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€550 Live Game; Three streets with bottom pair

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    €550 Live Game; Three streets with bottom pair

    Live €550 game.
    Hero has been active but not really out of line thus far.
    BTN likes playing IP and has shown good TAG qualities, but may defend a tad wide here.

    Blinds 50/100.

    Preflop (150);
    Folds to hero (UTG+1) who raises to 250 with 7h6h. BTN calls. BB calls.

    Flop (800); Ks-8s-6c
    Checked to hero who cbets 400.
    BTN calls after seeming to mull over his options for a little longer than normal. BB folds.

    Turn (1600); Ah
    Hero bets 875.
    BTN calls, a little quicker this time but still gave it some thought.

    River (3350); 8h
    Hero checks. BTN bets 2275. Hero..?

    So my thinking went like this. On the flop I may very well still have the best hand, however my cbet will look strong and may fold out some hands that beat me while also preventing the free card to two players. Once called, I suspect villains range is mainly composed of Kx/8x/JJ-77/draws.

    When I bet again OTT it's to fold out the mediocre 1P hands that may have called me OTF, as this is obv a great scare card for me to barrel, however once called I think I can safely rule out these hands and assign a range of Kx/combo-draw.Combo draws here are basically flush-draws with gut-shots, namely QsJs/QsTs/JsTs/Ts9s/etc. or AsXs hands that got there.

    I check the river because I don't think I accomplish anything by betting, but once villain bets this big I'm slightly confused.. Thoughts?
    "c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"

    #2
    Fold. Button most likely AsXs. Button is value betting you on the river.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Winning! View Post
      Live €550 game.
      Hero has been active but not really out of line thus far.
      BTN likes playing IP and has shown good TAG qualities, but may defend a tad wide here.

      Blinds 50/100.

      Preflop (150);
      Folds to hero (UTG+1) who raises to 250 with 7h6h. BTN calls. BB calls.

      Flop (800); Ks-8s-6c
      Checked to hero who cbets 400.
      BTN calls after seeming to mull over his options for a little longer than normal. BB folds.

      Turn (1600); Ah
      Hero bets 875.
      BTN calls, a little quicker this time but still gave it some thought.

      River (3350); 8h
      Hero checks. BTN bets 2275. Hero..?

      So my thinking went like this. On the flop I may very well still have the best hand, however my cbet will look strong and may fold out some hands that beat me while also preventing the free card to two players. Once called, I suspect villains range is mainly composed of Kx/8x/JJ-77/draws.

      When I bet again OTT it's to fold out the mediocre 1P hands that may have called me OTF, as this is obv a great scare card for me to barrel, however once called I think I can safely rule out these hands and assign a range of Kx/combo-draw.Combo draws here are basically flush-draws with gut-shots, namely QsJs/QsTs/JsTs/Ts9s/etc. or AsXs hands that got there.

      I check the river because I don't think I accomplish anything by betting, but once villain bets this big I'm slightly confused.. Thoughts?
      You didn't put stack sizes in.

      Do you think he would bet the river with Axss where x<K to fold out splits? Would you?

      He can probably have almost all the combos of Ak given positions and the fact that its a tournament i presume.

      He didn't bet that big at all? Like ~2300 into ~2900 no?

      Just stove it really i think,

      assign a range with Axss and one without and do something like,

      (Ak, missed combo draws)
      (Axss, Ak, missed combo draws)

      My feeling is its probably a fold without working it out unless you think he'd always 3bet AK and wouldnt bet the river with Axss

      Comment


        #4
        i think it's a fold. i'm assuming 200bb stack early in big tourny? if so there are 8s in range imo.

        Comment


          #5
          If he has shown good TAG qualities, there is a strong chance he's been slowplaying a monster here.

          Comment


            #6
            Fold pre given its only the 2nd level, as played fold river, he will have some airballs but not enough to justify calling. I am really tempted for us to go for the 3rd barrel and turn our tiny bit of showdown value into a bluff though, not sure how many Axs are in his range but anything apart from that has to fold if he is anyway good (8's are v unlikely to be in his hand).
            They will be like WTF how does he always have the top of his range, and they will be saying that when you show up with like nine's - Jimmy Fricke
            Nine's are the top of my range - Shaun Deeb

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by colquhom View Post
              You didn't put stack sizes in.

              Do you think he would bet the river with Axss where x<K to fold out splits? Would you?

              He didn't bet that big at all? Like ~2300 into ~2900 no?

