Hand vs tight reg

[Hectorjelly]

Here are my notes on him:

floats with AQ on TJx board, checks back A turn.
3bet and called 4bet with k9s
3bet 88 against utg raiser from sb
I check raise bluffed him, I was pfr on turn. He called I gave up

He's a good player, we play a lot together and we mostly stay out of each others way. No recent history. I think pre was probably a misclick initially, I've never seen him limp the sb into me before. The notes are somewhat misleading, in thousands of hands these are all the "mistakes" I've seen him make. No recent history.

25 50c. Everyone folds to him in sb

He limps. I make it 2 with black aces, he thinks and calls.

Flop is 3c Th 7c

He check calls 3

Turn is 8d and he donks 6, I call .

River Qc and he donks 14. I shove for 50. 36 for him to call.

[ikilldurrr1]

Seems pretty thin. I just call river. Or are you turning it into bluff with nut blocker? Seems weird and unnecessary if so.

[Arazi]

Agree with above, just call.
Your line really confuses me, what can he call us with or do we feel he can fold 2 pair hands??

[Hectorjelly]

I don't think I can profitably call, what do I beat? If calling was a realistic option I'd err on the side of low variance.

I'd be very very surprised to get called here by two pair

[colquhom]

I don't think I can profitably call, what do I beat? If calling was a realistic option I'd err on the side of low variance.

I'd be very very surprised to get called here by two pair

"3bet and called 4bet with k9s"
"3bet 88 against utg raiser from sb"

This stuff seems rather spewy, no? Would that info not make him more likely to spite call you if this is a "bluff".

[Hectorjelly]

"3bet and called 4bet with k9s"
"3bet 88 against utg raiser from sb"

This stuff seems rather spewy, no? Would that info not make him more likely to spite call you if this is a "bluff".

From the OP - "The notes are somewhat misleading, in thousands of hands these are all the "mistakes" I've seen him make."

I wouldn't call 3betting 88 against an utg raiser, spewy, just silly. I think those hands were isolated examples of badplay/tilt, not how he usually plays.

[ikilldurrr1]

How does he view you?
Is he capable of turning weak made hands into bluffs on river?
Does he valuebet thinly?
Any idea of his WWSF?

Knowing those things would make the river decision easier.

There are a few pair+straightdraw combos turned into bluffs we beat on the river but not many yeah. So hard to give him a range because of his unorthodox line.

[Hectorjelly]

How does he view you?
Is he capable of turning weak made hands into bluffs on river?
Does he valuebet thinly?
Any idea of his WWSF?

Knowing those things would make the river decision easier.

There are a few pair+straightdraw combos turned into bluffs we beat on the river but not many yeah. So hard to give him a range because of his unorthodox line.

How does he view you? - Pretty similarly to how I would view him I'd imagine.

Is he capable of turning weak made hands into bluffs on river? - I doubt it, although I have no evidence either way

Does he valuebet thinly? - I make a note if I see anyone either value bet thinly, or fail to value bet when they should. No note means I've never noticed him do anything out of the ordinary in this regard

Any idea of his WWSF? - I don't use a HUD or any tracking software (The sites decision, not mine)

Sorry, just rereading over it and I'm providing very little extra info! I should really know more about him, but he is tighter than I am, and I'm already pretty tight, there are always plenty of marks at the table so we virtually never clash.

[jazzyfish]

with your reads on him i prob pot the flop pot the turn ship the river as i would with lots of my range hear
lol sorry miss read didnt realize he donked lol half asleep hear

[Irish-kopite]

You are shoving as a bluff so.

Its such a weird line by him.As you said he is a good player and he prob thinks that he can limp into your bb to try a new dynamic.

Its such a weird spot.


Need more info on him.VPIP PFR limp %..How good is he.If he is ok but not a gerat player he may be limping small pairs and suited connectors but as if he is a very competent player then his range is huge and he is trying to out play you a lot of the time.

I think a fold is better for the time being untill we gain more info on him.Maybe raise the turn so he can fold bluffs or call with draws and just check back river.

[Hectorjelly]

You are shoving as a bluff so.

Its such a weird line by him.As you said he is a good player and he prob thinks that he can limp into your bb to try a new dynamic.

Its such a weird spot.


Need more info on him.VPIP PFR limp %..How good is he.If he is ok but not a gerat player he may be limping small pairs and suited connectors but as if he is a very competent player then his range is huge and he is trying to out play you a lot of the time.

I think a fold is better for the time being untill we gain more info on him.Maybe raise the turn so he can fold bluffs or call with draws and just check back river.

Ive played several thousand hands with him. How much more info do you want? As above, I don't have his exact VPIP or PFR limp %, not that they have much to do with this hand IMO

Raising the turn is bad, he won't call with anything worse, but can shove with combo draws and hands that beat me. If he was bad raising would be fine, but he isn't bad enough to let me just raise here to get a free showdown.

[AndyFatBastard]

Weird hand. I just flat the 14 on the river.

[Hectorjelly]

I don't think calling the 14 on the river is really a viable option

I thought he would give me a huge amount of credit if I shoved the river, if I were him I'd be pretty tempted to fold low flushes.

He folded, although obviously that doesn't really prove anything.

[AndyFatBastard]

I don't think calling the 14 on the river is really a viable option

Why?

[40something]

This hand, the lines and the commetary - all a level, right?

[Hectorjelly]

Why?

Have a look at the board. Once the flush gets there I don't beat anything. I beat no hand he would bet for value, and there is no reason to think that he is bluffing. The only draw that got there is 89, and it seems unlikely he would turn a pair of 9's into a bluff. His line is strange, but given the board texture I think a call is terrible.

[AndyFatBastard]

I don't see how there can't be lots of hands turned into bluffs and thin value bets in his range.

IME when a standard reg takes a really weird line then he's either got a monster or he's drunk/tilted. If you assume this then it polarises his range quite a bit more, leaving you with a comfortable bluff catch IMO.

[Hectorjelly]

I don't see how there can't be lots of hands turned into bluffs and thin value bets in his range.

IME when a standard reg takes a really weird line then he's either got a monster or he's drunk/tilted. If you assume this then it polarises his range quite a bit more, leaving you with a comfortable bluff catch IMO.

Thin value bets? Betting two pair here is thin. I lose to all the thin value bets.

I don't agree with your assumption, but assuming I did - he isn't drunk or tilted so he must have a monster.

Its hugely -EV to call bets on the river with a board like this against tight unimaginative TAGS with one pair.

I really don't think its a good idea to call just because we're curious as to what takes such a strange line.

This guy isn't a standard reg, he isn't very aggressive. I'm also aware we play in different games, so we may be arguing at cross purposes. In the games I play, once he donks the turn I should probably fold.

[Closed_Account]

The only thing I disagree with here is that he will EVER EVER EVER fold a low flush. That just seems ridiculous to me.

[Hectorjelly]

The only thing I disagree with here is that he will EVER EVER EVER fold a low flush. That just seems ridiculous to me.

Why?

You only beat a bluff.