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    #61
    Originally posted by Winning! View Post
    I for one have learned a lot, and feel thoroughly humbled by the fact SB had KK.

    "Must try harder to avoid tarps" That will have to go in my diary.
    Hope you learned something about teh pokers today

    Comment


      #62
      Originally posted by Downtown View Post
      apologies
      accepted

      Comment


        #63
        Originally posted by nicnicnic View Post
        I jammed he had KK, was chatting with Derek Murray straight after the hand and he suggested it was a much more interesting spot then it seems on the face of it.

        I think I'd much rather be calling a shove here from the SB and I do think given effective stack here, a lot of the time a flat is a big hand, not often enough to make it a fold but feel its closer then many think.
        Think this is overthinkin this spot a bit, the sb's flatting range has got to be super wide here, tons of ax's and some kx's. The times he's gettin trappy with aa/kk/qq will occur so rarely that u cant worry about it. The fact that he hasnt rejammed does not equal the top of his range, its actually the opposite.

        Comment


          #64
          Originally posted by alanmc101 View Post
          Think this is overthinkin this spot a bit, the sb's flatting range has got to be super wide here, tons of ax's and some kx's. The times he's gettin trappy with aa/kk/qq will occur so rarely that u cant worry about it. The fact that he hasnt rejammed does not equal the top of his range, its actually the opposite.
          I disagree with this, I think the majority of people posting in this thread anyway, will flat premiums and Jam wide. For me anyway in SB here my calling range is vastly smaller the my shoving range.


          I never said it's a fold here btw, but I think it can be in this spot read dependent.
          Last edited by nicnicnic; 06-12-11, 22:21.

          Comment


            #65
            Originally posted by nicnicnic View Post
            I disagree with this, I think the majority of people posting in this thread anyway, will flat premiums and Jam wide. For me anyway in SB here my calling range is vastly smaller the my shoving range.


            I never said it's a fold here btw, but I think it can be in this spot read dependent.
            Well it would clearly be a fold if you're the sb in this spot given what you've just revealed! But with 35bbs and the bb having me covered im not jamming wide here, theres no need to put your whole stack in jeopardy here with a marginal hand in case the bb wakes up with a monster. I'm flatting here with premiums and my marginal calling hands, then easily folding the bottom of my range when the bb gets involved.

            Comment


              #66
              Originally posted by alanmc101 View Post
              Well it would clearly be a fold if you're the sb in this spot given what you've just revealed! But with 35bbs and the bb having me covered im not jamming wide here, theres no need to put your whole stack in jeopardy here with a marginal hand in case the bb wakes up with a monster. I'm flatting here with premiums and my marginal calling hands, then easily folding the bottom of my range when the bb gets involved.

              so your never raising here in the SB ?

              Comment


                #67
                What did the button have?
                Pining for Wa'erford

                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by sligboi View Post
                  What did the button have?


                  A9 - flopped quads

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Originally posted by nicnicnic View Post


                    A9 - flopped quads
                    You went all in with Ace high vs a pair and quads?

                    For shame.
                    Pining for Wa'erford

                    Comment


                      #70
                      I think I much prefer reshipping AQ here than 99/TT also because we have blockers for AA/QQ, which decreases the combinations of "trapping hands", so most of the times we are crashing SB and still have 30% the few times he turn over KK.
                      If we are here discussing whether shipping or not AQ, then the SB should really call or reship superlight there vs us, given that we call only with top 3%.
                      Never folding.
                      "Poker isn’t about default strategies, it’s about exploiting your opponent's bad tendencies"

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by kenttheking View Post
                        FOLD SIT TIGHT
                        BUMP

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Originally posted by nicnicnic View Post
                          so your never raising here in the SB ?
                          I'm probably jammin 99/1010, maybe jj and sometimes ak/aq but its fine to flat these. I just hate reshippin the 35bigs with worse than these hands and i'll prob get trappy wit aa/kk/qq. This mightnt be perfectly optimal, maybe 88/ajs is fine too im not sure. I'll flat the 9bb button jam with somethin like a7s+, kj/kq and pairs.

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Originally posted by sandy65
                            Hey sports fans!Welcome to visit nflhotjersey.com!
                            If you are looking for great deals on NFL Merchandise then you've come to the right place.As a professional wholesaler of NFL jerseys,nflhotjersey.com specialized in supplying anthentic NFL Jersey and cheap NFL jerseys.Besides,nflhotjersey.com also sells other jerseys in different styles and colors with top quality at cheaper prices ,such as new nhl jerseys,wholesale mlb jerseys,replica nba jerseys,kids jerseys,women jerseys etc.
                            I wouldn't be an advocate of this, you're leaving yourself wide open to exploitation from the button - especially if he has an ice hockey jersey.

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Originally posted by kenttheking View Post
                              BUMP
                              just beautiful!

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Question: What's our range to jam here? It's gotta be tight enough as we don't have any fold equity over SB. A10s+?

                                Comment


                                  #76
                                  Originally posted by tglynn View Post
                                  Question: What's our range to jam here? It's gotta be tight enough as we don't have any fold equity over SB. A10s+?
                                  Unreal stuff!
                                  This thread really amazed me and showed up some supposedly good players as lacking in intellect, instinct and mathematics.
                                  Poster it might be a good exercise for you to look at hands like A10, AJ and AQ and see how poorly they flop 3 ways.
                                  With pretty much no chips invested here this is a fold. I'd only jam AK, JJ here (perhaps 10s), and I wouldn't feel good about the AK either.

