Irish Poker Boards
Register Arcade FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Irish Poker Boards > Poker > Poker Theory, Strategy and Rulings > Tournament Poker
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-04-12, 23:18   #1
shano_88
Member
 
shano_88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: casatroi
Posts: 3,083
IO AK getting 3bet

Started the Hand with 45k and the blinds are 500/1k/100.
Were into the second level of day 2 and I have a tough enough table draw with Sean Prendiville and Andy Black to my direct left who both cover.
Recent History: Sean Prendeville has 3bet me 3/4 last times Ive opened. He 3b bu vs co and cbet a k66 board and I check/called blank turn check/check and he potted a river Ace and I payed off to be shown A10 and he squeezed in the Bb vs Sb and Bu and showed Aces.


I raise Ako utg to 2.2k and Sean 3bets to 5.1k next to act. Its folded back around to me. Whats your play from here?
shano_88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-12, 23:32   #2
Arazi
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 936
If blinds are 500/1000 we are talking about only the 2nd level of the day and he's 3bet u 3 times already, to do it again in EP with others behind who will have spotted the dynamic strikes me that his range "should" be quite strong but I'd still have this as wide as 9s+ and AJ+, less likely @ the lower end.
In saying that you have to play back at him at some point and u can't really 4bet fold your stack so shoving is an option against this villain oop.
I'd prob fold it thou.
Arazi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-12, 23:35   #3
zuutroy
Minor Local Celebrity
 
zuutroy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,743
I 10.9k call and love it.
__________________
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” - Bertrand Russell
zuutroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks From:
Old 12-04-12, 23:40   #4
max_power
Member
 
max_power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,117
Yeah I was thinking 3b call, hoping to induce some lighter shoves.

You've said it is a tough table; if you're not that comfortable playing pots with these guys (not saying you're not btw) looks like a great spot to get em in and take a flip/be way ahead. Unlucky if you run into a monster.
max_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-12, 23:46   #5
jazzyfish
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by shano_88 View Post
Started the Hand with 45k and the blinds are 500/1k/100.
Were into the second level of day 2 and I have a tough enough table draw with Sean Prendiville and Andy Black to my direct left who both cover.
Recent History: Sean Prendeville has 3bet me 3/4 last times Ive opened. He 3b bu vs co and cbet a k66 board and I check/called blank turn check/check and he potted a river Ace and I payed off to be shown A10 and he squeezed in the Bb vs Sb and Bu and showed Aces.


I raise Ako utg to 2.2k and Sean 3bets to 5.1k next to act. Its folded back around to me. Whats your play from here?
its a tricky spot theres not really a right answer you could make a case for making it 8k and folding to a 5 bet he s to agro to flat pre and play oop if you think he has AQ in his early p 3 betting range then you can make a case for shoving for max vaule
jazzyfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-12, 23:51   #6
Daragh999
Member
 
Daragh999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 753
Send a message via AIM to Daragh999 Send a message via Skype™ to Daragh999
Previous history makes me think Sean has a good hand this time, but I have played a decent amount with him and I can safely say folding is not an option. I prob 4bet to between 12-14k to get it in. The other option is just to flat and I wouldn't hate it in this spot given we will always get 1 or 2 bets out of him on A/K high boards. Think it depends heavily on your read of him and his hand range in this spot.
__________________
They will be like WTF how does he always have the top of his range, and they will be saying that when you show up with like nine's - Jimmy Fricke
Nine's are the top of my range - Shaun Deeb
Daragh999 is offline   Reply With Quote
3 Thanks From:
Old 12-04-12, 23:52   #7
NuckChorris
Member
 
NuckChorris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Sandy Shores
Posts: 3,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by max_power View Post
Yeah I was thinking 3b call
+1 on this line. (although it's a 4b).
NuckChorris is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks From:
Old 12-04-12, 23:53   #8
Arazi
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 936
Do we really think Sean Prenderville is likely to 5 bet shove worse than AK against an utg raiser who is a sole survivor who has shown a tendancy to play tight for more than an average stack at this stage of the tournament? I would think its unlikely, not impossible but unlikely. Also the danger with a small reraise is him cold calling light (which he'd also be likely to do with AA, KK) and outplaying us or flopping huge at a later stage.
Arazi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-12, 23:54   #9
Arazi
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daragh999 View Post
Previous history makes me think Sean has a good hand this time, but I have played a decent amount with him and I can safely say folding is not an option. I prob 4bet to between 12-14k to get it in. The other option is just to flat and I wouldn't hate it in this spot given we will always get 1 or 2 bets out of him on A/K high boards. Think it depends heavily on your read of him and his hand range in this spot.
Why is folding not an option?
Arazi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-12, 23:56   #10
shano_88
Member
 
shano_88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: casatroi
Posts: 3,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuutroy View Post
I 10.9k call and love it.
What do you think he is gonna 3b/5b utg vs utg +1 that you can love getting it in?
shano_88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-04-12, 00:00   #11
zuutroy
Minor Local Celebrity
 
zuutroy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,743
I love the 4b in that he folds a ton of hands with good equity, and I don't mind when he 5 bets because we still prob have 50%+ equity when you factor in occasional 5b bluff jams. 4b/call is a mile in front of any other option. I think a dwell and small 4b is a great line to get an occasional spazz in his jamming range too.
__________________
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” - Bertrand Russell
zuutroy is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Thanks From:
Old 13-04-12, 00:03   #12
Daragh999
Member
 
