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    Final Table Deals

    I was playing a $5 mtt on PS recently. At the final table the prizemoney ranged from $60 to $700 approx. Someone asked to do a deal when we were down to 8?!?! I laughed it off and played on and thankfully got HU and did a deal then.

    It got me thinking. Im playing the Big $11 now, ITM with about 700 left. Final table prizemoney ranges from $600 - $12k.

    Lets say for example the final table were all equal stack sizes and all 9 agreed to do a deal, thats approx $4500k each.

    Got me thinking whats the highest number of players that you have seen doing a deal at final table and is there any restrictions on how many can actually make a deal?

    #2
    Petty sure there was a 28-30 player chop in one of the fitz cash leagues last year which was ludicrous imo.

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      #3
      Remember a poker room opening above the Star Bingo a few years ago with a €120 F/O (10k gtd) on opening night.

      About 40 turned up and we hit the FT early enough, all outside for a smoke and someone suggests €1k each so we all just take it without even checking chip stacks and head off ( I knew I was 2nd shortest )

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by mickste View Post
        Petty sure there was a 28-30 player chop in one of the fitz cash leagues last year which was ludicrous imo.
        The only difference there is that it's essentially free money. Didn't Luke's old place (sides or something) regularly have 8-10 player chops at the final table?

        Comment


          #5
          Have done a deal in a cash league final with like 10 players left, each player agreed to take what they had in front of them, i had like 400 ish so was ok with that, one person had 60, would never deal with that little, gamble it up imo!!!

          Comment


            #6
            I remember one time I accidentally turned up for the Jackpot cash league final an hour late.. Played for 2 hours, barely playing a hand and someone mentioned a deal.. Was out of the place by 10 o'clock with €1.2k in my pocket for a decent Staurday night on the piss! Think it was a 14 way chop or something.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
              The only difference there is that it's essentially free money. Didn't Luke's old place (sides or something) regularly have 8-10 player chops at the final table?
              I was shamefully involved in this on the FT in Silks one night. Think we 'agreed' to all take 300 and play on. Then ended up chopping the rest of the money 3 handed with 2 other IPBrs me thinks

              Comment


                #8
                I wouldn't be a massive fan of chops but definitely there is a lot of merit to flattening payouts (im sure Flushdraw will have an opinion on), as they are so often so badly structured simply because of how shallow play often becomes on FTs!

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by brady23 View Post
                  I wouldn't be a massive fan of chops but definitely there is a lot of merit to flattening payouts (im sure Flushdraw will have an opinion on), as they are so often so badly structured simply because of how shallow play often becomes on FTs!
                  100% agree with this. I'm not a huge fan of chops unless i'm chip leader and can guarantee myself a decent chunk without the risk, but i'm all for flattening payouts and playing on, especially if it's a big game with a title or some prestige at stake

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                    #10
                    in the Jackpot league final one year, we were stuck on 10 players for ages. A few regs were pushing to take a few 1000 off the top so that 5th to 10th all got 5th place money (1k) to speed things up.
                    Not really a 10 way chop but a deal we all had to agree to.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Playing a game in the MGM. 80$ rebuy.

                      4 left I have 8 bigs. CL has about 40 and he asks for a chop where everyone gets 800$ and we filp for 240. I lost the flip as did CL.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by MegaSin View Post
                        Playing a game in the MGM. 80$ rebuy.

                        4 left I have 8 bigs. CL has about 40 and he asks for a chop where everyone gets 800$ and we filp for 240. I lost the flip as did CL.
                        If I was CL there Im not splitting for 800 each in a month of Sundays.

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                          #13
                          Down to last 52 out of 8000+ here....I might chance my arm if i make FT and ask for 9 way split lol

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                            #14
                            In the Fitz EOM earlier this year approaching the money people suggested a deal when we got to the break. We agreed but one player was missing so we couldn't finalise it.

                            Jimmy Wan came back in and someone said "Jimmy we want to do a deal and we suggest ..."
                            Jimmy "Ok".

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                              #15
                              I LOVE the classic "I'll take the first.place prize and you guys split the rest". Whether it works.or not I do love saying it when chip leader, used to work a lot more years ago but its just unreal explaining to them they all get the money for like 3/4th and we are all happy.
                              The good old days
                              Go big or go homeless.

