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Should i fold this ? edinburgh sat on stars

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    Should i fold this ? edinburgh sat on stars

    PokerStars Game #47533926120: Tournament #294069593, £75+£7 GBP Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2010/07/31 22:05:19 WET [2010/07/31 17:05:19 ET]
    Table '294069593 5' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
    Seat 1: superowl99 (15388 in chips)
    Seat 2: AntManB (4164 in chips)
    Seat 3: SeeYouAnte18 (17234 in chips)
    Seat 4: Irishguy2 (17575 in chips)
    Seat 5: Bari_86 (11032 in chips)
    Seat 6: jaccobite (10757 in chips)
    Seat 7: Tervaaja (5055 in chips)
    Seat 8: u12jg (18211 in chips)
    Seat 9: MartinSaar (4675 in chips)
    superowl99: posts the ante 25
    AntManB: posts the ante 25
    SeeYouAnte18: posts the ante 25
    Irishguy2: posts the ante 25
    Bari_86: posts the ante 25
    jaccobite: posts the ante 25
    Tervaaja: posts the ante 25
    u12jg: posts the ante 25
    MartinSaar: posts the ante 25
    SeeYouAnte18: posts small blind 125
    Irishguy2: posts big blind 250
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Irishguy2 [As Kc]
    Bari_86: folds
    jaccobite: folds
    Tervaaja: folds
    u12jg: folds
    MartinSaar: folds
    superowl99: raises 500 to 750
    AntManB: raises 3389 to 4139 and is all-in
    SeeYouAnte18: folds
    Irishguy2: ?
    superowl99: ?


    40 left 10 seats


    sorry bout the non conversion. an error kept coming up .

    anyway whats the move here in the BB
    You got to have a lot of balls, to play golf the way I do!

    #2
    PokerStars Game #47534271181: Tournament #294069593, £75+£7 GBP Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2010/07/31 22:13:21 WET [2010/07/31 17:13:21 ET]
    Table '294069593 5' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
    Seat 1: superowl99 (9199 in chips)
    Seat 2: AntManB (10078 in chips)
    Seat 3: SeeYouAnte18 (16484 in chips)
    Seat 4: Irishguy2 (16700 in chips)
    Seat 5: Bari_86 (11097 in chips)
    Seat 6: jaccobite (10132 in chips)
    Seat 7: Tervaaja (4655 in chips)
    Seat 8: u12jg (21696 in chips)
    Seat 9: MartinSaar (4050 in chips)
    superowl99: posts the ante 25
    AntManB: posts the ante 25
    SeeYouAnte18: posts the ante 25
    Irishguy2: posts the ante 25
    Bari_86: posts the ante 25
    jaccobite: posts the ante 25
    Tervaaja: posts the ante 25
    u12jg: posts the ante 25
    MartinSaar: posts the ante 25
    Irishguy2: posts small blind 125
    Bari_86: posts big blind 250
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Irishguy2 [Qh Qs]
    jaccobite: raises 561 to 811
    Tervaaja: folds
    u12jg: calls 811
    MartinSaar: folds
    superowl99: folds
    AntManB: raises 1939 to 2750
    SeeYouAnte18: folds
    Irishguy2: ???

    what to do here ?

    I have no stats . and no reads really only at the table about two orbits
    You got to have a lot of balls, to play golf the way I do!

    Comment


      #3
      In hand 1 I would shove. It's a long way to the bubble and you still need to accumulate chips. You don't want UTG or anyone else calling light behind, so it's a straightforward shove and the most likely outcome is you take a flip against the guy with 5k chips.

      In hand 2 it would depend on the number of players left and the average stack. More infos please.
      "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

      Comment


        #4
        I shove both hands. Hand 1 is easy, hand 2 could get multiway if you flat.
        'Mental Toughness is doing the right thing for the team when it's not the best thing for you' - Bill Belichick

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by AndyFB View Post
          In hand 1 I would shove. It's a long way to the bubble and you still need to accumulate chips. You don't want UTG or anyone else calling light behind, so it's a straightforward shove and the most likely outcome is you take a flip against the guy with 5k chips.

          In hand 2 it would depend on the number of players left and the average stack. More infos please.
          Hand 2 is only 8 minutes after hand 1 so they would be about the same.

          Comment


            #6
            shove both

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by AndyFB View Post
              In hand 1 I would shove. It's a long way to the bubble and you still need to accumulate chips. You don't want UTG or anyone else calling light behind, so it's a straightforward shove and the most likely outcome is you take a flip against the guy with 5k chips.

              In hand 2 it would depend on the number of players left and the average stack. More infos please.
              Hand 2 is only 8 mins after Hand 1. Tony obv folded Hand 1 and AntManB doubled up.

