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    What happens here.

    On a live PLO table and this happens .

    UTG pots and gets calls from utg+1 and the button. Flop is run and it goes pot call call , turn is dealt and utg pots again and utg+1 calls and is covered allready so is all in , so the action is on the button who tanks for a few mins .

    While he is thinking the other 2 start talking about their hands to each other and and utg+1 shows his hand to utg . The button see's this and calls for a ruling .

    What is the official ruling and/or what do you think should happen??

    #2
    What has the button to gain by calling for a ruling?

    Players shouldn't show each other their cards while a hand is in progress - another of my pet hates - but once it has happened it's not easy to make it unhappen!

    If you are the button then just tell the offending players that you would appreciate it if they didn't do this in future hands? And if it happens again maybe you could ask the dealer to call a bit of order here and run his table properly.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Morihei View Post
      What has the button to gain by calling for a ruling?
      Players shouldn't show each other their cards while a hand is in progress - another of my pet hates - but once it has happened it's not easy to make it unhappen!

      If you are the button then just tell the offending players that you would appreciate it if they didn't do this in future hands? And if it happens again maybe you could ask the dealer to call a bit of order here and run his table properly.
      The button has a decision to make for all his chips and he has more than utg+1 ,so if he pushes then utg has info that he shouldnt have to make his decision easier

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by DAMO72 View Post
        On a live PLO table and this happens .

        UTG pots and gets calls from utg+1 and the button. Flop is run and it goes pot call call , turn is dealt and utg pots again and utg+1 calls and is covered allready so is all in , so the action is on the button who tanks for a few mins .

        While he is thinking the other 2 start talking about their hands to each other and and utg+1 shows his hand to utg . The button see's this and calls for a ruling .

        What is the official ruling and/or what do you think should happen??
        Wow this is defo a little tricky, technically if you show your hand to somebody else while there is still action pending afaik your hand could be killed.

        It is defo bad etiquette to do this in the middle of the hand if it was me i would be furious at the other guy because he could be given off something to the other guy still to call which could make things easier for him.

        There defo should be a warning handed out to the players for doing it, i am genuinely stumped as to what would/should happen, i think that the players would get away with it and hands are just finished out.
        "you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)

        Comment


          #5
          by the book utg +1 hand is dead

          a common sense approach would prob see UTG + 1 take back his last bet and the hand checked down with UTG +1 given a stern warning

          Comment


            #6
            I was wondering when you were going to post it Damo....I knew it was coming!

            Comment


              #7
              It's collusion and both hands should be dead.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by PokerNit View Post
                I was wondering when you were going to post it Damo....I knew it was coming!
                Who dat ??
                Move along now , nothin to see here

                Comment


                  #9
                  Put it this way, I still owe ya a score!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by PokerNit View Post
                    Put it this way, I still owe ya a score!
                    Adress please , im on me way .

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by curleywurley View Post
                      It's collusion and both hands should be dead.
                      Is that what the rule book states?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by PokerNit View Post
                        Is that what the rule book states?
                        Dunno, check in Roberts Rules.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Theres laods of this messing going on in most cardrooms people showing cards as they fold etc zzzzzzz who gives a fock what u have muck or call.
                          Dealers are to slow to stop this and jusp down your throat thenw hen u try to have a hand shandy under the table need to get there priorities right.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            no hand is dead. if utg+1 had any chips behind he could call a bet but not bet or raise himself. his hand has to be shown to the table now before button makes his decision. show one show all. what happens to him after the hand is over depends on whether he was trying to show his cards on the quiet or if he thought he was heads up.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I didn't know what the rule was but have a good idea now....

                              I found this on the Internet....In cash-games the general rule is that the hand is still alive even if the hole cards are exposed in the middle of a hand. One of the most cited set of poker rules available is "Robert's Rules of Poker" created by poker expert Bob Ciaffone. Rule 12 in the General Poker Rules chapter states that "A card that is flashed by a player will play." Similar rules are found in other poker rules collections. "

                              Originally posted by TheJoker View Post
                              his hand has to be shown to the table now before button makes his decision. show one show all.
                              I believe the above to be correct also...