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                                #16
                                I was playing a student game in galway last year, first was around 350 and a student masters ticket. I had a CL but not by much and I was clearly the better player. Second in chips offers my first place and they would split 2nd and 3rd, i obviously didn't want to seem to eager so I said ya sure. The shorty disagreed so we played on. About 4 hands later I doubled the shorty up to about the same as 2nd leaving me just a few bb's ahead, second once again offers the same deal and this time he takes it!

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                                  #17
                                  Whatever about doing deals, I wish they would implement the method JP has of seeing if players want to deal or pay the bubble. Simple red/black card anonymous vote which must be unanimous.
                                  Nothing worse than having to weigh up the positives of refusing a deal against the potential backlash from disgruntled punters. Was in a fairly decent buy in game in Vegas and talk of paying the bubble came up and not only took ages but caused some rows which had an impact on the game itself. I mentioned to the TD how JP does it and he says something along the lines of "this is America, a democracy, not a communist state like Ireland".

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                                    #18
                                    Last deal I did, I got 100% of first place money 4-handed. I did agree to tip the dealers for everyone though, generous soul that I am.
                                    "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

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                                      #19
                                      Id love to have a zero tolerance policy on deal making, Im sure if you knew explicitly that this was how you roll so to speak, it could only be a profitable mindset.

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                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Downtown View Post
                                        Whatever about doing deals, I wish they would implement the method JP has of seeing if players want to deal or pay the bubble. Simple red/black card anonymous vote which must be unanimous.
                                        Nothing worse than having to weigh up the positives of refusing a deal against the potential backlash from disgruntled punters. Was in a fairly decent buy in game in Vegas and talk of paying the bubble came up and not only took ages but caused some rows which had an impact on the game itself. I mentioned to the TD how JP does it and he says something along the lines of "this is America, a democracy, not a communist state like Ireland".
                                        It's a great system until someone starts bitching about who they think said no.

                                        also, it's a horrible slowroll when everyone says they'll agree, and when the vote comes someone says no.
                                        Is that how you crash a wedding? yes it is, Bionic Barry, yes it is.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          They used that red and black card system at an IWF side event I played the other week. There was two tables left and we got one objection.. As the TD went off to restart the clock he was frantically called back by a guy who explained that the fella beside him had misunderstood the rules and accidentally objected to the deal. So we had to do the whole thing over again and this time someone else objected. Was pretty funny at the time.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by Downtown View Post
                                            Whatever about doing deals, I wish they would implement the method JP has of seeing if players want to deal or pay the bubble. Simple red/black card anonymous vote which must be unanimous.
                                            Nothing worse than having to weigh up the positives of refusing a deal against the potential backlash from disgruntled punters. Was in a fairly decent buy in game in Vegas and talk of paying the bubble came up and not only took ages but caused some rows which had an impact on the game itself. I mentioned to the TD how JP does it and he says something along the lines of "this is America, a democracy, not a communist state like Ireland".
                                            Originally posted by Zod View Post
                                            It's a great system until someone starts bitching about who they think said no.

                                            also, it's a horrible slowroll when everyone says they'll agree, and when the vote comes someone says no.
                                            JP didn't do this for the Main Event did he? I heard from a couple of people that 1 particular person refused to pay the bubble when it was suggested €40 off every place?

                                            Also in the Side Event, when we got to the bubble the red card black card thing came off. Everyone at our table said they were happy with a deal so there was meant to be 6 red cards given back but there was 5 red and 1 black. Discussion then carried on that it must have been a mistake because we all said 'deal' and people being asked who was it. It was decided it was an error and the bubble was paid with 1 person probably not wanting to own up and say they didn't want to deal (Not me btw)

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                                              JP didn't do this for the Main Event did he? I heard from a couple of people that 1 particular person refused to pay the bubble when it was suggested €40 off every place?

