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    Moral Dilemma or STFU

    This is in the rulings section so nothing juicy


    Tournament Spot.

    You see a flop 3 ways from the BB.

    You end up getting it in with an open-ender vs top pair for your tourney life.

    You hit running 2 pair.

    Everyone calls you a luckbox and dealer passes you the chips.

    As dealer scoops up the cards, YOU alone cop that your running 2 pair has made a straight for the other player with his raggy kicker.

    1) Do you say anything in the couple of seconds before cards are swiped.
    2) How long after cards are gone can opponent (or anyone) say anything to reverse decision?

    #2
    Originally posted by Dice75 View Post
    This is in the rulings section so nothing juicy

    Tournament Spot.

    You see a flop 3 ways from the BB.

    You end up getting it in with an open-ender vs top pair for your tourney life.

    You hit running 2 pair.

    Everyone calls you a luckbox and dealer passes you the chips.

    As dealer scoops up the cards, YOU alone cop that your running 2 pair has made a straight for the other player with his raggy kicker.

    1) Do you say anything in the couple of seconds before cards are swiped.
    2) How long after cards are gone can opponent (or anyone) say anything to reverse decision?
    I think once the chips are given to you and 'over the betting line' they are yours. If next hand starts def your chips.

    Would I say anything..... probably

    Comment


      #3
      If it's me I say something. Good karma and all that
      Redbet at the Dublin Poker Invasion FTW

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by The Aul Switcharoo View Post
        If it's me I say something. Good karma and all that
        No such thing as Karma internal fistpump and take down tourney.

        Buy homeless man a packet of crisps on the way home if you feel the universe needs correcting

        Comment


          #5
          Depends who the victim was. If it was MDoug I would be sure to point it out to him the instant the next hand was dealt and feel very good about it

          Comment


            #6
            Karma lol

            Comment


              #7
              If you don't point it out you are cheating.

              Comment


                #8
                Id say it unless was totally skint fuck morals then the cards speak.
                If player and dealer are to dumb to see winning hand player does not deserve the pot.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by SICKPUPPY View Post
                  If player and dealer are to dumb to see winning hand player does not deserve the pot.
                  This statement is lol.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Dice75 View Post
                    This is in the rulings section so nothing juicy

                    1) Do you say anything in the couple of seconds before cards are swiped.
                    2) How long after cards are gone can opponent (or anyone) say anything to reverse decision?
                    1) as a player, id stay very quiet and feign ignorance.
                    2) as soon as the cards are shuffled (first riffle) the next hand has begun and the floor 'cant' make a ruling. but if i were you id keep very quite until much, much later.

                    It is actually the player with the raggy straight responsibility to look after his hand, and notice that he hit.
                    Dealers, floorstaff etc are only there to assist in reading hands, of course if they see something they have a duty to point it out and correct the error.
                    As a player, well, its up to you. How do you like to sleep at night? on a cloud of good feelings or a pile of money ;-)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Dice75 View Post
                      This is in the rulings section so nothing juicy


                      Tournament Spot.

                      You see a flop 3 ways from the BB.

                      You end up getting it in with an open-ender vs top pair for your tourney life.

                      You hit running 2 pair.

                      Everyone calls you a luckbox and dealer passes you the chips.

                      As dealer scoops up the cards, YOU alone cop that your running 2 pair has made a straight for the other player with his raggy kicker.

                      1) Do you say anything in the couple of seconds before cards are swiped.
                      2) How long after cards are gone can opponent (or anyone) say anything to reverse decision?
                      First rifle of the cards on next hand after that there shouldn't be any recourse.
                      "you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by tylerdurden94 View Post
                        First rifle of the cards on next hand after that there shouldn't be any recourse.
                        Is this actually correct on a hand that goes to showdown on the flop? It certainly shouldn't be and if any TD tried to apply a ruling like that without recourse to having some level of leeway for justice their tournaments should be shunned by all fair thinking people.
                        PS this is actually the dealers job to notice this not the player with the straight as the dealer is the one who awards pots not the player.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I once seen a well known player turn all 5 cards over on the board and put them in the muck(as quick as he could) for the dealer so nobody noticed he had the losing hand. The dealer had a go at him and he just sat there looking sheepish while everyone else were saying "wtf". The guy is not short for a few quid and would go that low to win a hand. Can't buy class.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by CHD View Post
                            If you don't point it out you are cheating.
                            Is it actually cheating though? I imagine in whatever rules it is never up to the player to award the pot. Morally cheating maybe/against the rules of the game I don't think so