              My feeling is its probably a fold without working it out unless you think he'd always 3bet AK and wouldnt bet the river with Axss
              Stacks are roughly 15k, and no relevent sizing history to call on. AK is definitely in his range here and makes sense with this sizing, but I feel any AsXs would be happy with showdown or just a much smaller valuebet so he might not show up with it as often as you would think.

              Originally posted by Daragh999 View Post
              I am really tempted for us to go for the 3rd barrel and turn our tiny bit of showdown value into a bluff though, not sure how many Axs are in his range but anything apart from that has to fold if he is anyway good (8's are v unlikely to be in his hand).
              I thought about barreling the river but his slow flop call and fast turn call made me think his hand got stronger somehow, be it pairing or increasing draw outs. Even if my read is off, liek you say he never really has 8x/PP here, but if he has Kx he's probably gone in station mode given the faster turn call and wants to look me up. Hence my decision not to barrel.
              "c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"

              Comment


                #8
                Overbet the river 4250 or check fold.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Played fine I think, if your betting the flop you have to be willing to barrel alot of turns, so I like the turn bet. I also prefer giving up on the river, but as maccer said, if you bet you have to bet big. Can't see it being profitable calling the river, and it's hard to rep a hand that you check raise for value

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Why are you playing this hand from UTG+1 in the second level?

                    Do you not feel that the A and the K make up a large part of buttons flattening pre and the 875 on the turn folds out too small part of his flop calling range to be profitable?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Wp I think, dont get all the hate for opeing 6h7h,weirdos,dont like firing a third barrell on the river, if I really felt like doing something destructive would humour a check raise but like Chub said tough to rep much of a hand, apart from maybe a very nutty one.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Daragh999 View Post
                        Fold pre given its only the 2nd level, as played fold river, he will have some airballs but not enough to justify calling. I am really tempted for us to go for the 3rd barrel and turn our tiny bit of showdown value into a bluff though, not sure how many Axs are in his range but anything apart from that has to fold if he is anyway good (8's are v unlikely to be in his hand).
                        Most likely he has Asxs imo, especially with the read as he tank calls the flop prob deliberating whether to raise or not and turn now he is alot safer but at same time he knows he can still be behind so he calls a little faster (slight foolishly imo as if ur bluffing go right ahead) maybe it's a little tell he doesnt want a big river decision this early.

                        I think folding this hand pre is a complete no, it is the 2nd level and you should be speculating trying to accumulate as much as possible. Great hands to potentially win huge pots with early on, never ever fold suited connectors like this early!!!

                        He can have a few air balls but calling n showing down this hand can have its disadvantages but then again it is a nice pot at this stage, I still go for the fold looks like Asxs, no way he has just an 8 in his hand that would be ridiculous unless its a8 which makes sense. If he is competant like you say I'm sure he is capable to bet rivers like this, I know I would.
                        Last edited by blaaaaaaah; 28-08-11, 20:56.
                        Huh, Math my dear boy is nothing more than the lesbian sister of biology.

                        My Poker Blog http://jason-tompkins.blogspot.com
                        My twitter http://twitter.com/#!/blaaaaaah666

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Fold pre . Don't donk flop. Fold at every other available opportunity. Call now so that you can copperfasten a spewtastic table image and have a better chance of getting back into the game.
                          Turning millions into thousands

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by blaaaaaaah View Post
                            I think folding this hand pre is a complete no, it is the 2nd level and you should be speculating trying to accumulate as much as possible. Great hands to potentially win huge pots with early on, never ever fold suited connectors like this early!!!
                            Without getting into to much detail about my live MTT ranges , I open from MP onwards but UTG+1 in your typical live donkament on a 9/10 handed table you are gonna get called in multiple spots alot in the 2nd level and are OOP. When you connect it will mostly be a draw and barreling vs stations isn't a good idea so your reduced to check/calling and hoping you hit as you have v little fold equity. Otherwise its marginal at best. I think its better to avoid tricky spots early on but i guess its just a personal preference.
                            They will be like WTF how does he always have the top of his range, and they will be saying that when you show up with like nine's - Jimmy Fricke
                            Nine's are the top of my range - Shaun Deeb

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Never mind barreling or trying to bluff oop, just open the sooted connector and if you whiff multiway just let it go. Like I said this hand can have huge potential but because it's early doesn't mean you have to be in same frame of mind of opening and trying to take down pots, it's not worth it at this stage but certainly is worth opening the 67s to potentially win a massive pot to d loss of mesely 250 in chips.
                              Huh, Math my dear boy is nothing more than the lesbian sister of biology.

                              My Poker Blog http://jason-tompkins.blogspot.com
                              My twitter http://twitter.com/#!/blaaaaaah666

                              Comment

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