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    Wasn't at seat for 1st card off the deck

    Players Must be at their seats for 1st card off the deck in order to have a live hand...

    Pre-flop, UTG calls. Folded around to Button who raises. SB folds and BB calls. Then UTG re-raises. Then BB palyer says UTG wasn't at his seat for even the last card off the deck. All Players and the dealer agree. how do you rule this?
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    #2
    Originally posted by Vegas Events View Post
    Players Must be at their seats for 1st card off the deck in order to have a live hand...

    Pre-flop, UTG calls. Folded around to Button who raises. SB folds and BB calls. Then UTG re-raises. Then BB palyer says UTG wasn't at his seat for even the last card off the deck. All Players and the dealer agree. how do you rule this?
    Play on. UTG has already been allowed one action without any objections from other players and several actions have happened since.

    If players had a problem they should have stated that when he open limped. Dealer should be paying more attention as well.

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      #3
      Originally posted by kakak1 View Post
      Play on. UTG has already been allowed one action without any objections from other players and several actions have happened since.

      If players had a problem they should have stated that when he open limped. Dealer should be paying more attention as well.

      What if UTG takes a player out of the tournament in that hand? If you were the player taken out how would you feel especially when you brought it to TD's attention before anyone called UTG's raise?
      sigpic IPO 2019, 23rd to 28th October - Irelands favorite Poker Event. More info Here

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        #4
        Thats a bit tricky Nick, as Dave says lots of action already in the hand
        a few options i guess
        1 Play on as action is deemed to have taken place and leave it to the gods
        2 Take his hand out of play and return his chips to him leaving the hand to play out
        3 Redeal the whole thing as the other players actions have been affected by his action
        4 Shoot the dealer for putting you in the pickle in the first place

        I still think the first one is the best as the at your seat rule is there to protect the other players hands from players lurking aroud the table. his hand is his hand and you will have made your ruling before anyone is all in so they know where they stand at that point.
        Just when you think you've seen everything ah
        Atlantis Events Beat The Boss Saturday 7th Mar @5pm €5,000 Gtd The Dolmen Carlow

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          #5
          Originally posted by Vegas Events View Post
          What if UTG takes a player out of the tournament in that hand? If you were the player taken out how would you feel especially when you brought it to TD's attention before anyone called UTG's raise?
          I always say it, I never ever try to claim a hand on a technicality.

          You have to assume the same action would have happened if he had been at the table so I was going out anyway. I never try to get caught up too much on the "stupid rules" (but necessary nevertheless) like not been there for the first card dealt, on the mobile so long as players are not abusing them.

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            #6
            Originally posted by Vegas Events View Post
            What if UTG takes a player out of the tournament in that hand? If you were the player taken out how would you feel especially when you brought it to TD's attention before anyone called UTG's raise?
            The result of the hand is irrelevant. if someone is knocked out or if its a split pot the decision is the same.

            Players had the chance to call attention to the discrepancy when it occurred, they didn't so it continues as normal.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Vegas Events View Post
              Pre-flop, UTG calls. Folded around to Button who raises. SB folds and BB calls. Then UTG re-raises. Then BB palyer says UTG wasn't at his seat for even the last card off the deck. All Players and the dealer agree. how do you rule this?
              If he wasn't at his hand for first dealt card, then his hard would have been autofolded or even dealt to the muck.
              The dealer didn't do this and decided to let him play the hand. So the fact that he agrees with the other players is irrelevant.
              The BB is angle shooting. Simple as. They had an opportunity to mention that he wasn't in his seat for the deal when he limped. Had they raised it could of been acted on. When they decided to say nothing they are passive allowing to play the hand.

              Originally posted by Vegas Events View Post
              What if UTG takes a player out of the tournament in that hand? If you were the player taken out how would you feel especially when you brought it to TD's attention before anyone called UTG's raise?
              How would they feel? lol
              Nobody has any case for a sob story unless they raised it when he limped. But I'm sure they'll get great millage out of that bad beat story in the bar.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Mellor View Post
                Nobody has any case for a sob story unless they raised it when he limped.
                Yep. Button should've raised it before he raised. As he didn't, both SB and BB had chances to raise it before calling the button raise. In fact, if any player at the table had raised it before considering raising, the situation might not have arisen.

                Comment


                  #9
                  hmmmm... I feel a little different to the general consensus here.

                  The rule about having to be at your seat for first card off the deck is there for a reason... It's there because as a player is approaching the table after cards have already been dealt the players at that table are already looking at their own cards. As the late player approaches the table he could quite easily see the other players cards. That is why the rule is there!

