Irish Poker Boards
Register Arcade FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Irish Poker Boards > Poker > Poker Theory, Strategy and Rulings > Tournament Poker
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 17-01-11, 19:10   #1
Caf
Member
 
Caf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 5,415
Tricky AA v SB(blaaaaaah) and BB in $25k

This hand is from the $109 $25k gtd DS(10kSS-15min levels) on ipoker.

8/45 with 30 paid and 45k --->rough guesses.

1250/2500/250 (9 handed)

Hero: 86.4k
SB: 32.3k
BB: 45.1k


3 folds, Hero AdAh raises to 5750, 3 folds, SB and BB call.

Flop(19500): Kc, 10c, 9c

SB checks, BB snap ships 39.1k

Hero?

SB is blaaaaaah off here, I just wasn't typing that all the way through the hand, so obviously a very competent player.

No info on BB.

I thought it might make for a interesting thread and also want to hear what people think and do in this spot.
Caf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-11, 19:18   #2
Emmet
Bashful the next day
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 16,780
dump it. any pair with a club second card is ahead of you here. And with a player to act behind you too.

Flop better next time
Emmet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-11, 19:19   #3
BallymoreChris
Member
 
BallymoreChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,642
Call ???
Not sure why you would consider folding really.
BallymoreChris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-11, 19:22   #4
BallymoreChris
Member
 
BallymoreChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,642
Read the hand 4 times and never realised there was 3 clubs out there.
Still calling though.
BallymoreChris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-11, 19:25   #5
Flushdraw
The Gamesmaster
 
Flushdraw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Swieqi, Sunny Malta
Posts: 22,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet View Post
dump it. any pair with a club second card is ahead of you here. And with a player to act behind you too.

Flop better next time
So if he holds something like KhJc for top pair and 4 to a flush/straight (or any other similar combo), we're still over 40% to win the hand and it's 39k to win 59k. He could also have any 2 pair, but also have the bare Ac in his hand. It's close and i'd defo time down thinking about it but i'd ship over the top
Flushdraw is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Thanks From:
Old 17-01-11, 19:49   #6
Charlie Harper
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 550
Dont think he ships wit the flush,prob has flush draw wit pair or nut flush draw, id call hard 1 though
Charlie Harper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-11, 19:56   #7
gorrrr72
Member
 
gorrrr72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Future
Posts: 2,906
Ugh, call. You are never in great shape and could be dead to runner runner if he has the old suited connectors but I still sigh & call.
gorrrr72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-11, 20:08   #8
ferg
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,487
hardly shippin with a made flush....could play this with the bare AcX....could be as flushdraw said....could even be the old flatted pre KK and shippin to fold out the AcX....

think id call tho
ferg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-11, 20:44   #9
gorrrr72
Member
 
gorrrr72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Future
Posts: 2,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferg View Post
hardly shippin with a made flush....could play this with the bare AcX....could be as flushdraw said....could even be the old flatted pre KK and shippin to fold out the AcX....

think id call tho
I ship here with a low flush, as well as pair & nut FD, made straight, set and 2 pair. Not everytime but a lot of the time.

Maybe I ship with KxQc. Depends on reads though.
gorrrr72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-11, 21:14   #10
Bubbleking
Always loved Keano
 
Bubbleking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,133
I call and ask for a club fade
Bubbleking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-11, 22:47   #11
bustamoves
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 512
easy call. standard flip the vast majority of the time i'd be thinking.
bustamoves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-11, 23:33   #12
Mellor
Member
 
Mellor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 10,332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet View Post
dump it. any pair with a club second card is ahead of you here. And with a player to act behind you too.
We don't need to be ahead to call profitably.
I take this verses KxQc or AcKx (which is better still). Which is the bulk of his range as I don't think a good player ships the flopped flush into the PFR
Quote:
Originally Posted by gorrrr72 View Post
I ship here with a low flush, as well as pair & nut FD, made straight, set and 2 pair. Not everytime but a lot of the time.

Maybe I ship with KxQc. Depends on reads though.
Why would you ship a made flush?
KxQc is a far better hand to ship than the nut FD, its even better than top pair/nfd combo
__________________
Mellor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-11, 00:50   #13
gorrrr72
Member
 
gorrrr72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Future
Posts: 2,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mellor View Post
We don't need to be ahead to call profitably.
I take this verses KxQc or AcKx (which is better still). Which is the bulk of his range as I don't think a good player ships the flopped flush into the PFR

[B]Why would you ship a made flush?[/B

]KxQc is a far better hand to ship than the nut FD, its even better than top pair/nfd combo
I would ship a low made flush here (sometimes) if I was in Blaaaaah's position because it's unlikely that you will get your chips in good on the turn.