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Poker TDA rules:
                              "51: No Disclosure
                              Players are obligated to protect other players in the tournament at all times. Therefore, players, whether in the hand or not, may not Disclose contents of live or folded hands."

                              In this case you must protect yourself and STFU.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Definitely cheating, or at the very least ethically poor form to not say something. Basically the same thing as if you see someone drop money out of their wallet and you pick it up and keep it rather than telling them.
                                I also think if someone realizes you noticed something amiss and you kept schtum then it reflects badly on your reputation.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by IPB Champ View Post
                                  I once seen a well known player turn all 5 cards over on the board and put them in the muck(as quick as he could) for the dealer so nobody noticed he had the losing hand. The dealer had a go at him and he just sat there looking sheepish while everyone else were saying "wtf". The guy is not short for a few quid and would go that low to win a hand. Can't buy class.
                                  Defo Dice

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    What people say on here they would do, and what they actually do, are 2 completely different things.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by iSnow View Post
                                      Poker TDA rules:
                                      "51: No Disclosure
                                      Players are obligated to protect other players in the tournament at all times. Therefore, players, whether in the hand or not, may not Disclose contents of live or folded hands."

                                      In this case you must protect yourself and STFU.
                                      but the hand wasnt folded
                                      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mayo-...0391231?ref=hl

                                      Mayo's longest running and most successful pub poker league. Teach O'Hora, Kiltimagh every Wednesday night, entry €20. Re-entry €20.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        I think it would be(even though it shouldn't be) situation depending, I have said before when I've lost and others didn't notice in local games, but if it happened late on in a bigger tourney or big cash pot, I don't know how I'd react, I'd like to think I'd do the right thing though!!

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by IPB Champ View Post
                                          I once seen a well known player turn all 5 cards over on the board and put them in the muck(as quick as he could) for the dealer so nobody noticed he had the losing hand. The dealer had a go at him and he just sat there looking sheepish while everyone else were saying "wtf". The guy is not short for a few quid and would go that low to win a hand. Can't buy class.
                                          Originally posted by ghostface View Post
                                          Defo Dice
                                          Fail.

                                          I do know who it was though.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            More info on the opponent required. Is he a reasonable sound reg or the large earphone, ipad user at a small game type.

                                            Is he constantly slowing up the game and hollywooding or does he know when it is his turn to act and what other players have been up to.

                                            Basically if he is a bit of a mouthy tool or the type who is paying no attention and slowing the game to a crawl then fuck him. I am sure you can find a reason as to why he didn't deserve it. Personally I would love to say I would have given it to him but in the spot but prob would have kept my mouth shut. I would simply look for a reason to justify my actions afterwards.

                                            Terrible by the dealer tho and surprised that someone else didn't say anything. Guys who saw it must have felt you would be easier to get the chips off I guess.
                                            Last edited by RichieM; 14-12-12, 14:38.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Howard Finkel View Post
                                              Depends who the victim was. If it was MDoug I would be sure to point it out to him the instant the next hand was dealt and feel very good about it
                                              fuck you lawlor!
                                              I've actually had scenarios like this happen and everytime I've said it instantly, once I even was given 10k chips instead of 1k and called over tourney director about the mistake and noone else had noticed.

                                              also #1 as if you'd notice anything before me and #2 I'd already have knocked you out muppet
                                              Go big or go homeless.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                you know what to do....

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                                  No such thing as Karma internal fistpump and take down tourney.

                                                  Buy homeless man a packet of crisps on the way home if you feel the universe needs correcting
                                                  Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                                                  What people say on here they would do, and what they actually do, are 2 completely different things.
                                                  I agree, there's no way BK would buy a homeless man a packet of crisps.

