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**Emmet** · 02-07-12, 18:52

Don't even like the cbet given reads.

Think it may read exceptionally weakly, but I'm gonna c/f the flop here a lot. Nothing he calls the flop bet with is folding the turn, and nothing that he calls the flop bet with is behind us.

Just can't see what he calls pre with that we're happy to play v to be honest. Weak maybe, but I think we've opened pre a bit wider in the knowledge that we aren't getting played back against a lot. As a result, alarm bells go for me once we see a call.

Haven't played in quite some time, but think that it's just a bad spot, that we probably need to go insa-shutdown once called pre.

**alanmc101** · 03-07-12, 05:06

Originally posted by Emmet View Post

Don't even like the cbet given reads.

Think it may read exceptionally weakly, but I'm gonna c/f the flop here a lot. Nothing he calls the flop bet with is folding the turn, and nothing that he calls the flop bet with is behind us.

Just can't see what he calls pre with that we're happy to play v to be honest. Weak maybe, but I think we've opened pre a bit wider in the knowledge that we aren't getting played back against a lot. As a result, alarm bells go for me once we see a call.

Haven't played in quite some time, but think that it's just a bad spot, that we probably need to go insa-shutdown once called pre.

lol @ all of this dude! no disrespect but ops right that he has best hand here otf most of the time, i fire the c bet too here and then decide once called. Depends on the player, u can so easilt be getting floated here, u havent been 3 bet pre so if villain goes bet shove i'd call it off vs a lot of ppl.

**Emmet** · 03-07-12, 07:05

Originally posted by alanmc101 View Post

lol @ all of this dude! no disrespect but ops right that he has best hand here otf most of the time, i fire the c bet too here and then decide once called. Depends on the player, u can so easilt be getting floated here, u havent been 3 bet pre so if villain goes bet shove i'd call it off vs a lot of ppl.

no worries, I'm not going to take offence at all. Just can't see what we're trying to do with another bet.

What hands do we put him on for calling pre? We're oop vs him with 2 bets left in our stack, are we not opening pre almost as a bluff? We're not too happy getting called and flopping and Ace and having a cbet called imo.

Is there enough play in stacks for the abc player that's made a tight fold to be floating?

I just think it's a spot where we've flopped pretty dangerously, in that we've gotten some of the board, but I don't think we've a strong enough hand to get value anywhere, so are we turning our hand into a bluff? If we think we have the best hand here a lot, surely we should let him take the reigns as he's not going to call call with a worse pair or a bare Ace?

**Laois Hammer** · 03-07-12, 08:38

Definately cbetting anyway hes not shown us a reason not too.

Personally id be min raising, any reason you dont? (i mean in general because obv youve been using this not jus changing here), even with the pot as it is on flop you can bet 39k and it will have the same effect.

Not sure but think with better sizing you could of squeezed out a 2nd barrell for 56k or so. Id be more inclined to think these types of guys arent floating the flop to outplay you so dont think he has KQ/QJ that much so then its down to how you feel about barreling the Q, not saying i would/wouldnt like alot of things it depends.

I think look at your sizing tho you can manipulate an extra bet here and there
40k pre
39k flop means he'd have 270 and pots 190 rather than him 220 pot 230, small adjustment but major difference.
56k barrel seems alright with smaller sizing.

**Winning!** · 03-07-12, 11:01

Having seen villain fold to a cbet on J62r bvb I highly doubt he floats here with overs or anything like it. Thus turn is a great card for us to barrel since it's essentially a brick to his range of mostly mid-strength hands but connects with a decent chunk of our range. With board getting wetter he likely gets slowplayed sets/overpairs in OTT so 86k/f, shove any river.

**peterswellman** · 03-07-12, 13:02

Originally posted by Laois Hammer View Post

Definately cbetting anyway hes not shown us a reason not too.

Personally id be min raising, any reason you dont? (i mean in general because obv youve been using this not jus changing here), even with the pot as it is on flop you can bet 39k and it will have the same effect.

Not sure but think with better sizing you could of squeezed out a 2nd barrell for 56k or so. Id be more inclined to think these types of guys arent floating the flop to outplay you so dont think he has KQ/QJ that much so then its down to how you feel about barreling the Q, not saying i would/wouldnt like alot of things it depends.

