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    Meh value question

    Just wondering what optimal play is here

    second level of live deepstack

    I have just arrived so have no history at table, think this is literally first hand played

    as such no reads on villain, he is in his 50s / 60s if this means anything

    we both have starting stack of 15k, blinds 50 / 100


    I'm dealt AcQc UTG and raise to 250

    folded to villain in LMP who reraises to 700

    folded back to me and I flat

    Flop (1400) 7c 8c 10c

    So i've flopped the effective nuts, I lead for 600 (comments?) hoping to induce a raise

    Villain obliges and repops to 1600 after a short dwell

    I dwell for around half a minute and raise to 4k. My thinking is villain has shown a lot of strength and may push over me. Usually I'd flat and hope to induce another bet but I really think villain has an overpair here and may do the loots. and there's no way I'm three betting him OOP with the flopped nuts am I? so its a good way of disguising my hand

    thoughts?

    in hindsight I mightn't have had enough regard to stack size, maybe villain knows I'm not fucking around putting this much of a decent stack in the middle...

    #2
    overpairs make up most of his range you'd presume if you have no idea how he plays so our objective is to obv bloat the pot

    If i lead here i bet more, maybe like 900-1100 to have a chance to bloat the pot on future streets if he flats and force him to make it more if he decides to raise which will obv make it harder for him to fold going foward

    your 4bet on the flop could look quite strong here and given your bet sizing he may not like to then ship over it,

    Comment


      #3
      I like the lead but would just flat the raise and lead again (2k-ish) on a non-club turn. He'll find it hard to resist coming over the top again with an overpair and you can jam it then.

      On a club turn it doesn't really matter what you do, prob check and lead river if he checks behind is best.

      Comment


        #4
        On phone so out of action but u have 2 c/r here 4 so many reasons

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
          On phone so out of action but u have 2 c/r here 4 so many reasons
          oh and this by the way, thats why i said if i lead because a c/r works better for all the reasons i said above and gives a good chance of a spaz shove out of him

          Originally posted by mcnugget View Post
          I like the lead but would just flat the raise and lead again (2k-ish) on a non-club turn. He'll find it hard to resist coming over the top again with an overpair and you can jam it then.

          On a club turn it doesn't really matter what you do, prob check and lead river if he checks behind is best.
          this would be a strange line and i dont know if you can bank on unknowns wanting to raise again on the turn in this spot

          Comment


            #6
            i think the hand dies with a cr

            i like Kenny's original suggestion of actually leading for more, will really fuck with his head and will increase the size of any three bet

            optimum is prob bet call as he will inevitably fire again on turn, then I could fire a big bet on river and make it look like I'm bluffing a missed draw (assuming no fourth club falls)

            Comment


              #7
              Your problem here is you lead small to induce a raise, but then 3bet flop cause you now assume the raise which you induced is only strong hands.
              That does not make sense

              Comment


                #8
                Ok 'induce' might be a bad word in so far as it implies I think he's bluffing. I led confident that he might come over the top.

                What I'm interested in is if I assume he has an overpair is it really bad to 3 bet there?

                Should I instead hedge my bets and flat, check turn, which keeps bluffs in his range and may keep him firing if he's playing the overpair cautiously?

                Comment


                  #9
                  I remember this hand, it was in the bruce tour game friday?? it must be since the bets are the same and the villains is described the same,

                  if it was i was on your table, cant picture you at all now. At the time i was thinking the lead looks weak but as soon as you made it 4k alarm bells went off, just check raise......and as played flat his 1600,

                  and also in your last post why do u assume he has an overpair? villain btw is very aggro, only played v him three times tops but usually one of the most aggressive on the table.
                  https://twitter.com/#!/PadraigONeill89

                  Comment


                    #10
                    As played I just flat the raise on the flop then c/r any non club turn.
                    http://carlmorrissey.blogspot.com/
                    http://twitter.com/#!/Moro88

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I'd call the 1600 on the flop. c/r the turn and lead the river.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by anymorejokes View Post
                        I remember this hand, it was in the bruce tour game friday?? it must be since the bets are the same and the villains is described the same,

                        if it was i was on your table, cant picture you at all now. At the time i was thinking the lead looks weak but as soon as you made it 4k alarm bells went off, just check raise......and as played flat his 1600,

                        and also in your last post why do u assume he has an overpair? villain btw is very aggro, only played v him three times tops but usually one of the most aggressive on the table.
                        yep, like I said at the time I thought villain was standard TAG older fella. small raise pre stank of wanting action and raise on flop was same.

                        but after seeing a few more hands later on it was obvious he was actually loose and gamey. from his insta fold here I'm pretty sure in hindsight that he had absolutely nowt.

                        anyway thanks you've more or less answered my q - my lead did achieve the effect of looking weak but the 4k looked too strong. maybe if he did have an overpair it would have worked, but i actually like Mary Horney's line now the most, which gets paid more often with overpairs and keeps bluffs in his range

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Leading is fine. i don't like 600 though. As a rule, I hate betting less on flop than the PF amount i make it 800. Given how you want the lead to appear (weakish, trying to get to the turn cheap etc) 3 betting to 4k is madness.
                          I flat the raise always, then I check raise turn, sizing really depends on him, I might even CRAI

                          Comment

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