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Damo call you clarify if both players are all in and just waiting on the last player to make his decision?
                                "you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  UTG pots the turn, UTG+1 calls (is all in), button still to act

                                  UTG has everyone well covered

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by PokerNit View Post
                                    UTG pots the turn, UTG+1 calls (is all in), button still to act

                                    UTG has everyone well covered
                                    If the button calls is he all in or is there money still left to play for if he just flats? UTG + 1 is way out of line!
                                    "you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      The OP is slightly inaccurate...

                                      UTG pots and gets calls from UTG+1 and the button. Flop is run and it goes pot, call, call. Turn is dealt and UTG pots again and UTG+1 calls and is covered allready so is all in , so the action is on the button who tanks for a few mins .

                                      While he is thinking the other 2 start talking about their hands to each other, UTG flashes his hand to UTG+1 stating he has him beat having turned the nut straight, UTG+1 flashes his hand to UTG (showing a smaller straight with a flush draw). The button only sees UTG+1 flashing his hand and calls for a ruling.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by PokerNit View Post
                                        The OP is slightly inaccurate...

                                        UTG pots and gets calls from UTG+1 and the button. Flop is run and it goes pot, call, call. Turn is dealt and UTG pots again and UTG+1 calls and is covered allready so is all in , so the action is on the button who tanks for a few mins .

                                        While he is thinking the other 2 start talking about their hands to each other, UTG flashes his hand to UTG+1 stating he has him beat having turned the nut straight, UTG+1 flashes his hand to UTG (showing a smaller straight with a flush draw). The button only sees UTG+1 flashing his hand and calls for a ruling.
                                        Yeah ok i get that but if there is still money left to play for what they have done is totally fucking retarded. So by utg +1 flashing his cards to utg and button still left to play is there money left to play for as this will benefit utg as he has seen another players hand?
                                        "you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          If button calls he is effectively all in also

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by PokerNit View Post
                                            If button calls he is effectively all in also
                                            I guess when you say effectively there is still money left behind? These points really do make alot of difference.

                                            If say the 2 lads are all in and showing their hands to each other its still pretty bad with action pending its just straight out of line and then should be severely warned about that.
                                            "you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Agreed on the warning

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by PokerNit View Post
                                                Agreed on the warning
                                                Some people will just never learn hopefully from this they will
                                                "you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  The dealer made a ruling - hand was still in play but warned the player. Button was not happy with this ruling and insisted that a TD made the ruling. TD ruled that the players (UTG+1) hand was dead. Button got the ruling he wanted and made the call !!

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    I'm not killing either UTG or UTG+1 hands here.

                                                    Assuming both UTG and Button have cash behind... Action is on the button. If he calls then UTG+1 hand must be tabled so both UTG and Button both have the same information for the rest of the hand.

                                                    I wouldn't be tabling UTG+1 hand before the call on the turn as UTG made his bet without knowing UTG+1 cards.

                                                    As for the two lads who showed their cards. If it was a tournie they would get a min 1 round time penalty, this is not effective in a cash game. That said I would make if very clear to both players that if they did it again that they'd be asked to leave the game and wouldn't be welcomed back.
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                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      So what would happen in the event that the button had a substantial amount left and wanted to raise here . UTG has a hell of an advantage with the info he has .
                                                      BTW this is a cash table with a lot of money on the line.
                                                      I was at the table but not involved in the hand

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by JP Poker View Post
                                                        I'm not killing either UTG or UTG+1 hands here.

                                                        Assuming both UTG and Button have cash behind... Action is on the button. If he calls then UTG+1 hand must be tabled so both UTG and Button both have the same information for the rest of the hand.

                                                        I wouldn't be tabling UTG+1 hand before the call on the turn as UTG made his bet without knowing UTG+1 cards.

                                                        As for the two lads who showed their cards. If it was a tournie they would get a min 1 round time penalty, this is not effective in a cash game. That said I would make if very clear to both players that if they did it again that they'd be asked to leave the game and wouldn't be welcomed back.
                                                        i think both utg and button were all in,the reason he called for a ruling was because the guy who say the cards was the only one left to act against 2 all ins and now he knew what 1 of the all ins had; but the ruling that was given was based on the information that utg +1 said he had shown his cards to him but but he swore blind he handnt seen them

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by DAMO72 View Post
                                                          On a live PLO table and this happens .