If I don't ship I donk bet a large amount, at least 3/4 pot and hope someone ships.

If you get called you are flipping anyway, unless a made straight or AA (no club) calls you. (Which mostly don't fold to the shove anyway but fold to a club on the turn)

I don't understand the 2nd part there when you say KxQc is a better hand to ship with than AcKx.
gorrrr72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-11, 01:20   #14
Mellor
Member
 
Mellor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 10,332
Quote:
Originally Posted by gorrrr72 View Post
I would ship a low made flush here (sometimes) if I was in Blaaaaah's position because it's unlikely that you will get your chips in good on the turn.

If I don't ship I donk bet a large amount, at least 3/4 pot and hope someone ships.
If the turn isn't a club 9it won't be most of the time) then you are getting your chips in good, or taking down the pot.

Check rasing the flop is better open shipping

Quote:
If you get called you are flipping anyway, unless a made straight or AA (no club) calls you. (Which mostly don't fold to the shove anyway but fold to a club on the turn)
what?
How is a made flush flipping with any hand?

Quote:
I don't understand the 2nd part there when you say KxQc is a better hand to ship with than AcKx
Because a straight draw and a flush draw has more equity when called than just a flush draw.
Obviously this assumes that hands > TP call, which is a fair assumption imo
__________________

Last edited by Mellor; 18-01-11 at 01:47.
Mellor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-11, 09:09   #15
ferg
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by gorrrr72 View Post
I would ship a low made flush here (sometimes) if I was in Blaaaaah's position because it's unlikely that you will get your chips in good on the turn.

Am i reading the OP right, Blaaaaaah hasnt shipped....its the BB that shipped.....blaaaaaah would have to act after we call......
ferg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-11, 09:18   #16
Alfie
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 234
Did you call and then blaaaaah overcalled with a flopped flush and that's the only reason you're posting this?

Obviously call the shove on the flop.
Alfie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-11, 09:56   #17
gorrrr72
Member
 
gorrrr72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Future
Posts: 2,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mellor View Post
If the turn isn't a club 9it won't be most of the time) then you are getting your chips in good, or taking down the pot.

Check rasing the flop is better open shipping


what?
How is a made flush flipping with any hand?


Because a straight draw and a flush draw has more equity when called than just a flush draw.
Obviously this assumes that hands > TP call, which is a fair assumption imo
Ugh, read the hand wrong, I thought Blaaaaah had shipped circa 30k into 20k which is what I would do with a small flush and 2 players to act behind in a raised pot.

I was flippant with my flipping comment, of course you should be ahead at least 65/35% not quite a flip. Unless you are already dead, which is too rare to worry about.

Reading the hand again being the BB with 45k I wouldn't c/r a small flush because strong non flushdraw hands that may call or shove over a bet might check behind.
gorrrr72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-11, 10:21   #18
ferg
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by gorrrr72 View Post
Ugh, read the hand wrong, I thought Blaaaaah had shipped circa 30k into 20k which is what I would do with a small flush and 2 players to act behind in a raised pot.
If blaaaaah has the made flush dont ya think he's played it perfectly....money on for the triple up.....
ferg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-11, 10:40   #19
gorrrr72
Member
 
gorrrr72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Future
Posts: 2,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferg View Post
If blaaaaah has the made flush dont ya think he's played it perfectly....money on for the triple up.....
True, but that's results based thinking imo.

If I have the low made flush, my hand can't get any better, only worse. Don't give any free cards, especially with 2 players to act behind.

If they have strong hands containing high flushdraw cards they are going in anyway.

If it's checked around and the board 4 flushes you have to drop your hand to significant action.
Plus if it pairs or another straight card comes AA is not getting it in. 2 Pair on the flop won't want to know either. Try and get it in now when the possibility of getting action while your ahead is best.
gorrrr72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-11, 10:46   #20
Caf
Member
 
Caf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 5,415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfie View Post
Did you call and then blaaaaah overcalled with a flopped flush and that's the only reason you're posting this?

Obviously call the shove on the flop.
Get real please, such a stupid comment. Comments like above tilt the shit out of me and shouldn't be made here imo unless it's clear that someone has posted a bad beat and is looking for a moan. GTFO. Look through my posts/threads, a lot of them are in this section and a lot are way off the mark but none as stupid or ignorant as yours above. You call, you know you should call, no need to be such a dick.

You think I based it on the result? Did I say at any stage say what action I took in the hand? There result is irrelevant(whether you understand that or not) and there is nothing obvious about this hand to me. Why would I post it if it was so obvious to me what to do?
Caf is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Thanks From:
Reply

  Irish Poker Boards > Poker > Poker Theory, Strategy and Rulings > Tournament Poker

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 13:55.