              I shove hand 1. Even after 2 orbits, you should have some sort of read on the players. It's a cut off raise and a button shove. It's a situation where AK is good a lot of the time so i'm happy to get it in while still a long way to go for tickets.

              I also shove Hand 2. Both players only have ~10k chips so there's no other move. It's AntManB again with the 3bet. You're only behind to 2 hands, and you can't really put either of them on AA/KK without a solid read, which you don't have.

              Ship it and either pick up the 5k in the middle uncontested, or else pray he turns over a smaller pockeet pair or a big ace.

              Comment


                #8
                Hand 1 = fold. LP has raised, BTN has shipped. It's a third of your stack with only Ace high. You're behind IMO. If not you're hoping you're against AQ/AJ or racing.

                (I'm gonna bricked for that BTW)



                Hand 2 = Shove. But you know that already and you know you're gonna be behind.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by newbie2 View Post
                  Hand 1 = fold. LP has raised, BTN has shipped. It's a third of your stack with only Ace high. You're behind IMO. If not you're hoping you're against AQ/AJ or racing.

                  (I'm gonna bricked for that BTW)
                  The amount of times i've shipped from the button with a bag of bollocks against a LP/CO raise is proabably higher than any other 3bet scenario i find myself in.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    hand 1:

                    I made the fold with the thinking we are still pretty deep . no one has really got out of line since ive been at table. CO has widish range and not calling my shove. Im putting the button shove on TT/JJ . he still has 15 odd BBs with a slow structure, and its quiet possible the CO has one of my outs and didnt feel the need to risk quarter of stack with the AK. CO had K10 and called the shove his opp had same hand as myself AKo

                    hand 2
                    I went for the 4 bet to 4700 with the thinking if im behind i will quickly find out and still have 10k + left when i fold. I dont think I would ever shove here . As i said above everybody playing snug enough nothing really out of the ordinary. We are still deep and i dont wanna 4 bet shove with just QQ so early. Anyway I got an insta shove from OR and a snap call from other. I fold . Im left with 10k . OR has KK and other guy has AA.
                    Last edited by Tony3004; 01-08-10, 00:24.
                    You got to have a lot of balls, to play golf the way I do!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                      The amount of times i've shipped from the button with a bag of bollocks against a LP/CO raise is proabably higher than any other 3bet scenario i find myself in.
                      Were you playing this hand?




                      -my point being, that not everybody plays the way you do. And by you I mean the "player". jUST BECAUSE YOU DO IT - AND IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO - DOESN'T MEAN EVERYBODY DOES IT..

                      Bollox Caps lock was on and i didnt realise - i'm not changing it now. gheyness
                      Last edited by newbie2; 01-08-10, 00:31.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Tony3004 View Post
                        hand 1:

                        didnt feel the need to risk quarter of stack with the AK.
                        this is poker, you have to 'risk' your stack, AK is there for risking it and only having to risk about 1/4 of your stack with AK is about as good a spot as there is in poker. you have to call here absent a very very specific read on the other players involved

                        Originally posted by Tony3004 View Post
                        hand 2
                        I went for the 4 bet to 4700 with the thinking if im behind i will quickly find out and still have 10k + left when i fold. I dont think I would ever shove here . As i said above everybody playing snug enough nothing really out of the ordinary. We are still deep and i dont wanna 4 bet shove with just QQ so early. Anyway I got an insta shove from OR and a snap call from other. I fold . Im left with 10k . OR has KK and other guy has AA.
                        I understand your reasoning here but you cannot let the fact that they turned up with AA and KK here influence how you approach this spot in the future. against random MTT players, even random competent ones it will be rare for either of them to turn up with AA or KK here. if you approach this situation 100 times QQ will be a massive winner here.

                        the merits of the push or simple reraise are debateable. you may well be OOP in a three way flop with the simple reraise, though with a hand like QQ that's not so much of a problem. as played I think it is a fold when it comes back round to you because of the strength shown by both players.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Tony3004 View Post
                          hand 2
                          I went for the 4 bet to 4700 with the thinking if im behind i will quickly find out and still have 10k + left when i fold. I dont think I would ever shove here . As i said above everybody playing snug enough nothing really out of the ordinary. We are still deep and i dont wanna 4 bet shove with just QQ so early. Anyway I got an insta shove from OR and a snap call from other. I fold . Im left with 10k . OR has KK and other guy has AA.
                          Tony, a 4bet for information knowing you are going to fold if you get shipped on is really awful. It's hard to stress how bad it is tbh. The fact stack sizes are shallow and you put in half of their remaing stacks, means you're almost priced in anyway, and even if they turned their hands face up and showed you AA and KK, you still have to call. This doesn't included the times they show up with 1010-JJ, AK and the other QQ

                          Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

                          1,370,754 games 0.003 secs 456,918,000 games/sec

                          Board:
                          Dead:

                          equity win tie pots won pots tied
                          Hand 0: 66.871% 66.74% 00.13% 914818 1816.33 { AcAd }
                          Hand 1: 17.438% 17.31% 00.13% 237214 1816.33 { KdKh }
                          Hand 2: 15.691% 15.56% 00.13% 213273 1816.33 { QhQs }

                          You need 16% equity against exactly AA/KK so by working it out roughlt , it's costing you about 5300 to win over 31k, so that's 17% (5300 / (5300+26000)?)