                                                          UTG pots and gets calls from utg+1 and the button. Flop is run and it goes pot call call , turn is dealt and utg pots again and utg+1 calls and is covered allready so is all in , so the action is on the button who tanks for a few mins .

                                                          While he is thinking the other 2 start talking about their hands to each other and and utg+1 shows his hand to utg . The button see's this and calls for a ruling .

                                                          What is the official ruling and/or what do you think should happen??
                                                          UTG+1 hand is exposed. Player given warning.
                                                          May you live in interesting times!

                                                          Comment


                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by DAMO72 View Post
                                                            So what would happen in the event that the button had a substantial amount left and wanted to raise here . UTG has a hell of an advantage with the info he has .
                                                            BTW this is a cash table with a lot of money on the line.
                                                            I was at the table but not involved in the hand
                                                            If the button wanted to raise he can. But he still doesn't get to see UTG+1 cards before doing so.

                                                            If UTG folds he's heads up with UTG+1 and see his cards.
                                                            If UTG calls he gets to see UTG+1 cards before action on the river takes place.
                                                            If UTG raises he gets to see UTG+1 cards before he make his decision
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                                                            Comment


                                                              #31
                                                              At what point or how many times does this have to happen for it to be called collusion.

                                                              UTG has a big stack , and the btn still has enough chips that if he shoves then utg has a tough decision to make with no info , but with the info he has from +1 showing him his cards then he can make an easy call or fold .

                                                              Now i was slightly wrong in the 1st post or rather i didnt mention that both players had shown their cards to each other . But Pokernit has confirmed that is infact what happened .

                                                              In my eyes this is nothing but collusion , wether intentional or unintentional and should be dealt with as such.

                                                              1. IMO both hands should be killed.
                                                              2. A minimum bet be removed from both players and return the rest of their bets.
                                                              3. Award the pot to the last live player in the hand , ie: the btn in this instance.

                                                              I believe if this was the action taken then it will surely stamp out people showing cards to each other .
                                                              What good is giving a warning when the offender is raking in someone,s hard earned thru a form of cheating .
                                                              Last edited by DAMO72; 24-08-10, 13:06.

                                                              Comment


                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by DAMO72 View Post
                                                                At what point or how many times does this have to happen for it to be called collusion.

                                                                UTG has a big stack , and the btn still has enough chips that if he shoves then utg has a tough decision to make with no info , but with the info he has from +1 showing him his cards then he can make an easy call or fold .

                                                                Now i was slightly wrong in the 1st post or rather i didnt mention that both players had shown their cards to each other . But Pokernit has confirmed that is infact what happened .

                                                                In my eyes this is nothing but collusion , wether intentional or unintentional and should be dealt with as such.

                                                                1. IMO both hands should be killed.
                                                                2. A minimum bet be removed from both players and return the rest of their bets.
                                                                3. Award the pot to the last live player in the hand , ie: the btn in this instance.
                                                                yeh but td was in a tough spot because although utg +1 admitted showing his cards,the other guy said he didnt see them (well thats what he said at the time)

                                                                Comment


                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by DAMO72 View Post
                                                                  At what point or how many times does this have to happen for it to be called collusion.

                                                                  UTG has a big stack , and the btn still has enough chips that if he shoves then utg has a tough decision to make with no info , but with the info he has from +1 showing him his cards then he can make an easy call or fold .

                                                                  Now i was slightly wrong in the 1st post or rather i didnt mention that both players had shown their cards to each other . But Pokernit has confirmed that is infact what happened .

                                                                  In my eyes this is nothing but collusion , wether intentional or unintentional and should be dealt with as such.

                                                                  1. IMO both hands should be killed.
                                                                  2. A minimum bet be removed from both players and return the rest of their bets.
                                                                  3. Award the pot to the last live player in the hand , ie: the btn in this instance.
                                                                  So would kill both players hands if UTG's bet had the Button covered and so no more action?
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                                                                  Comment


                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by JP Poker View Post
                                                                    So would kill both players hands if UTG's bet had the Button covered and so no more action?
                                                                    I can see where your going with this and i understand what your point is .
                                                                    Its the very same if the btn just calls then he gets to see +1's hand also before any more action takes place. But that doesn't make it all ok now does it .

