Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

$109 MTT- 88 after benn reraised all in

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    $109 MTT- 88 after benn reraised all in

    9 handed Level 250-500 60. Stacks i have 9400 and he has just over 10k- villain been at table bout 50 hands, hes been playing 24/15 but obviously small sample, hasnt got out of line and opr have him as a winner over decent sample in mtt. i have been playing tight enough and havent shown down any crap,

    Folded to me in mp and i make it 1375 with 8c8s he pushes from co
    so roughly i need 40pc as its now basically calling 8000 to win 12000

    What range would you assign him here . do you think i have 40pc equity with 88,

    #2
    I'd call here. He's shoving wider than you think even vs your stack.

    44+ and lots of broadways.

    I just shove pre usually.

    Comment


      #3
      yeah a lot of the time i would shove pre,i didnt think hed be pushing with 44 or 55 anyway

      Comment


        #4
        I'd call, you're ahead of his shoving range

        Comment


          #5
          Hes only shoving about 21-22 bigs over your raise so you can put him on any pocket pair over 4s and a lot of paint IMO. Calling always.

          Comment


            #6
            i think i call here when your playing a stack of less than 20bbs you shouldnt raise and then fold to a shove imo...

            Comment


              #7
              calling and pretty happy about it - open shoving is the play though imo

              Comment


                #8
                I call as we are ahead of his range. I wouldnt automatically say shove is what we should do here as u have to take whoevers left to act into consideration loads of factors. If i thought someone was capable of 3bet shoving light id prob min raise and obviously call them off. If the table is very tight id just open shove so we arent left with a tough decision, either way u should have a plan of what u are going to do before u make your play.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by deyrzuited View Post
                  I call as we are ahead of his range. I wouldnt automatically say shove is what we should do here as u have to take whoevers left to act into consideration loads of factors. If i thought someone was capable of 3bet shoving light id prob min raise and obviously call them off. If the table is very tight id just open shove so we arent left with a tough decision, either way u should have a plan of what u are going to do before u make your play.
                  All this essentially.

                  All depends how active players behind are as to what you do initially. Shoving pre isn't wrong but this looses us the ability to ever really have an opponent in a dominated spot as they will call off with something like 77+/AQ+. With slightly less I shove, prefer r/call here though in a $100 with probably aggro opponents
                  "c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"

                  Comment


                    #10
                    i'd usually only be opening <1200, 1150 or 1135/1195 for giggles. were you opening 1375 every hand? snap calling shove with stack, you'll have a decent % of most winning players range in 70/30, 80/20 spots here.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by deyrzuited View Post
                      I call as we are ahead of his range. I wouldnt automatically say shove is what we should do here as u have to take whoevers left to act into consideration loads of factors. If i thought someone was capable of 3bet shoving light id prob min raise and obviously call them off. If the table is very tight id just open shove so we arent left with a tough decision, either way u should have a plan of what u are going to do before u make your play.
                      If the table is playing very tight, i'd probably min raise fold.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        A 19bb shove is a little on the heavy side for me, prefer to min raise and evaluate based on opponent...

                        Calling the shove here fwiw

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by danutpeddler View Post
                          If the table is playing very tight, i'd probably min raise fold.
                          Id nearly go as far as saying if your gonna do this way you'd be better off having K8 than 88, unless theres short stack that we're gonna run 88 against min raise folding as a steal seems bad at 1st glance to me anyway. obv with 88 theres the variation where u get flatted and flop a set but doubt it happens enough

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Laois Hammer View Post
                            Id nearly go as far as saying if your gonna do this way you'd be better off having K8 than 88, unless theres short stack that we're gonna run 88 against min raise folding as a steal seems bad at 1st glance to me anyway. obv with 88 theres the variation where u get flatted and flop a set but doubt it happens enough
                            read back pls, I was responding to deyrzuited's point that he prefers a 19bb shove if the table is very tight which I disagree with.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by danutpeddler View Post
                              If the table is playing very tight, i'd probably min raise fold.
                              It's an option but I think i'd just shove 20bb and under.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by deyrzuited View Post
                                It's an option but I think i'd just shove 20bb and under.
                                But surely if they're so tight, they won't play back so just open a ton, 88, k8, whatever and only call with your monsters.

                                The reason you open shove a ~20 bb stack with 88 is because you want to fold out the hands that you are flipping with which is a huge part of they're reshipping range.

                                Also if they defend by calling you can expect a tough decision often on the flop playing an awkward stack.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by danutpeddler View Post
                                  But surely if they're so tight, they won't play back so just open a ton, 88, k8, whatever and only call with your monsters.