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by RichieM View Post
                                                    More info on the opponent required.
                                                    Originally posted by IPB Champ View Post
                                                    I once seen a well known player turn all 5 cards over on the board and put them in the muck(as quick as he could) for the dealer so nobody noticed he had the losing hand. The dealer had a go at him and he just sat there looking sheepish while everyone else were saying "wtf". The guy is not short for a few quid and would go that low to win a hand. Can't buy class.
                                                    .

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      I think the character of the victim and even calibre of tournament is irrelevant. Lets face it if one of us satty into a big tournament, lets say Irish Open for instance, and I get this decision in my favour I am keeping my mouth firmly shut so I guess I should be doing the same in a small tourney/cash game.

                                                      As mentioned I would be of the opinion it's the dealers job.
                                                      Last edited by Carl_Morrissey; 14-12-12, 15:14.
                                                      http://carlmorrissey.blogspot.com/
                                                      http://twitter.com/#!/Moro88

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        Do the right thing.

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          I'd like to think I'd do the right thing and say something...but...there's at least 5 guys on my shit list I'd keep my mouth shut about it for.

                                                          Comment


                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by iSnow View Post
                                                            Poker TDA rules:
                                                            "51: No Disclosure
                                                            Players are obligated to protect other players in the tournament at all times. Therefore, players, whether in the hand or not, may not Disclose contents of live or folded hands."

                                                            In this case you must protect yourself and STFU.
                                                            Never said it was folded..

                                                            Comment


                                                              #31
                                                              I'd say something, regardless of who it is. Some dealers though do the whole thing too fast at times as if they aren't paying attention and just want to get out of there which can make if difficult occasionally.

                                                              Comment


                                                                #32
                                                                Id like to think I'd do the right thing. Couldn't be sure unless I was in the situation
                                                                airport, lol

                                                                Comment


                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by kincsem View Post
                                                                  Do the right thing.
                                                                  Right thing for you or the game? Grey area

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    #34
                                                                    Same situation in a cash game except you're not in the hand...its a mate of yours that is getting the chips pushed over to him and you realise one of the other hands is actually winning?

                                                                    What do you do?
                                                                    twitter
                                                                    moneybookers

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by BallymoreChris View Post
                                                                      Same situation in a cash game except you're not in the hand...its a mate of yours that is getting the chips pushed over to him and you realise one of the other hands is actually winning?

                                                                      What do you do?
                                                                      here I wouldn't say a word
                                                                      Go big or go homeless.

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                                                                        Is this actually correct on a hand that goes to showdown on the flop? It certainly shouldn't be and if any TD tried to apply a ruling like that without recourse to having some level of leeway for justice their tournaments should be shunned by all fair thinking people.
                                                                        it is:
                                                                        5. A ruling may be made regarding a pot if it has been requested before the next deal starts (or before the game either
                                                                        ends or changes to another table). Otherwise, the result of a deal must stand. The first riffle of the shuffle marks the
                                                                        start for a deal.
                                                                        6. If a pot has been incorrectly awarded and mingled with chips that were not in the pot, but the time limit for a ruling request given in the previous rule has been complied with, management may determine how much was in the pot by
                                                                        reconstructing the betting, and then transfer that amount to the proper player.

                                                                        This means that a floor person can only make a decision before the start of the next hand, it defines the beginning of the next hand as the first riffle. So regardless of what happens if no-one calls for the floor before the next hand any floor person worth their salt will simply say there is nothing they can do about it.

                                                                        Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                                                                        PS this is actually the dealers job to notice this not the player with the straight as the dealer is the one who awards pots not the player.
                                                                        It isn't.
                                                                        its the dealers job to maintain the flow of the game and award the pot they may assist with reading players cards, ultimately it is the players responsibility to know what they have and alert the dealer.
                                                                        2. Cards speak (cards read for themselves). The dealer assists in reading hands, but players are responsible for holding
                                                                        onto their cards until the winner is declared. Although verbal declarations as to the contents of a hand are not binding,
                                                                        deliberately miscalling a hand with the intent of causing another player to discard a winning hand is unethical and may
                                                                        result in forfeiture of the pot. (For more information on miscalling a hand see “Section 11 - Lowball,” Rule 15 and Rule
                                                                        16.)

