Bookies wont pay when you win

[The Situation]

one by think 3 seconds and the other 6,

late is late and by your own rules are void but refused refunds by the shops & yourselves in head office


doesnt matter how late it it by your own rules they are void and if i had of won you would have perfectly legit grounds not to pay

This is pretty pathetic man, I mean 3 and 6 seconds is nothing. When I used to work in a bookies we had a ten second rule because it's possible to not get every bet on on time if everybody rushes up at the same time so I'm guessing this was similar.

If you said that it was late straight away, and asked for your money back- they would have refunded. But you clearly watched the races, saw that your dog/virtual horse lost and then chanced your arm! Fair play for trying but they clearly saw what you where doing and rightly told you to GTFO!

[eagle eye]

This is pretty pathetic man, I mean 3 and 6 seconds is nothing. When I used to work in a bookies we had a ten second rule because it's possible to not get every bet on on time if everybody rushes up at the same time so I'm guessing this was similar.

If you said that it was late straight away, and asked for your money back- they would have refunded. But you clearly watched the races, saw that your dog/virtual horse lost and then chanced your arm! Fair play for trying but they clearly saw what you where doing and rightly told you to GTFO!

But why have that gray area at all?

Why not make the rule that if your bet is not on in time then its void. I can guarantee that after a couple of weeks there would be no problems.

[The Situation]

But why have that gray area at all?

Why not make the rule that if your bet is not on in time then its void. I can guarantee that after a couple of weeks there would be no problems.

Because it's often neccessary to be lenient about this rule so your not seen to be Nazi's and void potential winners when only a couple of seconds late. Regular punters would be more pissed off if that happened and a bookies reputation is very important. If seen as too strict, word would spread and they could lose customers to competitors!

I always dealt with situations like this before I returned the docket. Like if it was less than 10 seconds late I'd tell them its fine, but if was more I'd just void it and return their stake on the spot.

[AndyFatBastard]

This is pretty pathetic man, I mean 3 and 6 seconds is nothing. When I used to work in a bookies we had a ten second rule because it's possible to not get every bet on on time if everybody rushes up at the same time so I'm guessing this was similar.

If you said that it was late straight away, and asked for your money back- they would have refunded. But you clearly watched the races, saw that your dog/virtual horse lost and then chanced your arm! Fair play for trying but they clearly saw what you where doing and rightly told you to GTFO!

This.

[Ace]

Anyway i'm pretty confident that the IBAS is going to rule in my favour over this becasue its black and white with the rules but i'm just going to put the €100 towards the cost of filing the objectin anyway

some serious lol in this thread 2day, none more so than this one.

black and white you say?, correct me if i'm wrong but there is no law in ireland that says a bookie has to pay out on say a winning bet that was placed before a race.

you must be loaded if your going to waste a 100 quid filling in a form, but please keep us posted, nice to get a LOL every now and again sir.

[Donkathon]

are you willing to bet on the outcome of your appeal to IBAS? you seem very confident, are you giving odds?

http://img231.imageshack.us/f/81715957.jpg/

[White Knight]

http://img231.imageshack.us/f/81715957.jpg/

You did read the letter, right?

[Donkathon]

You did read the letter, right?

Yes and thats why the €100 will never be collected, gesture of good wil my balls

[White Knight]

Yes and thats why the €100 will never be collected, gesture of good wil my balls

lol

[eagle eye]

You did read the letter, right?

It said he was being refunded did it not?

He said in the thread that he was confident that he would get his money back.

[Donkathon]

It said he was being refunded did it not?

He said in the thread that he was confident that he would get his money back.

Yeah but i thought the idea of the IBAS is what ever they decide is what paddypowers have to do, wheather they are in the right or i am, with PP trowing in the towel i'm annoyed with the IBAS for letting PP dictate a letter "gesture of good will" f* that

[eagle eye]

Yeah but i thought the idea of the IBAS is what ever they decide is what paddypowers have to do, wheather they are in the right or i am, with PP trowing in the towel i'm annoyed with the IBAS for letting PP dictate a letter "gesture of good will" f* that

IBAS has no legal standing. So all they do is make a recommendation, after that its still up to the bookmaker to make a decision.

[Donkathon]

Well after talking to the sargent in wicklow they've put together a file to go before the super when they apply for they personal fitness cert of something in september and that will be blocked when it does so €100 well spent

[Zuroph]

Yes and thats why the €100 will never be collected, gesture of good wil my balls

If you're not collecting it, can I?

