Monotone Flops

[Ramiriquez]

Having a day where all flops seem to be monotone (or maybe just the ones sticking in my mind). I've tried various approaches and am struggling to find optimal plays in certain situations. Here's my most recent example:

Quite early in a low buy in MTT on stars. Table as a whole has been VERY active and most preflop raises have been called in several positions hence my making it 300.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 2.2 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

MP1 (t6290)
MP2 (t3615)
MP3 (t2480)
Hero (CO) (t5365)
Button (t975)
SB (t4115)
BB (t11275)
UTG (t4075)
UTG+1 (t3100)

Hero's M: 71.53

Preflop: Hero is CO with K, A
UTG calls t50, 1 fold, MP1 calls t50, 2 folds, Hero bets t300, 3 folds, UTG calls t250, MP1 calls t250

Flop: (t975) K, 2, Q (3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets t100

UTG has been very loose and MP1 has just joined table. I assume I'm raising here? How much if so?

[CheckRaise]

his bet is basically a check. if he flopped a small flush he would bet closer to pot so as not to let someone outdraw him for free and to get value from worse made hands of which there should be at least one decent hand considering the preflop action.


raise to about the size of the pot as this will allow you to shove any non heart turn.

if he 3bet shoves call imo as he will more likely be flushing as i cant see a made flush betting 100 or a better hand than yours (not a flush) 3 bet shoving.

if he flats you and a heart hits the turn don't put another chip into the pot.

[Emmet]

well firstly, I'd treat that bet as a check.

Then I would decide what kind of value I can have here, we're not getting more than two streets from our hand unless we runner runner a full house.

I like a raise to ~ 600, because that's what I would've bet had he not donked.

We're in a world of hurt if we get 3bet though. At this stage in a tournie, I don't mind making a fold here if we get 3bet. We are not bluff raising here though, we are value raising.

If UTG has any involvement after this, I'm c/f to SD, hoping nobody makes another bet.
If we get a call here in two spots, I'm C/F to any action from UTG regardless of turn.
I think we're betting here to get a call from a high heart with a Queen, 9h9x and other hands like this.

Heart turn means we don't put any more money in the pot.
Non heart turn is a b/f again.
River is checked behind.

People play very straightforwardly on monotone flops in my experience.

[Caf]

I make it 250 pre and flat the flop to control the pot size in position.

[Ramiriquez]

I make it 250 pre and flat the flop to control the pot size in position.

250/300, does it make much of a difference? Not being smart, genuine question

[Emmet]

I make it 250 pre and flat the flop to control the pot size in position.

flatting allows the UTG to come along with everything in his range, he's not folding 22 if we flat there, and we are lost on most turns.

Min/2xmin bets should be treated as checks imo.

Would you check behind here?

[Caf]

250/300, does it make much of a difference? Not being smart, genuine question

I wouldn't take it as being smart, don't worry, so don't take my reply the wrong way either. It will make a difference if the hand plays out to the river multi-way. Pot will be 725 on flop. Say we want to cbet 400 on some boards, and we get two callers. Turn the pot is 1925. With the pot at 975 we should cbet 500 and with two callers to the turn the pot 2475. See any difference in the pots(550)? turn bets are 1k and 1.4k roughly. If we are c/r 5 times on 5 turns and have to fold(even though we should prob check back turn cards) we have saved ourselves 5x(50+100+400) over 5 hands in the one game. You can imagine if you play 2k mtts how many chips you are saving yourself in the long run. We can get away from a hand cheaper.

As a general rule, I make open a pot 3x, if there is one limper then 4x, 2 limpers 5x and so on. I also add one BB if I'm playing the hand oop(in SB or BB), I know a lot of people wouldn't do this but my range is fairly tight for raising from these two seats. Not everyone plays the same but I feel this is good strategy and I'm sure there would be some agreeing and some disagreeing.

flatting allows the UTG to come along with everything in his range, he's not folding 22 if we flat there, and we are lost on most turns.

Min/2xmin bets should be treated as checks imo.

Would you check behind here?

Bolded bit is my reasoning tbh. We are not going to scare many off with a rr here, especially at the stakes involved(I mean no offence by talking about the stakes as you know). There is also the chance we are behind. I'm happy to play the hand out because all we have is one pair. Fair enough if we price in other players but I think most players will call the rr meaning it does nothing but inflate the pot and as you say we are lost on most turns.

I don't treat them as checks, they are just donk bets imo. If they donk out weak on the turn sometimes I rr but we are folding to a 3bet at all stages of this hand, I would like to have a read to rr anywhere here tbh. Weak players regularly bet out weak on flop and turn and pot river after flopping a big hand.

It would be read dependent whether I check back or not but almost never am. If they ship over the cbet I fold without a read that tells me otherwise.

[Angry-Ball]

250/300, does it make much of a difference? Not being smart, genuine question

yes
you have less chips involved if you have to fold
250 does the exact same thing as 300
the pot is smaller on the flop and therefore your cbet is smaller as a result, again you have less chips wasted/invested if you have to fold.

[Ramiriquez]

Fwiw here, I flatted the 100 as did UTG.

MP checked a blank turn and I led for 800. UTG folded and MP called.

River blanked again and MP c/c my bet of 1200 and showed Q10o no h.

[AndyFatBastard]

Fwiw here, I flatted the 100 as did UTG.

MP checked a blank turn and I led for 800. UTG folded and MP called.

River blanked again and MP c/c my bet of 1200 and showed Q10o no h.

This is fine. A bigger river bet would be better, but you certainly got worse to call, even if that's results oriented.