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by cardshark202 View Post
                                                                          Definitely cheating, or at the very least ethically poor form to not say something.
                                                                          This. Don't think it's even debatable.

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                                                                            Is this actually correct on a hand that goes to showdown on the flop? It certainly shouldn't be and if any TD tried to apply a ruling like that without recourse to having some level of leeway for justice their tournaments should be shunned by all fair thinking people.
                                                                            PS this is actually the dealers job to notice this not the player with the straight as the dealer is the one who awards pots not the player.
                                                                            Wouldn't be certain that's how it goes, pretty sure I've seen stuff like this before not 1st hand but read about rulings like that.

                                                                            Originally posted by iSnow View Post
                                                                            Poker TDA rules:
                                                                            "51: No Disclosure
                                                                            Players are obligated to protect other players in the tournament at all times. Therefore, players, whether in the hand or not, may not Disclose contents of live or folded hands."

                                                                            In this case you must protect yourself and STFU.
                                                                            You are quoting the wrong rule here as it's expanded upon and you neglected to leave out "2. Advise or criticize play at any time, 3. Read a hand that hasn’t been tabled. The one-player-to-a-hand rule will be enforced." which basically means shut the hell up when a hand is in progress.

                                                                            Players are encourages to help dealers in reading tabled hands and would fall under point 15 from Official TDA Rules,

                                                                            15: Killing Winning Hand
                                                                            Dealers cannot kill a winning hand that was tabled and was obviously the winning hand. Players are encouraged to assist in reading tabled hands if it appears that an error is about to be made.
                                                                            "you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              #39
                                                                              Originally posted by BallymoreChris View Post
                                                                              Same situation in a cash game except you're not in the hand...its a mate of yours that is getting the chips pushed over to him and you realise one of the other hands is actually winning?

                                                                              What do you do?
                                                                              Quickly text him and ask for 50%?

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                #40
                                                                                I think I would say something about 90% of the time. I wouldn't look too harshly on someone who chose to say nothing.

                                                                                If noticed then I would like to think the TD could rectify the mistake. I think it's unintelligible to be content that these mistakes can't be rectified after noticing. "The hands over" mentality is not conductive with a fair poker environment.

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  There needs to be some deadline. or floormen will have to make rulings on hands from ages past.
                                                                                  The standard decision made for the deadline is in place before any other factors would need to be considered.

                                                                                  If the deadline was not there we would need to consider the chips played in subsequent hands etc, you would need to recreate situations from the memories of 9/10 players and a dealer.
                                                                                  The line had to be drawn somewhere, and this was the best spot to draw it.

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Obviously say something, jesus

                                                                                    Originally posted by BallymoreChris View Post
                                                                                    Same situation in a cash game except you're not in the hand...its a mate of yours that is getting the chips pushed over to him and you realise one of the other hands is actually winning?

                                                                                    What do you do?
                                                                                    This is tougher cos it feels you're imposing your ethics on someone else. But still think it's clear enough ethically to point it out. I mean, if someone I knew did that in a pot I'd 'won' I'd probably be pissed at them afterwards but still understand they were right. So I'd do the same, expect to get abuse for it, but also expect them to come around in a couple of days

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      I remember more or less this situation happening to me in a cash game in the SE, I hit my set to my 99 on the turn and the river brought a Q hi straight through his JJ.
                                                                                      I wouldn't claim to have been acting honourably when the pot was pushed towards me and I looked puzzled and questioned the dealer before I realised that I was the only person at the table who had spotted the straight
                                                                                      Turning millions into thousands

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Originally posted by CHD View Post
                                                                                        If you don't point it out you are cheating.
                                                                                        No you aren't, there's nothing in the rules stating you have to point out mistakes to players or dealers.