                                                                    If the btn wanted to raise , why shouldn't he get to see +1's hand before he does.

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by DAMO72 View Post
                                                                      I can see where your going with this and i understand what your point is .
                                                                      Its the very same if the btn just calls then he gets to see +1's hand also before any more action takes place. But that doesn't make it all ok now does it .

                                                                      If the btn wanted to raise , why shouldn't he get to see +1's hand before he does.
                                                                      I never said it was ok for any player to show their cards and i would give a penalty for showing cards. That said UTG's bet was made before he seen UTG+1 cards so it didn't effect his decision.

                                                                      If the button wanted to raise in this situation he can do so but without the knowing UTG+1 cards. If UTG was to reraise the button I would allow the button to see UTG+1 cards before making his call.
                                                                      Last edited by JP Poker; 24-08-10, 15:22.
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                                                                      Comment


                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by DAMO72 View Post
                                                                        What good is giving a warning when the offender is raking in someone,s hard earned thru a form of cheating .
                                                                        It was UTG+1's "hard earned" that was being raked in through an incorrect ruling by the TD. The button was acting a little disgracefully imo not accepting the original ruling and aggressively badgering the TD into making the ruling that he did !

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by JP Poker View Post
                                                                          I never said it was ok for any player to show their cards and i would give a penalty for showing cards. That said UTG's bet was made before he seen UTG+1 cards so it didn't effect his decision.

                                                                          If the button wanted to raise in this situation he can do so but without the knowing UTG+1 cards. If UTG was to reraise the button I would allow the button to see UTG+1 cards before making his call.
                                                                          Sorry i didn't mean to imply that you would think that it was ok , my appologies.

                                                                          Why would you give UTG the option to call a raise or allow him to re-raise the btn having the knowledge he does of both hands by way of collusion.
                                                                          Surely this is totally unfair to the btn who has done nothing wrong.

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by PokerNit View Post
                                                                            It was UTG+1's "hard earned" that was being raked in through an incorrect ruling by the TD. The button was acting a little disgracefully imo not accepting the original ruling and aggressively badgering the TD into making the ruling that he did !
                                                                            I totally agree that it was a wrong ruling. He should have manned up and killed both hands .

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              #39
                                                                              I assume it was a pretty big pot? To kill the hands is crazy i could see it done but jesus i would be furious with somebody scooping a pot that they were probably behind in.

                                                                              Where did said hand take place?
                                                                              "you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                #40
                                                                                Originally posted by DAMO72 View Post
                                                                                2. A minimum bet be removed from both players and return the rest of their bets.
                                                                                Unsure what you mean here Damo? Are you saying the button should win 2 big blinds?

                                                                                Super thread-

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by DAMO72 View Post
                                                                                  Why would you give UTG the option to call a raise or allow him to re-raise the btn having the knowledge he does of both hands by way of collusion.
                                                                                  Surely this is totally unfair to the btn who has done nothing wrong.
                                                                                  I think this ^^ is spot on.
                                                                                  With reference to killing both hands, I'm not sure that is necessary for first time offences.

                                                                                  Floor Manager should-
                                                                                  1, Make both colluding players turn their hands face up immediately.
                                                                                  2, The 2 players involved in the collusion should forfeit any betting or raising options for the remainder of the hand.
                                                                                  3, Warn both colluding players that if a similar situation arises again, they will be escorted from the premises immediately, having forfeited any interest in the pot where the collusion took place.

                                                                                  This would give the btn all the info he needs to make a fair enough decision, with the best hand still winning a hand of poker. It also takes a hard enough line with the offenders for them not to repeat the trick and keep them in the game.
                                                                                  Watch them carefully in the future etc.

                                                                                  Tbh though, I'n not sure would killing both hands be a lot easier and much less messy. Perceived intent and the history of the behaviour of the players in question is massive in any Floor Man's decision here.
                                                                                  Last edited by curleywurley; 24-08-10, 20:07.

