get a scan now, but when?’

And if you have your house and your private health insurance and are in one of the economic sectors thriving at present, it might be tempting to say there is no problem. But I know you’re smarter than that. You know why people aren’t happy and want change.

There seems to be two approaches: Leo saying ‘get a lend off your Da’ and shrugging the shoulders about a million impediments. Or SF and others saying ‘if we could build thousands of homes or electrify rural Ireland when we didn’t have a pot to piss in we can fix these problems’.

But don’t pretend that people are imagining their issues, because honestly it doesn’t suit you.

I don't think people are imagining issues! I think they are over-amplifying them. The negatives are getting stressed over the positives in a completely exaggerated manner.

It's a common theme in Western democracy. And then you get Trump, Brexit etc as populists capitalise on the perceptions that everything is terrible and those in power are elitists. It's an easy sell in the current era.

Here's a statement: on balance, Ireland is one of the best countries in the world in which to live.

[Raoul Duke III]

Lloyd (or any other SF person): what is the SF position on carbon taxes?

They don't want to raise them

Looks like they're happy to drop this one straight off the bat.

How do you think SF supporters will respond to such a U turn? Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted they see the error of their ways. I'm interested in how SF supporters will react.

[pokerhand]

Beginning of a player revolt against the Stats Spivs in GAA management? Let’s hope so
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaaf...ackey-1822940/

One man opinion piece is hardly the beginning of a "revolt". Sure there is an over reliance but what will happen is that there will be a correction/balance to it in the future. They are never going away, since at the end of the day it is just a tool, the quality of it depends on the user... but you already knew that.

[Keane]

We need a radical in charge of the Custom House, the department that closed down 10,000 bedsits in 2013. We need someone who understands the appalling underperformance of that department and the local authorities. We need someone whose colleagues at the cabinet table understand there is a crisis. We need someone who knows that all socio-economic classes are demanding radical action to give them and their children the prospect of a decent life.

We need someone who understands that citizens’ rights come before those of land hoarders, vulture funds and REITs. We need someone who understands that property rights are intended for the protection and wellbeing of the majority – not the few.

So if a new government is to take office, we need radical change in the Custom House and in city and county halls. And we need a person to drive that radical change.

We are now approaching the centenary of the burning of the Custom House by the forces of revolution. We shouldn’t be surprised if people are demanding a metaphorical destruction of a system that has abjectly failed us.

"Well-known left-wing nutjob Michael McDowell exaggerates housing issues"

[Wombatman]

[Wombatman]

Woops. On the phone. Sorry about the size.

[ComradeCollie]

Prince William coming over for a visit next month https://www.thesun.ie/news/5087456/p...visit-ireland/

[bohsman]

Bohs becoming experts at marketing themselves recently. Latest effort:

[balfejohn]

Prince William coming over for a visit next month https://www.thesun.ie/news/5087456/p...visit-ireland/

I hope Andrew comes with him instead of the wife
Will he be meeting the Ra

[Solksjaer!]

Prince William coming over for a visit next month https://www.thesun.ie/news/5087456/p...visit-ireland/

Now we are all Shinners we call him Willie Windsor.

[Goodluck2me]

If they offended in the first place. Why, though, is that preferable to life in prison?

Just curious, I think yourself and Murdrum said Capital punishment isn’t cheaper than imprisonment? How is that the case?

Throw up a copy of the FG manifest from 5 years ago and we see how they got on.

We have had a 100 years of a stuttering duopoly that are at this stage pretty indistinguishable from each other surely any rational thinking person can agree or at the very least accept that it's high time to give someone else a shot at it??

Look at the progress of the previous 100 years also.

RBB on the radio last week gave me a really good laugh when he was talking about building 60k houses on public land. Fully built using state employed labour.

'They will be happy to be in full time employment'. How can anyone be that fucking stupid?

I once witnessed a bunch of state employed painters in Beamount hospital spend close on 200 hours labour painting about 12 radiators. About 4 hours work if they were paid per radiator.
Human nature in an individualist society. Only the market can build at speed.

What are SF's plans for these 100k houses?

Completely agree, unless the state were to act like a normal employer to get builders to work efficiently I.e. sack under performers then it won’t work.

It’s like the discussion on the banks, we need them to pay more tax... ignoring the fact they already pay large levies, and we own the Majority of 2 of them and a decent slug of the best one thereby cutting our nose to spite our face.

[Raoul Duke III]

It’s like the discussion on the banks, we need them to pay more tax... ignoring the fact they already pay large levies, and we own the Majority of 2 of them and a decent slug of the best one thereby cutting our nose to spite our face.