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Originally posted by Van Dice View Post
                                                                                          Obviously say something, jesus



                                                                                          This is tougher cos it feels you're imposing your ethics on someone else. But still think it's clear enough ethically to point it out. I mean, if someone I knew did that in a pot I'd 'won' I'd probably be pissed at them afterwards but still understand they were right. So I'd do the same, expect to get abuse for it, but also expect them to come around in a couple of days

                                                                                          I hope i'm not your friend IRL.

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            Originally posted by japeye View Post
                                                                                            I hope i'm not your friend IRL.
                                                                                            Life is full of disappointments

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              I once got my liferoll (Think it might have been a K) over the line against one of The Jackpot regs. When the cards were turned over I was in dire shape and stormed out. I was told a few days later I had binked a straight or flush or something on the river(think it was runner runner) Needless to say no-one went running after me to inform me of my good luck!
                                                                                              (Details a bit vague as it was a few years ago and I had drink on board)

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                Personally, I would (and have in the past) say something. As stupid as it sounds, 'it's only money'.

                                                                                                I'd say I'd almost always say something, but I'm sure there is a situation where I may convince myself to just pretend I didn't see it. It's 100% unethical but I think it's a case of each to their own set of morals, it's not my job to be the ethical judge - and also I agree with Downtown, I wouldn't look too harshly on anyone that would say nothing.


                                                                                                Originally posted by BallymoreChris View Post
                                                                                                Same situation in a cash game except you're not in the hand...its a mate of yours that is getting the chips pushed over to him and you realise one of the other hands is actually winning?

                                                                                                What do you do?
                                                                                                This gets a lot tougher. Having had this conversation at the table many times, I think if the hand is face up on the table, something should be said if the dealer makes a mistake (it's the dealer's mistake btw, not any of the players). If you see the players hand, but he's about to muck, definitely do not say anything. However, if the hand is face up, the player has done what he's obliged to do, so the dealer should award him the pot if he has the winning hand (and if the dealer doesn't see it, yes you should point it out).

                                                                                                Adding one more dynamic to this, if it specifically a friend of yours, that makes it even that bit tougher. Being completely honest, I'd say most times I wouldn't say anything if it was a friend of mine. It was would depend on situation and nature of the game, but I could definitely see myself feigning ignorance in a case like this.


                                                                                                As for when is too late to rectify it, I believe the 'first riffle' rule would be the textbook ruling. In practice, I'm sure the TD could reverse the hand if it was caught early enough and there was zero issue about the actual hands (I made the argument before, that after the hand is over and cards are taken, there is nothing stopping the player with the chips saying the cards were different to what they were. This hypothetical scenario was in a pub game tho, so given no dealers (or cameras), I felt if the player wanted to be a dick and keep the chips, he could easily just say the player didn't actually have X)
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                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  Also, should probably say, a lot of the times with these situations where it doesn't involve me directly, it's often a case of how bothered I am and how much hassle it would be to point something out.

                                                                                                  An example that happened before, heads up pot in omaha, money goes in, gets to river. Guy exposes nut flush, guy to my left has a smaller flush (I can see all four of his cards from the flop when the money went in), but made runner runner house with his odd cards. He looks, says flush is good, very quickly exposes hand to table ('I had the smaller flush' type gesture) and then throws into muck. Being totally ethical, I could have said he actually hit runner runner house and won the pot. There would have been an awful lot of hassle with this though as they would have had to see if his cards could be identified, was showing his hand that quickly enough to justify him to the pot etc. so I just didn't bother saying anything.
                                                                                                  Poker Podcast Playlist

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                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
                                                                                                    No you aren't, there's nothing in the rules stating you have to point out mistakes to players or dealers.
                                                                                                    Dress it up anyway you like.

                                                                                                    It is cheating, angle shoot and pretty scummy.

                                                                                                    Rules also say cards speak. If the dealer who is meant to enforce these rules misses this and you notice then you are angle shooting.

                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                      #51
                                                                                                      Originally posted by Jam-Fly View Post
                                                                                                      Also, should probably say, a lot of the times with these situations where it doesn't involve me directly, it's often a case of how bothered I am and how much hassle it would be to point something out.