I think look at your sizing tho you can manipulate an extra bet here and there
40k pre
39k flop means he'd have 270 and pots 190 rather than him 220 pot 230, small adjustment but major difference.
56k barrel seems alright with smaller sizing.

I generally make it 2.2x until about 2/3 tables to go and then it will be min-raising my entire opening range. I do feel at times that even as little as a few k thrown onto a raise will mean less people will flat my opens rather than the simple minraise. I do open quite a bit though so maybe it would be better to just min. Do you min the entire tournament(once the antes kick in) or just as you go further?

I do agree sizing could do with some work. Tbh, I guess I went a little bigger on my flop bet because I was trying to avoid getting floated and a huge bunch of cards on the turn make things awkward for me. Thinking back though with the way I played it 42k would seem fine and make the pot much easier to play.

Originally posted by Winning! View Post

Having seen villain fold to a cbet on J62r bvb I highly doubt he floats here with overs or anything like it. Thus turn is a great card for us to barrel since it's essentially a brick to his range of mostly mid-strength hands but connects with a decent chunk of our range. With board getting wetter he likely gets slowplayed sets/overpairs in OTT so 86k/f, shove any river.

Tbh, I don't think I mentioned it above but I started to get the feeling that this guy was maybe a little frustrated with me. I had a feeling he wasn't going to just fold the flop when I bet this time given our history. Tbh, I don't think there is very many pairs in his range because these days almost everyone just jams them pre this shallow given positions but I guess I didn't have a precise read on that either.

**Hectorjelly** · 03-07-12, 14:48

Bet turn, shove river.

**Emmet** · 03-07-12, 14:54

Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post

Bet turn, shove river.

rarely spot a post from you that I can't decipher, but am stumped by this tbh.

What range are we doing this;

for value vs ?? (expecting a call)
as a bluff vs ?? (expecting a fold)
for "protection"/value vs ?? (expecting a call - probably in first group really)

And what kind of hands do we expect villain to hold here a lot? Perhaps my I've become weak-tight from time out, but I am struggling to hand him cards here that we want to bet against.

**Laois Hammer** · 03-07-12, 14:57

Originally posted by peterswellman View Post

I generally make it 2.2x until about 2/3 tables to go and then it will be min-raising my entire opening range. I do feel at times that even as little as a few k thrown onto a raise will mean less people will flat my opens rather than the simple minraise. I do open quite a bit though so maybe it would be better to just min. Do you min the entire tournament(once the antes kick in) or just as you go further?

I do agree sizing could do with some work. Tbh, I guess I went a little bigger on my flop bet because I was trying to avoid getting floated and a huge bunch of cards on the turn make things awkward for me. Thinking back though with the way I played it 42k would seem fine and make the pot much easier to play.

not religiously when the antes kick in but defo long before this blind level. its not a major thing just thought id throw it out there how the pot would have shaped up different

**Hectorjelly** · 03-07-12, 16:23

Originally posted by Emmet View Post

rarely spot a post from you that I can't decipher, but am stumped by this tbh.

What range are we doing this;

for value vs ?? (expecting a call)
as a bluff vs ?? (expecting a fold)
for "protection"/value vs ?? (expecting a call - probably in first group really)

And what kind of hands do we expect villain to hold here a lot? Perhaps my I've become weak-tight from time out, but I am struggling to hand him cards here that we want to bet against.

He can't have a queen, we can. The queen is really a great card because he can't have picked up any more equity, we have the ace of diamonds so he can't have a flush draw (even if that was unlikely anyway). No pairs have turned gutters or anything like that.

Once you bet the flop I think you have to keep barrelling on a good run out , checking back bad cards. I would often just check this flop back though.

It's one of those spots where we might have the best hand, and if we don't there's a good chance we get the best hand to fold anyway. 6 on the river would be decent too.

Villain is tight and clearly capable of folding, so i'd be looking to abuse that.

**Laois Hammer** · 03-07-12, 17:09

Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post

Once you bet the flop I think you have to keep barrelling on a good run out , checking back bad cards. I would often just check this flop back though.

we're OOP, villain is button. still bet/bet/shove for you?

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