                          If your intention is to fold, then just call the 2750 pre, and the OR will still ship, followed by the 3bettor and then you get the same info costing you 2k less.

                          The fact this is a satellite, and a lot of thse players have satellited in for £8.8 and are probably pretty bad would mean i'd be shipping pre with the QQ a lot of the time

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Tony3004 View Post
                            PokerStars Game #47533926120: Tournament #294069593, £75+£7 GBP Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2010/07/31 22:05:19 WET [2010/07/31 17:05:19 ET]
                            Table '294069593 5' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
                            Seat 1: superowl99 (15388 in chips)
                            Seat 2: AntManB (4164 in chips)
                            Seat 3: SeeYouAnte18 (17234 in chips)
                            Seat 4: Irishguy2 (17575 in chips)
                            Seat 5: Bari_86 (11032 in chips)
                            Seat 6: jaccobite (10757 in chips)
                            Seat 7: Tervaaja (5055 in chips)
                            Seat 8: u12jg (18211 in chips)
                            Seat 9: MartinSaar (4675 in chips)
                            superowl99: posts the ante 25
                            AntManB: posts the ante 25
                            SeeYouAnte18: posts the ante 25
                            Irishguy2: posts the ante 25
                            Bari_86: posts the ante 25
                            jaccobite: posts the ante 25
                            Tervaaja: posts the ante 25
                            u12jg: posts the ante 25
                            MartinSaar: posts the ante 25
                            SeeYouAnte18: posts small blind 125
                            Irishguy2: posts big blind 250
                            *** HOLE CARDS ***
                            Dealt to Irishguy2 [As Kc]
                            Bari_86: folds
                            jaccobite: folds
                            Tervaaja: folds
                            u12jg: folds
                            MartinSaar: folds
                            superowl99: raises 500 to 750
                            AntManB: raises 3389 to 4139 and is all-in
                            SeeYouAnte18: folds
                            Irishguy2: ?
                            superowl99: ?


                            40 left 10 seats


                            sorry bout the non conversion. an error kept coming up .

                            anyway whats the move here in the BB
                            Folding is ok really but the UTG raiser needs QQ+ to call your shove, even if he calls with 10's or JJ's your still in pretty good shape

                            Originally posted by Tony3004 View Post
                            PokerStars Game #47534271181: Tournament #294069593, £75+£7 GBP Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2010/07/31 22:13:21 WET [2010/07/31 17:13:21 ET]
                            Table '294069593 5' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
                            Seat 1: superowl99 (9199 in chips)
                            Seat 2: AntManB (10078 in chips)
                            Seat 3: SeeYouAnte18 (16484 in chips)
                            Seat 4: Irishguy2 (16700 in chips)
                            Seat 5: Bari_86 (11097 in chips)
                            Seat 6: jaccobite (10132 in chips)
                            Seat 7: Tervaaja (4655 in chips)
                            Seat 8: u12jg (21696 in chips)
                            Seat 9: MartinSaar (4050 in chips)
                            superowl99: posts the ante 25
                            AntManB: posts the ante 25
                            SeeYouAnte18: posts the ante 25
                            Irishguy2: posts the ante 25
                            Bari_86: posts the ante 25
                            jaccobite: posts the ante 25
                            Tervaaja: posts the ante 25
                            u12jg: posts the ante 25
                            MartinSaar: posts the ante 25
                            Irishguy2: posts small blind 125
                            Bari_86: posts big blind 250
                            *** HOLE CARDS ***
                            Dealt to Irishguy2 [Qh Qs]
                            jaccobite: raises 561 to 811
                            Tervaaja: folds
                            u12jg: calls 811
                            MartinSaar: folds
                            superowl99: folds
                            AntManB: raises 1939 to 2750
                            SeeYouAnte18: folds
                            Irishguy2: ???

                            what to do here ?

                            I have no stats . and no reads really only at the table about two orbits
                            think it a 4 bet or fold, i personal dont fold in this spot!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              its more likely u are ahead or in better shape in hand 1 than in hand 2 imo.
                              hand 1 i deffo shove, hand 2 i dont much and could play any number of ways.

                              Comment

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