                                                                                                      An example that happened before, heads up pot in omaha, money goes in, gets to river. Guy exposes nut flush, guy to my left has a smaller flush (I can see all four of his cards from the flop when the money went in), but made runner runner house with his odd cards. He looks, says flush is good, very quickly exposes hand to table ('I had the smaller flush' type gesture) and then throws into muck. Being totally ethical, I could have said he actually hit runner runner house and won the pot. There would have been an awful lot of hassle with this though as they would have had to see if his cards could be identified, was showing his hand that quickly enough to justify him to the pot etc. so I just didn't bother saying anything.
                                                                                                      Did he table his cards or are you just looking into his hand.
                                                                                                      Its one player to a hand.
                                                                                                      I had this in the fitz a few weeks ago some auld wan tells me i win when i declare a pair of jacks.
                                                                                                      Hero beside her tells her she has 2 pair which she had now he if she cant see her hand or does not declare it or table cards on the table tough shit.
                                                                                                      Its something that annoys me people looking into others hands or gimps showing there hands should be killed immediately would stop the messing the hand not the player.

                                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                                        #52
                                                                                                        Originally posted by Jam-Fly View Post
                                                                                                        He looks, says flush is good, very quickly exposes hand to table ('I had the smaller flush' type gesture) and then throws into muck. Being totally ethical, I could have said he actually hit runner runner house and won the pot. There would have been an awful lot of hassle with this though as they would have had to see if his cards could be identified, was showing his hand that quickly enough to justify him to the pot etc. so I just didn't bother saying anything.
                                                                                                        Are you dealing in this situation? if so then ethically you need to wait til the hand is on the table before you can read it, if a player just flashes the cards without tabling them then it cannot be declared. they must be on the table for someone other than the table to 'read' them.

                                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                                          #53
                                                                                                          A question very very similar to this was posted on the TD Rules facebook page. Here is the situation and the replies:
                                                                                                          Rodolfo Zirio:
                                                                                                          "All in and call two players left on the main pot and show down. Player a shows Q6 players B shows T9
                                                                                                          Flop x x T
                                                                                                          Turn 9 ( nobody see two pair )
                                                                                                          River Q
                                                                                                          At this moment player is happy because thinks he is the winner and double up. Dealer pays player A. Nobody says anything. The dealer collects all the cards and shuffle and is ready to deal a new hand. At this moment someone says there was a 9 on the board and player B should be the winner. Player A ( great attitude ) confirm there was a 9 on the board, the Dealer don t remember the previous flop. Who wins the pot?"

                                                                                                          Replies:
                                                                                                          Richard Neilson:
                                                                                                          "In the spirit of the game and because of dealer error then player player B wins i think.... but, the hand is over and now its a new hand. Player B has no redress."
                                                                                                          Luca TDirector Palmieri:
                                                                                                          "no way B can win... poor dealer also. .. Seat open!"
                                                                                                          Jp Mc Cann:
                                                                                                          "Dealer can't kill a winning hand. If we 100% know 10,9 on the board player B wins"
                                                                                                          Gareth Edwards:
                                                                                                          "If there is nothing to dispute then what's the issue? If all players,
                                                                                                          including the one with 2 pair, aren't disagreeing then there is really no reason not to award the pot to the straight. While technically the hand shuffle marks the new hand and floorman should not make a rule, there really is nothing to be gained by following the letter of the rule. Assuming everything happened like it is written, i have no problems here."
                                                                                                          Gareth Edwards:
                                                                                                          "...and have the dealer practice recognising hand during his break, that'll learn him."
                                                                                                          Gareth Edwards:
                                                                                                          "(not sure what i meant by 2 pair and straight. But same issue. Im off to practice reading hands"
                                                                                                          Rodolfo Zirio:
                                                                                                          "I decided that player B is the winner of this pot and player A (player out) accepted my decision knowing he has NOT THE WINNING HAND."