[White Knight]

Well after talking to the sargent in wicklow they've put together a file to go before the super when they apply for they personal fitness cert of something in september and that will be blocked when it does so €100 well spent

Because you do not like terms & conditions??

LOL you have the right name! Donk!

[peteypop]

Well after talking to the sargent in wicklow they've put together a file to go before the super when they apply for they personal fitness cert of something in september and that will be blocked when it does so €100 well spent

lol,i take it your sister married the local sargent.lol.

dont tell me they refer to as that simple lad down where u are from.

[eagle eye]

Donkathon, I don't know whats going on with you but you have lost the plot on this thing. Personally I despise Paddy Power and anything to do with them but I wouldn't leave one cent uncollected in their shops or online if it was there for me.

As for Peteypop gtfo with a comment like that and the sad gits thanking it are worse imo.

[White Knight]

As for Peteypop gtfo with a comment like that and the sad gits thanking it are worse imo.

I quoted the terms and conditions I found 2 mins after looking for them earlier in the thread. He has no leg to stand on and yet he wants to try close a shop down and probably 5-7 jobs with it all over a €100 that he is not entitled to in any way???

Who is the sad git imo?

[eagle eye]

I quoted the terms and conditions I found 2 mins after looking for them earlier in the thread. He has no leg to stand on and yet he wants to try close a shop down and probably 5-7 jobs with it all over a €100 that he is not entitled to in any way???

Who is the sad git imo?

I'm just annoyed with the comment peteypop made, its got nothing to do with anything in this thread, but you go and thank him for calling him 'simple'.

[White Knight]

I'm just annoyed with the comment peteypop made, its got nothing to do with anything in this thread, but you go and thank him for calling him 'simple'.

I actually did not see that comment. I thanked it for the first line about the sister married to the sargent actually!

[peteypop]

Donkathon, I don't know whats going on with you but you have lost the plot on this thing. Personally I despise Paddy Power and anything to do with them but I wouldn't leave one cent uncollected in their shops or online if it was there for me.

As for Peteypop gtfo with a comment like that and the sad gits thanking it are worse imo.

eagle eye lol,if u read the first page of this thread u will see i have been shafted by the bookies before,do u think i should go down the gardai station and report it,do u think they would entertain me,i doubt it.Therefore either donkathon is either related to the sargent,or else they are just humoring him because he is the village idiot.HE hasnt a leg to stand on and trying to get a bookies licence taken of the bookie for this complete fiasco when they have offered to pay him,is just completely retarded,Im sorry that u cant see it.

[liz:)]

i worked in a bookies for 6 years and tbf,its a commen problem with people placing late bets.some people are trying to scam,others are genuine mistakes.there are standard enough practices for example,if its a virtual race it wil be voided if its even a second late,same goes for dogs.if its a 5 to 7 furlong sprint its voided straight away,its the cashier that chooses to void the bet or let it stand,she can use her discretion when its blatently just a que at the counter in a 3 mile race and its only a few seconds late,my suspicion is that either the customers had probably had 1 or 2 late bets that day,maybe only 2 or 3 seconds late each time but thats enough time to see if your horse runs,it only takes 3 seconds to know whether your horse has come under oreders and hasnt jumped off,just my oppinion

[AndyFatBastard]

eagle eye lol,if u read the first page of this thread u will see i have been shafted by the bookies before,do u think i should go down the gardai station and report it,do u think they would entertain me,i doubt it.Therefore either donkathon is either related to the sargent,or else they are just humoring him because he is the village idiot.HE hasnt a leg to stand on and trying to get a bookies licence taken of the bookie for this complete fiasco when they have offered to pay him,is just completely retarded,Im sorry that u cant see it.

To be clear about how this process works, when a bookie applies for renewal of their license, any objections are lodged with the licensing authority by the Gardai. The Gardai are duty bound to lodge any objection no matter what it is. It is one of the many public functions that they undertake which are not technically in their remit. The licensing authority are the ones who decide if the objections have any validity and if the license should be renewed. There is absolutely no chance whatsoever of this objection being upheld.

[The Situation]

I'm starting to think Donkathon is a bit of a hero! I mean blind stupidity is not the worst character trait in the world. If he could only channel the persistance he's clearly shown here into something more productive he might amount to something!

