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Hand from €800 Live MTT

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    Hand from €800 Live MTT

    This hand still bothers me.

    Early stages, I have a pretty good image although I have been playing pretty aggressively. Every showdown I've made has been a very good hand. I have three or four barrelled several times though without showing.

    Utg, who has been playing pretty tight opens utg. One caller and I overcall on the button with 94 of spades. Both blinds call. I call here since I think utgs range is pretty tight, we are deep and the caller is very bad.

    The flop comes up 234 with the 2 and 3 of spades. So I have top pair and a flush draw.

    Everyone checks to me and I bet. The BB calls, and utg then raises. I can't remember the exact amounts, but I bet about 1/2 the pot and he made a largeish check raise, I think to about 10k. We are playing 80k effective. Call raise or fold? If we are calling or raising whats our plan?

    The only hand of note I saw the BB play was in a large multiway pot he took the lead on the turn with a bare gutshot and got there on the river. It was a great/good bet as it looked really strong, the river card gave someone two pair whilst making him the nuts. If nothing changed and he bet the river it would have gotten through. Other than that he has played tight and straightfoward, mainly concentrating on his ipad. Its clear these stakes don't affect him. I don't think he knows anything about me.

    #2
    when u say early,we need to know the blind levels considering his check raise on the flop is to 10k
    The smarter you play the luckier you'll be
    MTT Calender 2015

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      #3
      I can't remember the exact numbers, but I know that I we were deep to the point where if I called his raise the stack to pot ratio would be a little greater than 4:1. His raise wasn't huge, it was less than pot, but it was pretty big for a mtt player.

      250 500 makes sense, 4.5k in the pot pre, I bet 2.2k, there's a caller and he makes it 9.

      Comment


        #4
        I just flat the ckraise and probably just give up on the turn. It seems to be pretty straightforward tbh.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by TheImprover View Post
          I just flat the ckraise and probably just give up on the turn. It seems to be pretty straightforward tbh.
          Havent put any thought into this but if we flat (possibly bringing along the BB) what are we doing on a spade turn?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Dice75 View Post
            Havent put any thought into this but if we flat (possibly bringing along the BB) what are we doing on a spade turn?
            If we flat and the bb does call, and a spade does come, we have to re-evaluate,
            It's unlikely he will have a set as he should be re-raising us with all his sets, bb could possibly have hit the wheel where he should be re-raising the 3bet from utg and then I think we should be folding as more than likely we will be playing for our stack.

            Utg is showing a lot of strength here, possibly 22/33/44/AA/KK, he could be expecting hector to bet out on most flops so at the same time it could be a good spot to bluff at this.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by TheImprover View Post
              If we flat and the bb does call, and a spade does come, we have to re-evaluate,
              It's unlikely he will have a set as he should be re-raising us with all his sets, bb could possibly have hit the wheel where he should be re-raising the 3bet from utg and then I think we should be folding as more than likely we will be playing for our stack.

              Utg is showing a lot of strength here, possibly 22/33/44/AA/KK, he could be expecting hector to bet out on most flops so at the same time it could be a good spot to bluff at this.
              When i read the hand, i thought blinds were 300/600 because it would make sense, but if HJ says 250/500 then we're even deeper.

              I don't think UTG has any of the hands you suggest. It would be pretty silly to potentially give a free card with AA/KK especially when we're deep and he can still get plenty of value from pairs/draws etc. If he has a set, h should be quite happy to let (an aggro) HJ barrel off here and not try to fold out his worse hands/bluffs.

              It looks like AKs/AQs/AJs/A5s imo. I'd call the flop raise and proceed cautiously on the turn depending on the card/bet size. Wouldn't be 100% confident on what we want to see on the turn so having a good read on our opponent here is vital. I'm just discounting the BB as catching a peice but folding to the CR. If he calls the CR, it gets more tricky.

              FWIW, i don't like the call pre, or any reasons for doing so. Unless we're looking to outplay the table in position, then catching a piece will probably end up costing us more chips. Suited 2 gapers, i can see a case for and would be the bottom of the calling range, but 94s is just going in the muck.

