Showing or mucking

[tipp86]

Lets say a player calls a bet on the river has he the option to see the other players hand if he wishes to muck them.

[eagle eye]

If two players go to showdown then you are entitled to see the other players cards but its considered bad etiquette to ask to see his cards if he wishes to muck his hand.

[tylerdurden94]

Yes you have the right to see them technically but its really bad form to request so.

[curleywurley]

^^ + his cards are live again.


It's enough to have caught the player bluffing, there's no need to intentionally embarrass or rub their nose in it.
As far as gathering important info goes, you don't need to see his exact hand to know how he just bluffed 3 streets or whatever it was that he did with a bluff. The exact hand is not that significant.

[bp_me]

Lets say a player calls a bet on the river has he the option to see the other players hand if he wishes to muck them.

Common tournament rules state that any player dealt into the hand and at the table when the deal was complete may ask to see any hand that has reached showdown provided said hand is clearly identifiable by the dealer.

If it is a player who has reached showdown that makes the request then the hand is considered live.

If the request comes from a player who mucked on an earlier street the cards are first touched off the muck to kill them before being exposed.

[Goodluck2me]

I actually think it's bad form to muck your cards, someone has called to win the pot and see your hand. The exact hand might not be relevant but the range is. If its AKs bluffing a strong draw v 23o from UTG it does make a difference.

[kincsem]

The player who called should see the hand of the player who bet. This "bad form" might hold up if a caller sees the betters hand then decides to muck his beaten hand.

What I do not like is when I call the better, he says "what have you got" (excuse me but I called you), then when I show and he sees my hand ( the nuts obviously), he folds his hand. I paid a lot of chips to see your hand. I paid to win, and also to see what you play.

[Goodluck2me]

The player who called should see the hand of the player who bet. This "bad form" might hold up if a caller sees the betters hand then decides to muck his beaten hand.

What I do not like is when I call the better, he says "what have you got" (excuse me but I called you), then when I show and he sees my hand ( the nuts obviously), he folds his hand. I paid a lot of chips to see your hand. I paid to win, and also to see what you play.

Totally agree with this, and you get accused of slow rolling if you don't say anything!

[Ace]

What I do not like is when I call the better, he says "what have you got" (excuse me but I called you), then when I show and he sees my hand ( the nuts obviously), he folds his hand. I paid a lot of chips to see your hand. I paid to win, and also to see what you play.

you flat call with the nuts on the river

[sligoboi]

you flat call with the nuts on the river

bad etiquette and gets a penalty..so much wrong in this instance

[Ace]

bad etiquette and gets a penalty..so much wrong in this instance

Why would you get a penalty, its not against the rules, and as for info a lot can be gained, a player who raises pf and bets 3 streets, could have Aks and flopped fd+sd and betting his huge draw or he could have 92o and he just betting it. Info is valuable in poker, unless the person was annoyin me i rarely ask to see their hand.

[sligoboi]

Why would you get a penalty, its not against the rules, and as for info a lot can be gained, a player who raises pf and bets 3 streets, could have Aks and flopped fd+sd and betting his huge draw or he could have 92o and he just betting it. Info is valuable in poker, unless the person was annoyin me i rarely ask to see their hand.

To avoid softplay there is a rule (don't know how well enforced it is) that states that you must raise on the river if you have the stone cold nuts and you have sufficient chips to do so.

[Ace]

To avoid softplay there is a rule (don't know how well enforced it is) that states that you must raise on the river if you have the stone cold nuts and you have sufficient chips to do so.

ugh my post was referring to the OP and just making a reply to kincsem,

[DonkeyPokerTour]

To avoid softplay there is a rule (don't know how well enforced it is) that states that you must raise on the river if you have the stone cold nuts and you have sufficient chips to do so.

Not strictly true, the rule is you must raise on the river if you have the nuts and you are last to act. I.e. If your first to act you are perfectly entitled to check it to try and induce a bet from any of the other players.

Also it must be the absolute nuts, i.e. you have AhKh on a 3h 5h 7h board. Not betting the river is not punishable here because technically you could be afraid of 4h6h, however unlikely.

[Lloyd Christmas]

Not strictly true, the rule is you must raise on the river if you have the nuts and you are last to act. I.e. If your first to act you are perfectly entitled to check it to try and induce a bet from any of the other players.

Also it must be the absolute nuts, i.e. you have AhKh on a 3h 5h 7h board. Not betting the river is not punishable here because technically you could be afraid of 4h6h, however unlikely.

Is that applicable in Europe, only ever seen it enforced at the WSOP, although saying that I probably have never encountered it myself in live play!

[tylerdurden94]

Is that applicable in Europe, only ever seen it enforced at the WSOP, although saying that I probably have never encountered it myself in live play!

I would assume that it would be a rule everywhere.

[gorrrr72]

I was playing a Brucepoker tour event a while back and a player flopped the nut straight, bets flop and turn and then checked behind on the river when the nuts didn't change. When she claimed the pot she was asked why she didn't bet the river and she just said I thought he had the same hand so what's the point

[TheTD]

Is that applicable in Europe, only ever seen it enforced at the WSOP, although saying that I probably have never encountered it myself in live play!

Yes a player must bet the nuts on the river if they are last to act and yes I will give a penalty, they deserve it if for no other reason than they are that stupid.

J

[TheTD]

Lets say a player calls a bet on the river has he the option to see the other players hand if he wishes to muck them.

Last man standing rule is what I use,

A player always has the right to muck there hand if you think that there is soft play the TD can check the hand.

If you are the last person with cards you automatically win the pot and don't have to show,

John

[Raheny Red]

Yes a player must bet the nuts on the river if they are last to act and yes I will give a penalty, they deserve it if for no other reason than they are that stupid.

J

What happens if the nuts is on the board: A A A A K, and the last player to act checks it?