                                              Also in the Side Event, when we got to the bubble the red card black card thing came off. Everyone at our table said they were happy with a deal so there was meant to be 6 red cards given back but there was 5 red and 1 black. Discussion then carried on that it must have been a mistake because we all said 'deal' and people being asked who was it. It was decided it was an error and the bubble was paid with 1 person probably not wanting to own up and say they didn't want to deal (Not me btw)
                                              No he didnt as 1 person openly objected to the deal for their own reasons. Said person then recieved abuse for several minutes having to explain to everyone why he didnt want to burst the bubble. He did state afterwards that he would do it anonymously the next time due to the hassle.

                                              That is a ridiculous ruling in the IWF. people agree verbally knowing thier is a hiden vote, yet their objectiion is not noted when it comes out. If someone makes a mistake using this system, i dont think it should be redone as it negates the functionality of it.

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                                                #24
                                                Also I claim responsibility for JP bringing in the red/black card system after getting dogs abuse one evening over refusing a deal. It's been in place since the week after that happened (no credit must go to JP on this initiative )

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  I don't think there is a single thing about live poker I hate more than people getting all nervous around bubble time and asking to take money off 1st/2nd to pay a few extra players....that is basically asking the big stacks to give away free money to strangers, let alone the change in the whole game dynamic.

                                                  I play very little live games and got berated a few times in the past for refusing to pay the bubble or refusing deals . Obviously if the money at stake are high then I think it is ok to consider making deals (based on stack sizes, not even split obv), but in regular small-field games I don't see the point, considering that often the top prize is only like 10-20 buy ins anyway? Also playing the FT is the most fun part of the game, why would anyway start a 50 players tourney (as an example) and stop 9 left when the real fun start?
                                                  "Poker isn’t about default strategies, it’s about exploiting your opponent's bad tendencies"

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by Downtown View Post
                                                    Whatever about doing deals, I wish they would implement the method JP has of seeing if players want to deal or pay the bubble. Simple red/black card anonymous vote which must be unanimous.
                                                    Nothing worse than having to weigh up the positives of refusing a deal against the potential backlash from disgruntled punters. Was in a fairly decent buy in game in Vegas and talk of paying the bubble came up and not only took ages but caused some rows which had an impact on the game itself. I mentioned to the TD how JP does it and he says something along the lines of "this is America, a democracy, not a communist state like Ireland".
                                                    I think this is the best way to do it. Celtic also do it, or at least did it the last Sat I played with them. I don't think anyone should feel bullied or pressured into doing a deal they don't want just because everyone else does. It happens a lot in small local clubs where the "regs" nearly have a deal made before you can even say anything and then you feel real bad if you object to it, especially when they say "We always do a deal"..

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      are deals ever done to increase 1st place

                                                      eg pre-deal the split is something like... 500, 350, 150

                                                      changing to 600, 200, 200 so that everyone is guaranteed 200 but 1st place is worth playing for ?

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by DaKlowen View Post
                                                        are deals ever done to increase 1st place

                                                        eg pre-deal the split is something like... 500, 350, 150

                                                        changing to 600, 200, 200 so that everyone is guaranteed 200 but 1st place is worth playing for ?
                                                        Happened in the Sunday million a few weeks ago some guy got like 198k in the deal then played on and got the 20k left to the winner, 1st place was 215k and he got 218k! Just to say my figures might not be 100% accurate but something along those lines

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                                                          #29
                                                          Deal suggested to pay the bubble at a game recently and a guy I know doesn't even look at the black/red cards, just randomly selects one facedown.
                                                          I asked him why, as he was the shortest stack and fairly certain to be the bubble with a couple of blinds left and he just said it was all part of the varience

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                                                            #30
                                                            Deals are for girls

                                                            Comment


                                                              #31
                                                              Chopped once in Vegas. Two of us left, pretty much equal chips, if anything I was ahead.

                                                              Got 1500$ each which was nice.

                                                              Had to get out having been playing for 6 hours and wife waiting to go shopping!

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                                                                #32
                                                                The last time I played in the Jackpot a deal was brought up to pay the bubble because 'they always do'. I politely refused several times and even explained that I didnt like taking the pressure off the shortstacks. I was given a torrent of abuse, long after the deal was taken off the table. I eventually did deal HU, whereby i took more money & he took the win Anyway... put me off that place & haven't been back since, it was uncomfortable & regs really shouldn't be allowed to try bully players, tradition or not.