                                  The reason you open shove a ~20 bb stack with 88 is because you want to fold out the hands that you are flipping with which is a huge part of they're reshipping range.

                                  Also if they defend by calling you can expect a tough decision often on the flop playing an awkward stack.
                                  If I have over 20bb I'm going to min raise then fold/call depending on the opponent. I understand your point but I'm just not a big fan of raise/folding with 19bb.

                                  So you expect ak/aq to fold? Not sure what your trying to say there really

                                  Well in my first post I mentioned that as one of my reasons for shoving, to eliminate tough decisions post-flop.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    i really hate open shoving a stack of 19/20 bbs..

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by gillespie101 View Post
                                      i really hate open shoving a stack of 19/20 bbs..
                                      unexploitable, called by worse loads, gives you a donkish image by players that dont know what they are at

                                      whats not to like?

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by deyrzuited View Post
                                        If I have over 20bb I'm going to min raise then fold/call depending on the opponent. I understand your point but I'm just not a big fan of raise/folding with 19bb.

                                        So you expect ak/aq to fold? Not sure what your trying to say there really

                                        Well in my first post I mentioned that as one of my reasons for shoving, to eliminate tough decisions post-flop.
                                        No I expect all non premium broadways that you flip with to fold when I ship.

                                        The question that has arisen in this thread is raise or ship.

                                        You're more inclined to ship if the table is tight.
                                        I'm more inclined to ship if the table is loose.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                          unexploitable, called by worse loads, gives you a donkish image by players that dont know what they are at

                                          whats not to like?
                                          i see where your coming from but just seems like too much to open shove... i prefer a 2/2.5 x raise and snap off a shove!

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by gillespie101 View Post
                                            i see where your coming from but just seems like too much to open shove... i prefer a 2/2.5 x raise and snap off a shove!
                                            If you're going to snap any raise you're far better to just shove yourself, at least that way you have FE on your side.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                              unexploitable, called by worse loads, gives you a donkish image by players that dont know what they are at

                                              whats not to like?
                                              I don\\\'t think you are ever called by worse here when you shove.

                                              What ya doing with your AA, KK or steals here?
                                              What he doing with his 44 vs raise or shove?

                                              Snap call as played.
                                              Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                                unexploitable, called by worse loads, gives you a donkish image by players that dont know what they are at

                                                whats not to like?
                                                yes unexploitable but so if shoving AA pre on the first hand but it doesn't mean it's the most profitable.

                                                By shoving 88 the villain will fold 22 through 77 which he will jam over an open in a good spot for a 3b shove for villain.

                                                This is always a r/c for me at a $100 BI, villain if decent will jam any pair most broadways and some suited cards and some Aces and suited aces that only have the Ace overcard to your 8s. We do fine vs this range

                                                If you open shove it makes playing the hand easier for sure but if the villain is decent his range is alot tighter and will fold all/most pairs smaller than 88.

                                                It's annoying to get reshoved on by like T9s and be in a coinflip but it's still the most profitable way to play the hand imo.

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by UlDuffer View Post
                                                  yes unexploitable but so if shoving AA pre on the first hand but it doesn't mean it's the most profitable.

                                                  By shoving 88 the villain will fold 22 through 77 which he will jam over an open in a good spot for a 3b shove for villain.

                                                  This is always a r/c for me at a $100 BI, villain if decent will jam any pair most broadways and some suited cards and some Aces and suited aces that only have the Ace overcard to your 8s. We do fine vs this range

                                                  If you open shove it makes playing the hand easier for sure but if the villain is decent his range is alot tighter and will fold all/most pairs smaller than 88.

                                                  It's annoying to get reshoved on by like T9s and be in a coinflip but it's still the most profitable way to play the hand imo.
                                                  Any 3bet shover will have to assume he is being called given the openers stack size so i think a lot of people will fold small pairs here rather than shove

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    I have to agree that shoving 19bbs is too much. I also think that the preflop raise is too much i really prefer the min raise works just as well most of the time depending on BB tendencies.

                                                    Sometimes a bet like 1100 will work a lot more than 1000 against some people which i can never figure why

                                                    The reasons for not shoving are (1) as stated earlier you can get played back at my worse, (2) i will still try a steal now and again even with 19bigs but your play might become too obvious if you are shoving good hands and min raising steal hands, and (3) would we be shoving all our premium hands in this spot too if we are losing a lot of value.

                                                    I think anything under 15bbs you can shove everything..
                                                    If it wasn't for variance i'd lose em all.

                                                    http://twitter.com/#!/NiallSmythers

                                                    Comment

                                                    Working...
                                                    X