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by curleywurley View Post
                                                                                    Unsure what you mean here Damo? Are you saying the button should win 2 big blinds?

                                                                                    Super thread-
                                                                                    No , the btn should be awarded the pot up till that point .

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by DAMO72 View Post
                                                                                      No , the btn should be awarded the pot up till that point .
                                                                                      damo im fairly sure every1 was all in except the player who was shown the hand

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        surely, as utg+1 is all-in no matter what, his hand cannot be killed, cash game or tournament should make no difference.

                                                                                        If button raises, utg's hand is dead as he has seen the other guys hand?

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Originally posted by aubreym View Post
                                                                                          If button raises, utg's hand is dead as he has seen the other guys hand?
                                                                                          You should (almost) never kill a hand and certainly not in this situation.

                                                                                          What happens here is easy.

                                                                                          Button makes his/her action as if the hand had not been seen by UTG.

                                                                                          After Buttons action UTG+1's cards are exposed for the rest of the hand so all players have equal knowledge.

                                                                                          Players are warned to keep their cards to themselves until they need to be tabled at showdown. Penalties as deemed necessary by the floor.
                                                                                          May you live in interesting times!

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            Originally posted by bp_me View Post
                                                                                            You should (almost) never kill a hand
                                                                                            Agree. . . Collusion is one of the few times you will ever kill a hand.
                                                                                            Last edited by curleywurley; 25-08-10, 16:13.

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              Originally posted by curleywurley View Post
                                                                                              Agree. . . Collusion is one of the few times you will ever kill a hand.
                                                                                              To be fair I don't really think this a strong case collusion here. The details of the hand seem to vary... But it appears that UTG's bet on the turn covered both UTG+1 and the button.

                                                                                              After the UTG+1 called (and was all-in) UTG showed him his hand the nut straight. This is not collusion (it's is however an ethical violation).

                                                                                              Again UTG+1 should also not show his card (ethical violation) but if UTG's bet had the button covered he probably didn't see any harm in showing the hand as their was no more action back to UTG.
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                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                Originally posted by DAMO72 View Post
                                                                                                Sorry i didn't mean to imply that you would think that it was ok , my appologies.

                                                                                                Why would you give UTG the option to call a raise or allow him to re-raise the btn having the knowledge he does of both hands by way of collusion.
                                                                                                Surely this is totally unfair to the btn who has done nothing wrong.
                                                                                                Your totally right, having thought about it I probably wouldn't allow UTG to re raise on this street (as he has more info than the button). I would however let him call a bet if the button was to bet on this street.
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                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  I was utg

                                                                                                  button and me were very drunk

                                                                                                  i floped nut straight

                                                                                                  utg+1 showed me his hand( still dont know what it was)

                                                                                                  i pot the flop, if i was sober i would prob know what this guy had lol
                                                                                                  http://paullucey.blogspot.com/

                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    Originally posted by JP Poker View Post
                                                                                                    To be fair I don't really think this a strong case of collusion here.
                                                                                                    Agreed, thanks for the clarification.
                                                                                                    So, is it fair enough just to turn the 2 boys cards face up on the turn, and say nothing more about the situation?
                                                                                                    Sounds like a fun game. . .

                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                      #51
                                                                                                      Its not collusion, and no one is saying utg should have all the info to himself.
                                                                                                      My opinion is that the button still has all options opened to him. He can fold, he can call, or he can raise.
                                                                                                      If he folds, then utg and utg+1 play out the pot, and both recieve warnings.
                                                                                                      If he calls and has money behind, then utg+1's hand is tabled so that both players have the same info.
                                                                                                      If he raises, then utg gets to make his decision.

                                                                                                      Utg and utg+1 should get warnings after the hand as to their future conduct.

                                                                                                      From what pokernit and liz are saying, the pot bet by utg is virtually, to all intent and purposes, putting the button all-in here too. If thats the case, then its a clear case of angleshooting from the button. If he's virtually all in by calling the bet, then the showing of cards does not affect his decision in any way. (thats not to say that its ok to show, like I said, they should both get warnings), but from reading this thread, buttons only motive was to fold out one of the hands which he succeeded in doing.

                                                                                                      From what I've read here, it looks like a poor ruling.