[Mellor]

Well after talking to the sargent in wicklow they've put together a file to go before the super when they apply for they personal fitness cert of something in september and that will be blocked when it does so €100 well spent

1. It's not a fitness cert
2. It won't be blocked
3. You are being pretty stupid
4. It's spelt Sergeant

[Murso87]

I recently did a bet with an independent bookmaker in Donegal. It was a €10 double for the Euros. Portugal at 14/1 and Griezmann at 9/1 to be top scorer. The owner of the shop took bet and even checked the odds on line before placing the bet. It should have paid €1500 but he is now saying it's only worth €750.
I know he's trying to pull a fast one and we are at loggerheads at the moment. Any advise??? If I cannot get my money I would just love him to be exposed for what he is..

[sinnerboy]

@ Murso,
What town in Donegal is this? I know of one bookie that does this regularly.

[Mellor]

I recently did a bet with an independent bookmaker in Donegal. It was a €10 double for the Euros. Portugal at 14/1 and Griezmann at 9/1 to be top scorer. The owner of the shop took bet and even checked the odds on line before placing the bet. It should have paid €1500 but he is now saying it's only worth €750.
I know he's trying to pull a fast one and we are at loggerheads at the moment. Any advise??? If I cannot get my money I would just love him to be exposed for what he is..

Do you have the odds written on the docket?

[shano1888]

Was it before the euros started? You can't do that bet as a regular double as far as I know even though they are not related. That said 74/1 seems short for what the winner top gs double would have been pre tourney. Maybe not with griezeman fav. Anyway of seeing what it was priced up as across the board? I would have thought it would have been more than 100s as portugal were bigger than 20s pre tournament.

[Arazi]

They are the correct prices alright. Did you ask the Bookmaker what avenue of Arbitration he has available for disputes? For example is he signed up to IBAS?
You would almost certainly win in IBAS

[Mellor]

You can't do that bet as a regular double as far as I know even though they are not related.

They are related though.
A lot of bookies will still take it. But OP should check what one of the larger chains where offering

[ArmaniJeans]

They are related though.
A lot of bookies will still take it. But OP should check what one of the larger chains where offering

How they are related?
If it was Portugal/Ronaldo then they'd be a related bet, but in this case it was a different country/player combo.
Also arguably if bookies do reduced prices for bets like Portugal/Ronaldo then you should get a bonus for picks like Portugal/Griezmann.

[mdoug]

Not sure of the price for the one that won but bookies were 100% doing these bets for the tournament

[mugsy]

the bookie is correct its not calculated as a double in this case 14/1 and 9/1. Im not sure on the price either. but it will be considerably lower. 75/1 seems about right.
You can find out what other bookmakers priced it at and go from there.

They are related because they are related to the same tournament. Its like naming the finalist isnt just calculated like you would do a forecast bet.

[Mellor]

How they are related?
If it was Portugal/Ronaldo then they'd be a related bet, but in this case it was a different country/player combo.
Also arguably if bookies do reduced prices for bets like Portugal/Ronaldo then you should get a bonus for picks like Portugal/Griezmann.

Because the two markets are intrinsically linked. It's not just about the two teams begin the same. The progression of one team can affect another. For example, Portugal most likely path to the final might have involved them meeting Germany early on. To win the tournament they'd have to knock Germany out, which diminishes Muller (the favourite) odds of being top scorer. If that case, the most likely top scorers would be to Ronaldo or Griezmann. 2nd and 3rd in odds respectively.


You are correct of course that it works both ways and some combos deserve a bonus. But the bookies don't offer that by default. They simply decide to flag the whole market as related. Where they price it as a separate market they award the bonus there.

Some bookies may have taken these bets anyway. Would probably vary.

[Dice75]

Good explaination Mellor.

It seems once there is any link between the bets there would have to be diminished odds or the bet wont be taken. Far more noticable and easier policed online by the bookies. (e.g. you cant place a double on United to win the league and Liverpool to be relegated).

[Murso87]

The bet was done in Moville , Inishowen Bookmakers. The owner himself took the bet (pre tournament) he even checked the odds with Paddy Power)
He's not saying you cannot do a bet like that without the odds being cut, even though they aren't related.He gave an example that if were to back Liverpool 8/1 for the league and Kane to be top scorer 11/2 the odds would be cut.Total nonsense!! I went on line immediately and pulled up said double at 50/1 !!!
He got all tongue twisted and arrogantly said I wasn't getting anymore than €750.