                                                                Comment


                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by Niall O'Connor View Post
                                                                  The last time I played in the Jackpot a deal was brought up to pay the bubble because 'they always do'. I politely refused several times and even explained that I didnt like taking the pressure off the shortstacks. I was given a torrent of abuse, long after the deal was taken off the table. I eventually did deal HU, whereby i took more money & he took the win Anyway... put me off that place & haven't been back since, it was uncomfortable & regs really shouldn't be allowed to try bully players, tradition or not.
                                                                  Jackpot down to a tee, have had the exact same experience refusing a deal to pay the last 7 players in a 30 player tourny. It's what happens there unfortunately

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by Dice75 View Post
                                                                    Remember a poker room opening above the Star Bingo a few years ago with a €120 F/O (10k gtd) on opening night.

                                                                    About 40 turned up and we hit the FT early enough, all outside for a smoke and someone suggests €1k each so we all just take it without even checking chip stacks and head off ( I knew I was 2nd shortest )
                                                                    Did you suggest the chop
                                                                    €10,000 GTD New Monthly Tournament
                                                                    Village Green Card Club, Last Thursday of the Month, €270 Freezeout
                                                                    €1,000,000 GTD - Irish Open
                                                                    CityWest Hotel, 6th-13th April

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by JP Poker View Post
                                                                      Did you suggest the chop
                                                                      No, but any deal-making should be interesting this Saturday!

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        #36
                                                                        We did the red/black card at the ACOP €5k guarantee, side event last year..... Drunk lad beside me unwittingly flashes his card (so I KNOW he objects)....... Then spends the next 20 mins stating that he def did not object and that he thinks it was the foreign fella in seat 6!
                                                                        D15 CASINO, Mulhuddart Village (opp Blanchardstown shopping centre)

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by ghostface View Post
                                                                          Also I claim responsibility for JP bringing in the red/black card system after getting dogs abuse one evening over refusing a deal. It's been in place since the week after that happened (no credit must go to JP on this initiative )
                                                                          To be fair John Scanlan told me about this one.
                                                                          €10,000 GTD New Monthly Tournament
                                                                          Village Green Card Club, Last Thursday of the Month, €270 Freezeout
                                                                          €1,000,000 GTD - Irish Open
                                                                          CityWest Hotel, 6th-13th April

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by Niall O'Connor View Post
                                                                            The last time I played in the Jackpot a deal was brought up to pay the bubble because 'they always do'. I politely refused several times and even explained that I didnt like taking the pressure off the shortstacks. I was given a torrent of abuse, long after the deal was taken off the table. I eventually did deal HU, whereby i took more money & he took the win Anyway... put me off that place & haven't been back since, it was uncomfortable & regs really shouldn't be allowed to try bully players, tradition or not.
                                                                            Trish & Tracksuit Tommy can be tough
                                                                            D15 CASINO, Mulhuddart Village (opp Blanchardstown shopping centre)

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              #39
                                                                              Played in fitz eom a couple of weeks ago and I was shorty with 11 left 10 paid. Cat taylor was big chippy at my table with only 5 at it. She agreed to pay bubble which was wrong poker decision but a decent thing to do. All 11 agreed and I finished 10. No red black but it was suggested. I think it is horrible to put people in the situation and red black is the best way to do it.
                                                                              His rival it seems, had broken his dreams,By stealing the girl of his fancy.Her name was Magill, and she called herself Lil,But everyone knew her as Nancy.

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                #40
                                                                                Originally posted by Downtown View Post
                                                                                I mentioned to the TD how JP does it and he says something along the lines of "this is America, a democracy, not a communist state like Ireland".
                                                                                in Capitalist America democracy votes you.

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  the macau summer fest this year we were 8 handed for about 4 hrs and 6 were only getting paid so during the dinner break someone suggested we take couple hundred off 1st and 2nd for 7th and 8 th but one guy chippie at the time said no not enough money up top he said .
                                                                                  1st was getting 7400 and 2nd getting 4500 i started to laugh but said ok not a problem as i was after doing a deal with other player so did not mind .
                                                                                  on we went first he lost a huge hand with 2nd chippie then i went out in 8th and he followed in 7th for no cash . karma is a cunt when it bits back at ye is all i say

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