                                                                                                      Connie

                                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                                        #52
                                                                                                        Originally posted by connie147 View Post
                                                                                                        If thats the case, then its a clear case of angleshooting from the button.
                                                                                                        This is very accurate imo

                                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                                          #53
                                                                                                          Originally posted by connie147 View Post
                                                                                                          From what pokernit and liz are saying, the pot bet by utg is virtually, to all intent and purposes, putting the button all-in here too. If thats the case, then its a clear case of angleshooting from the button. If he's virtually all in by calling the bet, then the showing of cards does not affect his decision in any way. (thats not to say that its ok to show, like I said, they should both get warnings), but from reading this thread, buttons only motive was to fold out one of the hands which he succeeded in doing.

                                                                                                          From what I've read here, it looks like a poor ruling.


                                                                                                          Connie
                                                                                                          Np

                                                                                                          If there is money behind for river bets, the situation changes though doesn't it?
                                                                                                          UTG and UTG+1 get their cards turned and all betting and raising options denied. The button has all options, and keeps his cards hidden, right?

                                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                                            #54
                                                                                                            Originally posted by curleywurley View Post
                                                                                                            Np

                                                                                                            If there is money behind for river bets, the situation changes though doesn't it?
                                                                                                            UTG and UTG+1 get their cards turned and all betting and raising options denied. The button has all options, and keeps his cards hidden, right?

                                                                                                            If there is money behind for river bets,(i presume at this stage that button flat called as well), utg+1's hand is tabled to give the button the same info that utg has. Now utg and the button are playing the hand from the same position information wise. I see no reason to turn up utg's hand and give the button information. Hand should play out as normal from there, with utg and utg+1 being warned about their conduct after the hand.

                                                                                                            Why would you want to turn utg's hand face up?

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                                                                                                              #55
                                                                                                              Originally posted by connie147 View Post

                                                                                                              Why would you want to turn utg's hand face up?
                                                                                                              To invoke show 1 show all.
                                                                                                              Having thought about it though, it seems a little unfair to utg to table the other hand as well.

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                                                                                                                #56
                                                                                                                Maybe I've misunderstood, but what did UTG do wrong? He was shown UTG+1s hand, that is hardly his fault though? Surely no reason for his hand to be revealed?

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                                                                                                                  #57
                                                                                                                  Originally posted by NewApproach View Post
                                                                                                                  Maybe I've misunderstood, but what did UTG do wrong? He was shown UTG+1s hand, that is hardly his fault though? Surely no reason for his hand to be revealed?
                                                                                                                  They both showed each other their hands . And despite unclear reports ,the button had enough chips behind to give utg a bit of a decision if he pushed .
                                                                                                                  The only thing i would say is you cant kill one hand and not the other.
                                                                                                                  It's both or none .

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                                                                                                                    #58
                                                                                                                    I think we have established at this stage that no hands should have been killed, it was an incorrect ruling by the TD

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                                                                                                                      #59
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by curleywurley View Post
                                                                                                                      To invoke show 1 show all.
                                                                                                                      Having thought about it though, it seems a little unfair to utg to table the other hand as well.
                                                                                                                      Yes the button has the right to see UTG's hand if he wishes but not until all betting is finished
                                                                                                                      €10,000 GTD New Monthly Tournament
                                                                                                                      Village Green Card Club, Last Thursday of the Month, €270 Freezeout
                                                                                                                      €1,000,000 GTD - Irish Open
                                                                                                                      CityWest Hotel, 6th-13th April

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                                                                                                                        #60
                                                                                                                        Originally posted by curleywurley View Post
                                                                                                                        To invoke show 1 show all.
                                                                                                                        Having thought about it though, it seems a little unfair to utg to table the other hand as well.
                                                                                                                        Yes the button has the right to see UTG's hand if he wishes but not until all betting is finished
                                                                                                                        €10,000 GTD New Monthly Tournament
                                                                                                                        Village Green Card Club, Last Thursday of the Month, €270 Freezeout
                                                                                                                        €1,000,000 GTD - Irish Open
                                                                                                                        CityWest Hotel, 6th-13th April

                                                                                                                        Comment

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