                                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                                            #54
                                                                                                            Its a similar situation, but not the same. In this example the players are all in agreement. It is only the dealer who is in error. It i shows the good guy example in our morale dilemma.
                                                                                                            Floorman need to be capable enough to recognise when to stick to the letter of the law and when not to.
                                                                                                            Both situation can of course be avoided with competent dealers

                                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                                              #55
                                                                                                              Originally posted by DonkeyPokerTour View Post
                                                                                                              Luca TDirector Palmieri:
                                                                                                              "no way B can win... poor dealer also. .. Seat open!"
                                                                                                              Does he really call himself that? Lol, what an arsejockey.

                                                                                                              Originally posted by DonkeyPokerTour View Post
                                                                                                              Jp Mc Cann:
                                                                                                              "Dealer can't kill a winning hand. If we 100% know 10,9 on the board player B wins"
                                                                                                              Fair play to you JP.

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                                                                                                                #56
                                                                                                                Originally posted by SICKPUPPY View Post
                                                                                                                Did he table his cards or are you just looking into his hand.
                                                                                                                Its one player to a hand.
                                                                                                                I had this in the fitz a few weeks ago some auld wan tells me i win when i declare a pair of jacks.
                                                                                                                Hero beside her tells her she has 2 pair which she had now he if she cant see her hand or does not declare it or table cards on the table tough shit.
                                                                                                                Its something that annoys me people looking into others hands or gimps showing there hands should be killed immediately would stop the messing the hand not the player.
                                                                                                                Originally posted by thegreatiam View Post
                                                                                                                Are you dealing in this situation? if so then ethically you need to wait til the hand is on the table before you can read it, if a player just flashes the cards without tabling them then it cannot be declared. they must be on the table for someone other than the table to 'read' them.
                                                                                                                No, I'm a player in this situation. The guy very, very quickly flashed the hand to the table, and in the same motion fired it into the muck.

                                                                                                                If he doesn't show the table at all, he has no entitlement to the pot. If he just showed me say, I 100% should not say "but sure you have a house".
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                                                                                                                  #57
                                                                                                                  [QUOTE=DonkeyPokerTour;648436]
                                                                                                                  Jp Mc Cann:
                                                                                                                  "Dealer can't kill a winning hand. If we 100% know 10,9 on the board player B wins"
                                                                                                                  [/QUOTE]

                                                                                                                  the 100% sure is the only factor here. If player A wants to be a dick and there's no cameras and the dealer can't say for certain, I assume A has to keep chips?
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                                                                                                                    #58
                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Jam-Fly View Post
                                                                                                                    No, I'm a player in this situation. The guy very, very quickly flashed the hand to the table, and in the same motion fired it into the muck.

                                                                                                                    If he doesn't show the table at all, he has no entitlement to the pot. If he just showed me say, I 100% should not say "but sure you have a house".
                                                                                                                    Thats fine so just a bug bear of mine peeps showing cards as they fold or they have ak and it come 234 and they whinge fold.
                                                                                                                    I auto tell people i dont want to see there cards clubs are very lax on this crap but dealers jump out of there seat for a string bet.

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                                                                                                                      #59
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by SICKPUPPY View Post
                                                                                                                      Thats fine so just a bug bear of mine peeps showing cards as they fold or they have ak and it come 234 and they whinge fold.
                                                                                                                      I auto tell people i dont want to see there cards clubs are very lax on this crap but dealers jump out of there seat for a string bet.
                                                                                                                      or for checking your phone baffles me
                                                                                                                      airport, lol

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                                                                                                                        #60
                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Jam-Fly View Post
                                                                                                                        No, I'm a player in this situation. The guy very, very quickly flashed the hand to the table, and in the same motion fired it into the muck.

                                                                                                                        If he doesn't show the table at all, he has no entitlement to the pot. If he just showed me say, I 100% should not say "but sure you have a house".
                                                                                                                        flashing his cards and tabling them to be read are 2 very different things. players and dealers can only read them once they are tabled.
                                                                                                                        a dealer reading a hand that isnt tabled is in for a strict telling off. a player who reads an un-tabled hand needs a lesson in game etiquette.

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