[Murso87]

Sorry got those odds wrong in the Liverpool/ Kane double. Fundamentally it was the same odds when they were doubled.

[Mellor]

He's not saying you cannot do a bet like that without the odds being cut, even though they aren't related.

They are related, as explained previously.
If that's not what he is saying, what is he saying the reason is?
Cutting in half is ridiculously heavy handed though, find out if he is registered with IBAS.

He gave an example that if were to back Liverpool 8/1 for the league and Kane to be top scorer 11/2 the odds would be cut.Total nonsense!! I went on line immediately and pulled up said double at 50/1 !!!

11/2 doubled with 8/1 should be 115/2
50/1 is a cut down price

[shano1888]

Because the two markets are intrinsically linked. It's not just about the two teams begin the same. The progression of one team can affect another. For example, Portugal most likely path to the final might have involved them meeting Germany early on. To win the tournament they'd have to knock Germany out, which diminishes Muller (the favourite) odds of being top scorer. If that case, the most likely top scorers would be to Ronaldo or Griezmann. 2nd and 3rd in odds respectively.


You are correct of course that it works both ways and some combos deserve a bonus. But the bookies don't offer that by default. They simply decide to flag the whole market as related. Where they price it as a separate market they award the bonus there.

Some bookies may have taken these bets anyway. Would probably vary.

That's what I was alluding to in an extremely lazy way!

I still think 74/1 is short though although open to correction. I think muller England was like 50s and England were 8s and portugal were 20s + with muller and griezeman joint favs or close to it. Anyway of seeing what it was??

[Mellor]

Sorry got those odds wrong in the Liverpool/ Kane double. Fundamentally it was the same odds when they were doubled.

They can't be doubled with Paddy Power. Singes only

That's what I was alluding to in an extremely lazy way!

I still think 74/1 is short though although open to correction. I think muller England was like 50s and England were 8s and portugal were 20s + with muller and griezeman joint favs or close to it. Anyway of seeing what it was??

Murso posted the odds in his OP. 9/1 and 14/1
Return would have been €1,500 (149/1) as a double. Bookie is just cutting return in half chancing his arm

[Wesley Harms]

Powers have special doubles for those bets.

Also just wondering from reading the thread how did Paddy get on with the renewal of license that time

[shano1888]

They can't be doubled with Paddy Power. Singes only



Murso posted the odds in his OP. 9/1 and 14/1
Return would have been €1,500 (149/1) as a double. Bookie is just cutting return in half chancing his arm

I mean what the odds would have been for portugal griezeman double pre tournament.

[Flushdraw]

I agree with the bookies here.

The individual prices for Portugal win and Griezmann TG are no doubt correct, but as a double the odds would be reduced.

e.g

On BetVictor pre tournament, Portugal were 18/1 and Ronaldo was 8/1 for top goalscorer. That's €1710 as a €10 double but the bet couldn't have been placed that way. The actual Portugal/Ronaldo double available on BV was only 33/1

Germany were 4/1 and Muller TG was 8/1 so €450 as a €10 double, but the price of a Germany/Muller double was only 16/1

[ArmaniJeans]

I agree with the bookies here.

The individual prices for Portugal win and Griezmann TG are no doubt correct, but as a double the odds would be reduced.

e.g

On BetVictor pre tournament, Portugal were 18/1 and Ronaldo was 8/1 for top goalscorer. That's €1710 as a €10 double but the bet couldn't have been placed that way. The actual Portugal/Ronaldo double available on BV was only 33/1

Germany were 4/1 and Muller TG was 8/1 so €450 as a €10 double, but the price of a Germany/Muller double was only 16/1

It makes perfect sense for Country/SameCountryPlayer double to be a reduced price, don't think anyone here would argue otherwise.
Question really is is it right that a 'different' combination can also be a reduced price? Mellor makes a reasonably convincing case that it can be correct though its slightly dependent on the draw.

[The Situation]

I agree with the bookies here.

The individual prices for Portugal win and Griezmann TG are no doubt correct, but as a double the odds would be reduced.

e.g

On BetVictor pre tournament, Portugal were 18/1 and Ronaldo was 8/1 for top goalscorer. That's €1710 as a €10 double but the bet couldn't have been placed that way. The actual Portugal/Ronaldo double available on BV was only 33/1

Germany were 4/1 and Muller TG was 8/1 so €450 as a €10 double, but the price of a Germany/Muller double was only 16/1

Both those examples are far more related than OPs example so not any way relevant. His one is only slightly related and odds wouldn't be too far from the actual double odds. But in reality it's a difficult market to price and doubt bookies put much effort in and just erred on the side of caution with their pricing.

