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Old Today, 13:44   #45961
Tar.Aldarion
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Any pharmacy in the city centre do an iron blood test? All I can see is one in Whitehall.
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Old Today, 13:54   #45962
Keane
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Agree with RD3, she's been mind-boggingly terrible in every facet bar grim determination to stay in the hotseat.

The fact that every other 'big name' Tory would arguably be worse doesn't make her any good, despite what an incredible indictment that is.
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Old Today, 13:56   #45963
Raoul Duke III
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This guy does good Brexit:

Quote:
May: the pretence of a consensual compromise

That direction of travel was realistic in the limited, but by no means unimportant, sense that it led to an agreement – May’s deal – being made in the form that we have now seen. But May remains wholly unrealistic in, now, presenting it as a ‘compromise’ between leave and remain positions which she expects both sides to ‘get behind’. By first tacking so hard towards the Brexit Ultras, and dismissing remainers, and then partly rowing back, she has created a version of Brexit which pleases almost no one.

That simply can’t be covered over by repeating, as she did when opening the debate, what against stiff competition is one of the most egregious lies told in the Brexit process. That is the proposition that since both main parties at the 2017 General Election endorsed not just Brexit but the hard Brexit of no single market membership, and since 80% of voters voted for one of these parties, this ‘proves’ there is overwhelming support for both Brexit and hard Brexit. It is manifestly nonsense, as is shown not least by the hallowed result of the 2016 Referendum. It is simply a pretence to claim anything other than that the country, like the House of Commons, is bitterly and more or less equally divided
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Old Today, 14:22   #45964
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Originally Posted by Gimmeabreak View Post
I think RDIII is very hard on May. Easy to be back seat driver and say she is useless and compare her to Thatcher. But the reality is there's not a lot of meat on the bones of your assertion of how useless she is. Could somebody else in the Tory party be doing a better job right now?

I think history will be kind to May. She never once comes across as driven by any sort of ego or sense of Etonian entitlement that precipitates so many of the others looking for her job. She always comes across as trying her best and have a sense of service to achieve an outcome. It's never ever been about her. I think we would be witnessing this same shit show regardless of who was in the hot seat. I admire her perseverance, particularly when compared to Cameron who ran for the hills.
wow thats a really shitty way of judging if someone is good or not. By saying that others are even worse.

She got into the job in the first place by hiring posters on trucks to be driven through immigrant neighbourhoods telling people to go home. She initiated in the Home Office the Windrush deportations in order to play to the racist base of Tories.

And she herself was the architect of her own downfall. The early election bluff and then having zero charismatic ability to persuade the population to follow her (indeed she held no debates) in her attempt at getting a personal mandate to run a job she'd got into unelected by playing the internal racist card. She then hastily agreed a backstop last December which is what led to the current enforcement of the backstop by EU.

She's both a shit person and shit at her job.
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Old Today, 14:34   #45965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmeabreak View Post
I think RDIII is very hard on May. Easy to be back seat driver and say she is useless and compare her to Thatcher. But the reality is there's not a lot of meat on the bones of your assertion of how useless she is. Could somebody else in the Tory party be doing a better job right now?

I think history will be kind to May. She never once comes across as driven by any sort of ego or sense of Etonian entitlement that precipitates so many of the others looking for her job. She always comes across as trying her best and have a sense of service to achieve an outcome. It's never ever been about her. I think we would be witnessing this same shit show regardless of who was in the hot seat. I admire her perseverance, particularly when compared to Cameron who ran for the hills.

She has:
Tried to push through triggering Article 50 without giving parliament a say, losing in the courts.
Tried to push through Henry VIII powers that would change democratic process in parliament.
Called election grossly misjudging the consensus among the populace
Lost said election then bribed the DUP to keep her in power.
Tried to push through leaving the EU without giving MPs a meaningful vote.
Tried to avoid sharing legal advice given to her with parliament, losing in the courts.
Become the first PM in history to have her government found in contempt of parliament.
Run away from a vote on her deal as she knows it would fail.

And that is before we talk about her influence in the Windrush scandal and lies on the Citizens Rights Directive.

Fuck her
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Old Today, 14:36   #45966
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LOL safe to say a few disagreements there BCB
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Old Today, 14:43   #45967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
Look at everything that has happened since she became PM:
  1. the ludicrous GE, she bears 100% of the blame for that clusterfuck - which made the DUP central to Brexit
  2. The completely unsustainable red lines she set out - and then abandoned one by one
  3. Sending successive Brexit secretaries and negotiators to Brussels - with no iota of what they were supposed to achieve. Weygand's team just laughed at them.
  4. The humiliation in parliament last week.
  5. The humiliation in European capitals this week
.

