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**eamonhonda** · 26-10-12, 16:58

Folding to re raise on flop every time. Trickier on the river to find the fold

**Carl_Morrissey** · 26-10-12, 17:01

Pre-flop is fine, don't quite get the flop c/r? Thought process on the flop c/r with no reads?

**sligoboi** · 26-10-12, 17:03

Whats the point of the flop c/r?

Check/call flop, check/call turn and river decision becomes a lot easier- going for a c/r a decent % of the time.

As played I call but I never get there that way.

**KK82** · 26-10-12, 17:06

I'd always check/call the flop there. Why build a big pot OOP with just top pair? You fold out his bluffs and allow him to build a big pot with hands that have you crushed. Check call all the way for me.

**Opr** · 26-10-12, 17:14

I'd c/c but once you play it this way I would just pump it on the flop after his raise and get it in. Sometimes he has the nut draw or even dominated flush draw but you're never a huge dog.

Opr

**mickste** · 26-10-12, 17:14

What KK said Andrew

**Micknail** · 26-10-12, 17:14

Before calling the river you should wait for his answer.

**LTL** · 26-10-12, 17:16

We're 200bb's deep and I'm certainly not afraid of building a pot here to a standard cbet. May get more value from 88>QQ with the c/r as well as worse flush draws given that the standard line of a villain will be to check back all these hands on turn. Obviously not thinking I'm ahead once villain 4bets but being so deep I think a call here is fine.

The more I think about the turn the more I think it's a fold given that my hand is fairly face up once I flat turn oop.

Is literally no one c/r flop here 200bbs deep?

**mickste** · 26-10-12, 17:25

Whats the point of cr the flop oop? It creates the next two streets much harder to play and as you described the turn action is more than likely a fold because of the way you have played the flop. If you take your line you should be willing to get it in rather than having to play the next two streets oop.

**Carl_Morrissey** · 26-10-12, 17:27

Originally posted by LTL View Post

We're 200bb's deep and I'm certainly not afraid of building a pot here to a standard cbet. May get more value from 88>QQ with the c/r as well as worse flush draws given that the standard line of a villain will be to check back all these hands on turn. Obviously not thinking I'm ahead once villain 4bets but being so deep I think a call here is fine.

The more I think about the turn the more I think it's a fold given that my hand is fairly face up once I flat turn oop.

Is literally no one c/r flop here 200bbs deep?

Villain 3 bet the flop no? Yeah you're deep but if your planning a c/r you should be very aware of what your going to do if villain 3 bets you. IMO you took the worst option in calling because then you leave yourself open to exactly what happened, being value towned on turn and river.

**Guest** · 26-10-12, 17:32

Dont think a check raise here is bad at all you polarize your opponents range while also taking the betting lead, however in doing what you did on the flop, by calling the 4bet your hand is kind of face up imo, based on that I am more likely to fold the turn when hr barrels the turn.

However as played its quite tight but I think a fold is correct you're really only beating AK maybe or possibly a the busted nut flushdraw

***PocketRockets*** · 01-11-12, 12:14

Incredible how similar this is to Sylvia v Abrahams in the WSOP ME this year.

Abrahams had Kd Jd, Sylvia 7x 7x, flop Kh 7d 3d!

They got it all in either post flop or post turn, 40m pot. Diamond never came here either.

**LightDrum** · 02-11-12, 23:59

check raising flop is fine

the way the hand played out however I would chuck the turn.

Villains turn bet sizing is not really protective of his hand on such a drawy board

**Hectorjelly** · 05-11-12, 01:58

Flop CR is silly, why create a big pot here out of position. Its hard to get called down by worse hands. Calling the 3bet is ridiculous.

There are times where you can profitably cr top pair, but this isn't one of them.

**The Aul Switcharoo** · 05-11-12, 09:17

Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post

Flop CR is silly, why create a big pot here out of position. Its hard to get called down by worse hands. Calling the 3bet is ridiculous.

There are times where you can profitably cr top pair, but this isn't one of them.

He had a FD too...

**40something** · 05-11-12, 10:55

The thread title asks is the river a call or fold.

Answer: call.