[Mellor]

It makes perfect sense for Country/SameCountryPlayer double to be a reduced price, don't think anyone here would argue otherwise.
Question really is is it right that a 'different' combination can also be a reduced price? Mellor makes a reasonably convincing case that it can be correct though its slightly dependent on the draw.

My example points out how it can be related, but it also creates situations where hinder each other. So a bookie pricing the full market should have bonus odds on some options, if he cuts down 'differnet' options.
More likely is the above same/same odds are just a attempt to screw the punter in a market that might not have a winner


It's really hard to find results/odds for these market. As most bookies adjusted in running

[Dice75]

It makes perfect sense for Country/SameCountryPlayer double to be a reduced price, don't think anyone here would argue otherwise.
Question really is is it right that a 'different' combination can also be a reduced price? Mellor makes a reasonably convincing case that it can be correct though its slightly dependent on the draw.

Exactly, problem is say if Portugal & France had started in the same group you're not going to get higher odds from the bookie despite there being "friction" in the bet outcome.

[Guest]

Ask him for a detailed explanation of how he worked out that he should pay you 750

Laugh at him

Then go to IBAS or whatever they are called

[Guest]

ooh and

Do you have the odds written on the docket?

?

[Guest]

You could just go to IBAS but imo you won't get much tbh. I'd take the reduced prices. That potentially a palped bet if realised.

[balfejohn]

Stand outside the shop on a busy day and have a banner telling one and all that he won't fully pay out on your winning bet
If that don't work send ur letter to ur local politicians there mad to help people nowadays

[bustamoves]

You're not entitled to a payout of 1500 and the bookie is not obliged to pay you out at those odds either. I think you'll find the 750 won't be far off at all. These markets are priced up at big profit margins in shops going on experience so if he didn't have that price available in his own shop then he can go on an industry average.

I don't think it's fair to say he's intentionally screwing you over until you can find what the industry prices were and compare it.

[Mellor]

Then go to IBAS or whatever they are called

You could just go to IBAS but imo you won't get much tbh.

I'm not fully sure how IBAS works, but I've a feeling it's voluntary.
And it looks bookie isn't registered

http://www.ibas-uk.com/registeredOperators.php?start=i-j

I don't think it's fair to say he's intentionally screwing you over until you can find what the industry prices were and compare it.

This. Where you'd find the pre-comp prices I don't know

[The Situation]

I'm sure if you rang Paddy's cs team they could find out for you. Just say you did the bet in one of their shops and just want to confirm the pre tourney odds.

Not that it will make any difference though, the guy in the Donegal shop can offer whatever odds he wants. Assume you just had the single prices on the docket and didn't know it was a related double. He'll be able to angle his way out of any IBAS dispute over this so don't think it's worth persuing.

[CHDad]

I'm starting to think Donkathon is a bit of a hero! I mean blind stupidity is not the worst character trait in the world. If he could only channel the persistance he's clearly shown here into something more productive he might amount to something!

You named yourself after someone from Jersey Shore, please reflect.

[Lord Sir Banter]

Stand outside the shop on a busy day and have a banner telling one and all that he won't fully pay out on your winning bet
If that don't work send ur letter to ur local politicians there mad to help people nowadays

Get the Haely-Rays on to it

[mugsy]

if you use web archives sites you will be able to find the odds given. i had a quick look there on oddschecker before the starts of euros and could find this market but only had screengrabs of the top page in market. so didnt find this bet. maybe if you did sites individually you will find it handy enough I couldnt be arsed doing multiple searches but maybe you dont want find out your wrong

[Guest]

I think you can take whatever screengrabs, go wherever you like etc, it's irrelevant.
Top Goalscorer is in essence a derivative of the outright. Those markets can't be accumulated unless it's a special that's been advertised.
If that bet was placed online and accepted, as soon as it was noticed(if it was noticed) it would be palped.
I would take his offer in this spot, it's not a bad offer by any means and is more than you would get from bigger firms.

[Crumbs]

The Portugal & Griezmann double was 150/1 with Paddy Power pre-tournament.