                  In these situations a floor person is on damage control duty. His job is to make the best out of a bad situation with the least amount of damage to the hand.

                  UTG limped and then it was folded around to the button who raised. SB folds and BB calls. At this point UTG's limp hasn't yet had any major impact on the hand. At this point it's brought to the attention of the TD that according to the rules, UTG is not entitled to play the hand. It's very possible that UTG has seen a players cards (especially given that he is seated beside the player on BB). I feel that at this point it's best to give UTG back his limp and kill his hand. Then allow the two other players to play out the hand the way it should have been.

                  The reason given here in this thread for allowing UTG to continue the hand is that the other players left it too late to mention the situation. I feel if UTG's re-raise had been either folded to or called or raised by another player then I would have no choice but to allow him to continue. But I feel that his limp has not yet had a big impact on the hand.

                  Just my opinion though
                  sigpic IPO 2019, 23rd to 28th October - Irelands favorite Poker Event. More info Here

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Vegas Events View Post
                    hmmmm... I feel a little different to the general consensus here.

                    The rule about having to be at your seat for first card off the deck is there for a reason... It's there because as a player is approaching the table after cards have already been dealt the players at that table are already looking at their own cards. As the late player approaches the table he could quite easily see the other players cards. That is why the rule is there!

                    In these situations a floor person is on damage control duty. His job is to make the best out of a bad situation with the least amount of damage to the hand.

                    UTG limped and then it was folded around to the button who raised. SB folds and BB calls. At this point UTG's limp hasn't yet had any major impact on the hand. At this point it's brought to the attention of the TD that according to the rules, UTG is not entitled to play the hand. It's very possible that UTG has seen a players cards (especially given that he is seated beside the player on BB). I feel that at this point it's best to give UTG back his limp and kill his hand. Then allow the two other players to play out the hand the way it should have been.

                    The reason given here in this thread for allowing UTG to continue the hand is that the other players left it too late to mention the situation. I feel if UTG's re-raise had been either folded to or called or raised by another player then I would have no choice but to allow him to continue. But I feel that his limp has not yet had a big impact on the hand.

                    Just my opinion though
                    The fact that it had an impact at all is the point, not the size of the impact. His limp could've easily been the reason utg+1 folded or the only reason someone called. any action is going to change the course of a hand even if it is only slightly.

                    UTG+1 and all subsequent players are making their decisions this hand based on the information they have, in this case that UTG is limping.
                    Would you give the hands back to all the other players who folded because you have now decided that UTG shouldn't be live anymore and have essentially changed the information that was available to them.

                    Yes, ideally he should've been stopped before he made any action, or at the very least before someone followed up with a subsequent action, but it was not so it must now play out.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Vegas Events View Post
                      UTG limped and then it was folded around to the button who raised. SB folds and BB calls. At this point UTG's limp hasn't yet had any major impact on the hand. At this point it's brought to the attention of the TD that according to the rules, UTG is not entitled to play the hand. It's very possible that UTG has seen a players cards (especially given that he is seated beside the player on BB). I feel that at this point it's best to give UTG back his limp and kill his hand. Then allow the two other players to play out the hand the way it should have been.

                      The reason given here in this thread for allowing UTG to continue the hand is that the other players left it too late to mention the situation. I feel if UTG's re-raise had been either folded to or called or raised by another player then I would have no choice but to allow him to continue. But I feel that his limp has not yet had a big impact on the hand.

                      Just my opinion though
                      Your logic above is bizarre.
                      You say limp had no impact on the hand so it was ok. At what point would it have had an impact? Say he didn't raise, and called down to the river with the winning hand. Has it now had an impact?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Vegas Events View Post
                        UTG limped and then it was folded around to the button who raised. SB folds and BB calls. At this point UTG's limp hasn't yet had any major impact on the hand. At this point it's brought to the attention of the TD that according to the rules, UTG is not entitled to play the hand.
                        This is very different to how you describe it in OP. In this revised version, I would find it a lot easier to give him back his limp and remove him from the hand.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          hand plays on and it's not even close imo

                          If hand gets to river and the point is raised, do u kill UTG's and give him his bets back? What if UTG raises the point now (he could easily have limped and now doesn't want to call a raise, so is angling to get his limp back).

                          When or who raises the point should have no impact.


                          Dealer should be paying more attention but doing anything other than letting the hand play on now is a terrible ruling imo.
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