              Comment


                #8
                Really don't like call pre, I agree having a wide flating range here will likely show profit deep but not any 2 suited cards with 160bbs effective, I think it's really close between peeling or just dumping it on flop, if UTG is competent his hand range is entirely sets straights and strong draws here, doing this with over pairs is beyond awful vs 2 people who's ranges connect with this board far more than his, so we are really not doing well vs any range he has. Think I do call once though and dump it vs a reasonable bet on a brick, check back if he checks to us on a spade, 9/4. If it bricks and he checks to us its v interesting, might bet small and snap check river as shouldn't have a set or straight any more which just leaves him with some awful bluff or combo draw which were now beating.
                They will be like WTF how does he always have the top of his range, and they will be saying that when you show up with like nine's - Jimmy Fricke
                Nine's are the top of my range - Shaun Deeb

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                  #9
                  Fold pre-flop. I cant see how we are up against anything other sets or flush draws that have us dominated. I think I fold flop tbh

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                    #10
                    If utg is tight then we can probably rule out small pairs,an overpair would probably bet out this flop,maybe not AA always,looks like AXs.But calling flop cr and then folding on turn is not great.The BB is still sticking around aswell so Id sigh fold flop reluctantly.
                    The thing about calling with these sort of hands pre is that if you do hit you can still be in no mans land often

                    Comment


                      #11
                      You've established a pretty aggressive image so presumably both are expecting you to start firing when the flop is checked to you. BB's range here is often going to be the more problematic in terms of out drawing you or having you drawing dead or thin already.

                      The potential for a costly RIO situation is now compounded.

                      Calling preflop is something I think you can go either way with. I like you're bet when checked to but now a fold to the c/r is safest and best since BB is potentially continuing.

                      Of course you'll see random shit at showdown from time to time when you've folded here and it's turned out to be a situation where one or both players have played their hands weirdly or terribly but too often you're in bad shape vs one of them such that bet/fold OTF is optimal I'm guessing.

                      Good to see some posts back here from the ol HJ. Always suspiciously crafted conundrums to get the masses at loggerheads with one another!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I just reread the OP and saw I made a mistake, in the last paragraph I described a hand I saw UTG (the villain) play but I said BB.

                        Anyway I ended up folding, I absolutely hate bet folding draws, but I thoughts UTG range was such that I had no good outs, its going to be hard to get value from anything. I know some of my outs are going to be good, but not which ones. I would have happily called a single bet here, but I didn't want to play a huge pot where I had little idea where I stood.

                        Before I bet I thought the chance of utg raising me was virtually zero, its such a weird line and I hadn't been aggressive enough for him to be sure I was going to bet. I discounted him bluffing to a certain extent since the BB called.

                        Preflop given the overcaller I think its a call, I didn't mention it in the OP because he just folded the flop but he was superbad. I think a player who enjoys a substantial skill differential can turn a profit calling any two suited cards (and many unsuited) 150BBs deep in position. This deep I think your exact hand strength preflop isn't really that important compared to other factors.

                        Your equity preflop isn't that different with 89s than 49s, it has 18% equity, 89s 22%. Of course you end up with the nuts a little more often with 89s

                        That all said I ended up not knowing where I was against a player who is probably better than me!

                        Thanks for the responses.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
                          Preflop given the overcaller I think its a call, I didn't mention it in the OP because he just folded the flop but he was superbad. I think a player who enjoys a substantial skill differential can turn a profit calling any two suited cards (and many unsuited) 150BBs deep in position. This deep I think your exact hand strength preflop isn't really that important compared to other factors.

                          Your equity preflop isn't that different with 89s than 49s, it has 18% equity, 89s 22%. Of course you end up with the nuts a little more often with 89s
                          Yea that makes sense at 150bb allright,your call will bring in the blinds too so you would be getting good odds and good position,

                          Comment


                            #14
                            still don't like the call 9,4s in a multi-way pot. v a tight utg raiser and a very bad player and probably the blinds too. are you calling so you can bluff the flop or are you hoping to hit? 150bb deep or not cant see it being too profitable. as the hand played your put in an awkward spot on the flop and don't really know where you are if you hit lot of your outs, suppose you call and improve on the turn are you going to be able to fold if the turn is a 9 or 4? even if the flush comes you can still be left with a tough decision as Asxs would check raise this flop
                            The smarter you play the luckier you'll be
                            MTT Calender 2015

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