Presumably you only got to the river because of the FD carrott and then you spike 2 pair. It is perfectly reasonable to have him on AK / KQ LOTS of time as villan has played it EXACTLY like this all streets.

The fact he has a set, wp him.

As for the c/r on the flop, I like it, I just hate the re-pop

edit: Just saw your chat comment before the call. FFS, if you put him on 7s why call knowing you lost?

New answer to q: FOLD if you think he has you beat.

**Bozzer** · 05-11-12, 11:13

Originally posted by LTL View Post

We're 200bb's deep and I'm certainly not afraid of building a pot here to a standard cbet. May get more value from 88>QQ with the c/r as well as worse flush draws given that the standard line of a villain will be to check back all these hands on turn. Obviously not thinking I'm ahead once villain 4bets but being so deep I think a call here is fine.

The more I think about the turn the more I think it's a fold given that my hand is fairly face up once I flat turn oop.

Is literally no one c/r flop here 200bbs deep?

Flop c/r is really poor with 300bb stacks. It’s so much more important to have the nut draw this deep, so building a big pot oop with the 2nd nut draw is not smart. Targetting 88-QQ with the c/r doesn't make sense – you should expect those hands to fold a ton given positions and board texture. Plus he should have more NFDs than dominated fd's given where he opened from.

A flop c/r could be somewhat defensible vs a really wide button opener who can have plenty of weaker Kx (and worse pairs) to bet-call on the flop but that’s obviously not the case here (utg+2 vs bb).

**jazzyfish** · 05-11-12, 12:52

if your playing against good players your hand is nearly face up hear ,,, like there is no bluffs in your range you have to keep everything balanced the only bluffs that can be in your range hear is 86 and flush draw so when you do get 3 bet hear its so obv your dead in the water ,, because he no s its 80% of the time gonna be your vaule range ,, and then calling is a joke beacuse your hand is so face up even if you do hit your flush this deep your not getting paid ever against any decent player

**Irish-kopite** · 06-11-12, 06:20

Fold pre flop all the time.

As played call flop.
But as I said fold preflop as now you are out of position with a very marginal hand and theres a flush draw on board and you have floped top pair.9handed this is a dirty spot and you should avoid them unless you have a serious read on him.

Raising the flop accomplishes nothing.He folds his bluffs,calls with his draws and calls with his hand that beat you.He raises some draws and hands that destroy you so when we continue we have to be sure he has a draw.

Again we are out of position so guessing and hoping he has a draw is horrible(fold preflop!)

On the turn he value bets the bag out of us..Its a foldhere all the time.He will bet more aggro with draws and sometimes check back but here he is betting for value with a monster.

On river(we shouldnt be here) fold.You knew his hand so why did you fold? Great read but you can do that all the time and still be a loser.

**Laois Hammer** · 06-11-12, 07:05

Originally posted by Irish-kopite View Post

Fold pre flop all the time.

Joking surely?

**Laois Hammer** · 06-11-12, 07:06

I dont really like the check raise either, KK sums up it up

**Wesley Harms** · 06-11-12, 07:49

Originally posted by Irish-kopite View Post

Fold pre flop all the time.

As played call flop.
But as I said fold preflop as now you are out of position with a very marginal hand and theres a flush draw on board and you have floped top pair.9handed this is a dirty spot and you should avoid them unless you have a serious read on him.

Raising the flop accomplishes nothing.He folds his bluffs,calls with his draws and calls with his hand that beat you.He raises some draws and hands that destroy you so when we continue we have to be sure he has a draw.

Again we are out of position so guessing and hoping he has a draw is horrible(fold preflop!)

On the turn he value bets the bag out of us..Its a foldhere all the time.He will bet more aggro with draws and sometimes check back but here he is betting for value with a monster.

On river(we shouldnt be here) fold.You knew his hand so why did you fold? Great read but you can do that all the time and still be a loser.

Originally posted by Laois Hammer View Post

Joking surely?

Surely the whole post is a level

**Irish-kopite** · 08-11-12, 00:20

Originally posted by Howard Finkel View Post

Surely the whole post is a level

LOL

Posting this hand analysis while drunk and only can see now that he had KdJd which makes a huge difference.

Excuse my ignorance.haha

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