The discussion about the banks isn't really about the banks.

It's about having a framework (legal, tax, political) that corporations can rely on. If we start changing that, for example by totally rewriting the rules around DTAs as above or, indeed whacking high earners with even higher rates of income tax, then confidence in that framework dissipates.

Then FDI flows start reversing. Corporation Tax receipts fall. Income Tax receipts fall. Unemployment goes up.

And congratulations, the golden goose is dead.

[Guest]

Just curious, I think yourself and Murdrum said Capital punishment isn’t cheaper than imprisonment? How is that the case?

Just Kayroo I believe, I'm just not into the killing irrespective of the economics

Look at the progress of the previous 100 years also.


Completely agree, unless the state were to act like a normal employer to get builders to work efficiently I.e. sack under performers then it won’t work.

It’s like the discussion on the banks, we need them to pay more tax... ignoring the fact they already pay large levies, and we own the Majority of 2 of them and a decent slug of the best one thereby cutting our nose to spite our face.

My boss mentioned to me yesterday that Krugman has relatively recently advocated for an increase in the effective corporate tax in Ireland.
He suggested something to the effect of; given Brexit, our skilled workforce and company tenure in Ireland, the juggernauts would be willing to absorb a certain increase as it would be more beneficial than moving assets abroad.

I'll ask him where he saw it as I don't know the details, perhaps it was mentioned at Kilkenomics but interesting nonetheless.

[ArmaniJeans]

Just curious, I think yourself and Murdrum said Capital punishment isn’t cheaper than imprisonment? How is that the case?


Look at the progress of the previous 100 years also.

It depends on the model. There's the cheap method (lets say China) where the sentence gets carried out within months after a limited appeals process.

On the other hand there's an expensive model (e.g., America) where the sentence often takes 10-20 years to be carried out whilst the accused is in a death-row cell that costs more than if they were in general population.

Meanwhile in the background teams of lawyers and advocates file appeal after appeal which the State and court system have to continually respond to and process. Some state's even employ 'devils advocates' whose job it is to look for reasons why the sentence shouldn't be carried out. This is all before the actual execution itself employs a big team of people so is a sizeable cost

When you sum all this up, it generally comes to more than just throwing someone in gen pop for 40 years.

[Goodluck2me]

It depends on the model. There's the cheap method (lets say China) where the sentence gets carried out within months after a limited appeals process.

On the other hand there's an expensive model (e.g., America) where the sentence often takes 10-20 years to be carried out whilst the accused is in a death-row cell that costs more than if they were in general population.

Meanwhile in the background teams of lawyers and advocates file appeal after appeal which the State and court system have to continually respond to and process. Some state's even employ 'devils advocates' whose job it is to look for reasons why the sentence shouldn't be carried out. This is all before the actual execution itself employs a big team of people so is a sizeable cost

When you sum all this up, it generally comes to more than just throwing someone in gen pop for 40 years.

Thanks, that’s v interesting, I had this notion executioners must be on massive wages to counter the 70k/year a prisoner costs.

[Jibzzzz]

Pleasant Airport experience for me today.

Left the office at 12.45 and was sitting in the lounge post Preclearence by 2pm.

[Goodluck2me]

Just Kayroo I believe, I'm just not into the killing irrespective of the economics



My boss mentioned to me yesterday that Krugman has relatively recently advocated for an increase in the effective corporate tax in Ireland.
He suggested something to the effect of; given Brexit, our skilled workforce and company tenure in Ireland, the juggernauts would be willing to absorb a certain increase as it would be more beneficial than moving assets abroad.

I'll ask him where he saw it as I don't know the details, perhaps it was mentioned at Kilkenomics but interesting nonetheless.

The laffer curve I’m sure applies just as well to corporation tax as income tax, i think the attractiveness of the headline rate and most importantly, as RD3 alluded to, the certainty of it especially keeping it through the crisis, means id be hugely in favor of it.
When the OECD and BEPS measures are brought it in means we’ve build a solid critical mass whilst being seen to rail against, which should yield higher taxes in future.
I don’t think it’s too much to say that is probably the most important line in our taxation p&l, the destruction of which would have massive consequences.

[balfejohn]

The discussion about the banks isn't really about the banks.

It's about having a framework (legal, tax, political) that corporations can rely on. If we start changing that, for example by totally rewriting the rules around DTAs as above or, indeed whacking high earners with even higher rates of income tax, then confidence in that framework dissipates.

Then FDI flows start reversing. Corporation Tax receipts fall. Income Tax receipts fall. Unemployment goes up.

And congratulations, the golden goose is dead.

What if they do make it work although most of us think not
How would you feel