That's just the high-level points. At every step of the process she has prevaricated, dithered and procrastinated. She's not a leader and her premiership will be remembered for a botched delivery of Brexit that united everyone in the UK in opposition to it.
The early election call is a her issue and she's not the first leader to have called something like that wrong.

The rest I'm not sure they are a her issue, or a "leader of" issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
wow thats a really shitty way of judging if someone is good or not. By saying that others are even worse.
Who's judging her by that? You do understand what '?' stands for at the end of a sentence? Could somebody else do a better job, and why? More on this at the bottom...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
She got into the job in the first place by hiring posters on trucks to be driven through immigrant neighbourhoods telling people to go home. She initiated in the Home Office the Windrush deportations in order to play to the racist base of Tories.

And she herself was the architect of her own downfall. The early election bluff and then having zero charismatic ability to persuade the population to follow her (indeed she held no debates) in her attempt at getting a personal mandate to run a job she'd got into unelected by playing the internal racist card. She then hastily agreed a backstop last December which is what led to the current enforcement of the backstop by EU.

She's both a shit person and shit at her job.
With the exception of your point on the backstop that a great history lesson and all, however, it has the square root of nothing got to do with my point of question.

If I was to summarise my general point...

> whoever is trying to steer the ship would face a near impossible task due to the factions within the tory party, let alone having to also deal with the political grandstanding from opposition parties.

> We are assessing a situation with incredibly limited information. We are not far off the headline from a few weeks back where "woman sent to jail for stealing €1.50 box of pringles" in terms of how little information we are making an assessment on. She has her own media but she is against a very united front of the rest of the EU in terms on controlling the public narrative.

> I think the fact that she is going to convincingly win the VONC later tells a big story which we've not read into.
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Old Today, 14:53   #45968
Keane
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Good news for people who like tax breaks!

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Old Today, 14:57   #45969
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LOL safe to say a few disagreements there BCB
History being kind is ranking her above eden who was at the reigns for Suez.
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Old Today, 15:00   #45970
Raoul Duke III
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History being kind is ranking her above eden who was at the reigns for Suez.
In fairness, whatever ranking she gets should be shared with Cameron.
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Old Today, 15:02   #45971
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I do agree that May came into power in an extremely difficult situation, but every major decision she has made has turned to be almost the exact wrong decision.

In fairness, this latest stunt of pulling the vote on the WA could prove to be inspired - but I suspect they'll fuck up the opportunity they have blundered into soon enough.

For her to get any credit I feel I would have to believe she's making a huge mess of everything on purpose in some Machiavellian scheme but I don't buy it for a second.
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Old Today, 15:23   #45972
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She is doing a better job than Corbyn.
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Old Today, 16:06   #45973
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She is doing a better job than Corbyn.
He's a sneaky fucker.
The circumstances are such that he cannot have power. Probably not now, definitely not later. The issue is that he has made tabling a vote of no-confidence a preliminary first step to calling for a second referendum.
It doesn't matter tables the motion or not of its own sake, only because he himself has made it part of the process.
He is now hiding behind that process. It was the intention of conference that he would do one, then the other. Not that he would just do neither. If the intention was for him to only make the MONC when he was certain to win it, then there would be no need for a part 2 to the process. Everyone apart from Team Corbyn has always known and has always said that he is never going to get the numbers to defeat the government in this way but the high command dug their heels in and the party said "fine, do it your way, but when that fails, we do it our way". That was the implied agreement. By refusing to even try, he is frustrating that agreement.

If nothing changes later it's too late to do the second part and J-Dog knows it.
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Old Today, 16:43   #45974
Raoul Duke III
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Originally Posted by Gimmeabreak View Post
> I think the fact that she is going to convincingly win the VONC later tells a big story which we've not read into.
The VoNC is happening by accident today, don't forget. This wasn't the plan for Rees-Mogg and his assorted cronies at all.

Plus as well there's probably 100/150 Tories who will vote whatever way the wind blows.

And, even when she wins, she still has to own the unmitigated fuckup she's made of Brexit. This cartoon sideshow today weakens her already weak pisituon even further.

Note: I'm not proposing anyone who could do a better job. Most of the leading Tories are droolers. And as for Labour....it still doesn't mitigate how terrible she's been.
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Old Today, 16:48   #45975
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Apparently 174 MPs have come out in support of her today, needs 159 to win.
No reason to believe that the remainder are necessarily against, they may just have not been contactable or expressed a preference.

It is a private ballot though as far as I know.
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