Daragh999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 753
Send a message via AIM to Daragh999 Send a message via Skype™ to Daragh999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arazi View Post
Why is folding not an option?
Lol, cause he is one of the top 5 most aggro tourney players in Ireland. If you are just folding AK to a 3bet from him even in these positions he will steamroll you.
__________________
They will be like WTF how does he always have the top of his range, and they will be saying that when you show up with like nine's - Jimmy Fricke
Nine's are the top of my range - Shaun Deeb
Daragh999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-04-12, 00:10   #13
Arazi
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 936
That's dreadful logic really IMO and takes no factoring of any type of table history, dynamics or position. In fact it's the line we'd take against an uber aggressive hyperdonk. Folding here and giving up less than 5% of our stack given dynamics and position is definitely an option
Arazi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-04-12, 00:11   #14
shano_88
Member
 
shano_88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: casatroi
Posts: 3,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daragh999 View Post
Lol, cause he is one of the top 5 most aggro tourney players in Ireland. If you are just folding AK to a 3bet from him even in these positions he will steamroll you.
The only real history between us is in the op as we had only played an hour and he had been pretty much running over the table for the hour. I still didnt expect him to 3bet too light in this spot for value so his value 3betting range was maybe JJ+, AK+ in my head at the time.. Im sure he has bluffs in his range aswell though. So i guess 4bet/call and hope he thinks Im just playing back?
shano_88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-04-12, 00:16   #15
Daragh999
Member
 
Daragh999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 753
Send a message via AIM to Daragh999 Send a message via Skype™ to Daragh999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arazi View Post
That's dreadful logic really IMO and takes no factoring of any type of table history, dynamics or position. In fact it's the line we'd take against an uber aggressive hyperdonk. Folding here and giving up less than 5% of our stack given dynamics and position is definitely an option
And assuming sean has a nutted range just cause he has 3bet an UTG raiser isn't much better logic sir!!! Whatever u decide to do its gonna be a really close decision hence why it's such a tough spot.
__________________
They will be like WTF how does he always have the top of his range, and they will be saying that when you show up with like nine's - Jimmy Fricke
Nine's are the top of my range - Shaun Deeb
Daragh999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks From:
Old 13-04-12, 00:22   #16
max_power
Member
 
max_power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arazi View Post
Do we really think Sean Prenderville is likely to 5 bet shove worse than AK against an utg raiser who is a sole survivor who has shown a tendancy to play tight for more than an average stack at this stage of the tournament? I would think its unlikely, not impossible but unlikely. Also the danger with a small reraise is him cold calling light (which he'd also be likely to do with AA, KK) and outplaying us or flopping huge at a later stage.
We have approx 1 psb left if we go 14k pre and he flats.
max_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-04-12, 00:23   #17
DrJFF
Member
 
DrJFF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,683
how active have you been? has he won every pot he has 3bet you previously? you say he's 3bet you 3 or 4 times already,

in a vacuum it is hard to even consider a fold button vs. said opponent, how much does he cover you by? i don't know whether i prefer 4bet/calling or just shipping here
__________________
http://drjff.blogspot.com/
DrJFF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-04-12, 00:24   #18
Arazi
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 936
I'm not advocating his range is nutted at all but his 5betting range would be close to nutted against OP's image hence why I don't like 4bet calling as much as folding.
I think AKQJ10 posted a very similar thread to this over a year back following a discussion with Nick Heather?
Arazi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-04-12, 00:27   #19
shano_88
Member
 
shano_88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: casatroi
Posts: 3,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJFF View Post
how active have you been? has he won every pot he has 3bet you previously? you say he's 3bet you 3 or 4 times already,

in a vacuum it is hard to even consider a fold button vs. said opponent, how much does he cover you by? i don't know whether i prefer 4bet/calling or just shipping here
Pretty active for the first 30 mins where I picked up a few hands but didnt go to showdown. I think he had 3bet me the last 3 times I opened and won all 3. Twice I folded pre and the other time I paid off a river bet when he rivered top pair. He has ~100k.
shano_88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-04-12, 00:28   #20
DrJFF
Member
 
DrJFF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,683
Quote:
Originally Posted by shano_88 View Post
Pretty active for the first 30 mins where I picked up a few hands but didnt go to showdown. I think he had 3bet me the last 3 times I opened and won all 3. Twice I folded pre and the other time I paid off a river bet when he rivered top pair. He has ~100k.
i shove then
__________________
http://drjff.blogspot.com/
DrJFF is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Irish Poker Boards > Poker > Poker Theory, Strategy and Rulings > Tournament Poker

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 07:24.