                                  Comment


                                    #77
                                    Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                                    Unreal stuff!
                                    This thread really amazed me and showed up some supposedly good players as lacking in intellect, instinct and mathematics.
                                    Poster it might be a good exercise for you to look at hands like A10, AJ and AQ and see how poorly they flop 3 ways.
                                    With pretty much no chips invested here this is a fold. I'd only jam AK, JJ here (perhaps 10s), and I wouldn't feel good about the AK either.
                                    WOW, ok. Any1 else? I think we jam AJs+ here. Folding AQ as you say seems to nitty to a 9bb button shove and flat from sb!! Just looking for other people's opinion on where the shove/fold line is.
                                    Last edited by tglynn; 08-12-11, 21:22.

                                    Comment


                                      #78
                                      Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                                      Unreal stuff!
                                      This thread really amazed me and showed up some supposedly good players as lacking in intellect, instinct and mathematics.
                                      Poster it might be a good exercise for you to look at hands like A10, AJ and AQ and see how poorly they flop 3 ways.
                                      With pretty much no chips invested here this is a fold. I'd only jam AK, JJ here (perhaps 10s), and I wouldn't feel good about the AK either.
                                      Level obv.

                                      Comment


                                        #79
                                        I meant to be back here sooner,

                                        Originally posted by imidg View Post
                                        the sb flating here with anything less than aa kk maybe qq is such a bad play leaving himself open to a bb shove
                                        Originally posted by imidg View Post
                                        completely agree at least 80% of the time ur walking in AA KK. even bad players flat with aa kk ,rather call a shove from the sb than shove here. so imo fold is the right play
                                        The fact that you are giving him of a lol-range of KK+ 80% of the time and want to fold a strong hand is exactly the reason why its a good play to flat wide.

                                        Comment


                                          #80
                                          Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                                          Unreal stuff!
                                          This thread really amazed me and showed up some supposedly good players as lacking in intellect, instinct and mathematics.
                                          Poster it might be a good exercise for you to look at hands like A10, AJ and AQ and see how poorly they flop 3 ways.
                                          With pretty much no chips invested here this is a fold. I'd only jam AK, JJ here (perhaps 10s), and I wouldn't feel good about the AK either.
                                          folding everything bar JJ+, AK here against this action is bad if you give sb a range wider than that which he surely has. Also lol at your opening statement. utter tripe

                                          Comment


                                            #81
                                            Do the maths. I'll stand over each of those statements. We can all learn alot from this thread, I know I have, but some (and I'm not aiming this @ you) have their head so far up their arse that they'll never learn.

                                            I looked at a few scenarios 2 or 3 days ago so these mightn't be spot on and I know there's sidepots to take into account but in order to win it all we need 42% or so.
                                            If we're against 2 smaller pairs we have 33%.
                                            If we have SB dominated and button has ATC we're only 47% or so. And if we have them both dominated we're just over 50%.
                                            If either of them have the big pair we're crushed.
                                            AQ doesn't play well enough 3 handed aipf to make statements like "we have SB's range crushed", IMO anyway.
                                            Sometimes in tournament poker it pays to be prudent.

                                            Comment


                                              #82
                                              Did you look at the times the sb folds his widish range to our shove and we go up against the button with the extra dead money in the pot.

                                              Comment


                                                #83
                                                We can make 100

                                                Comment


                                                  #84
                                                  Originally posted by ikilldurrr1 View Post
                                                  Did you look at the times the sb folds his widish range to our shove and we go up against the button with the extra dead money in the pot.
                                                  No but that's one of the things that I'm taking from the thread. In my first post I think I said that the SB would have to be a clusterfuck to call 25% of his stack and then fold to a BB shove, yet later in the thread 2 of the posters I'd respect most said that they would play the hand in such a way with the bottom of their range.

                                                  Comment


                                                    #85
                                                    Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                                                    I looked at a few scenarios 2 or 3 days ago so these mightn't be spot on and I know there's sidepots to take into account but in order to win it all we need 42% or so.
                                                    No we don't. Nowhere near that. we need 33% 3 way and 50% heads up, we can also trade one vrs the other.
                                                    You can't mention that there are sides pots then go ahead and completly ignore it for the purposes of calcs. The numbers above are useless.
                                                    Over two thirds of the chips are in a heads up pot which massively effects the odds needed.
                                                    You are assuming that he never folds to our shove (i'm happy enough to assume that and put the tiems he does down as +EV for me)

                                                    You need to do two calcs
                                                    28*[equity 3-way] + 54[equity v SB] - 35


                                                    Can somebody do a stove on some ranges for me.

                                                    Comment


                                                      #86
                                                      Originally posted by Mellor View Post
                                                      I meant to be back here sooner,





                                                      The fact that you are giving him of a lol-range of KK+ 80% of the time and want to fold a strong hand is exactly the reason why its a good play to flat wide.
                                                      my 80% was abit rash. but my line on this spot is i dont want to lose over half my stack by shoving into trouble. you prob dont take me seriously but i grind a living mtt online and would never call the button shove if i was sb unless i was trapping

                                                      Comment


                                                        #87
                                                        I didn't ignore it in my calcs, I done the calcs in my head when replying to your post on page one and unfortunately I didn't strain my brain hard enough to take the sidepot calcs into consideration, I just said that they'd prob give me a multiplier of 1.15/1.3 but that prudently I'd fold. I didn't properly consider SB folding which was obviously a mistake.

                                                        Comment


                                                          #88
                                                          Arazi this is the 2nd thread you've questioned people's intellect. Give it a rest mate, as you've said yourself these threads are for people to learn. This happens a lot easier and without as much derailment when people question each others theories and arguments, not their intellect.
                                                          Pining for Wa'erford

                                                          Comment


                                                            #89
                                                            Originally posted by imidg View Post
                                                            my 80% was abit rash. but my line on this spot is i dont want to lose over half my stack by shoving into trouble. you prob dont take me seriously but i grind a living mtt online and would never call the button shove if i was sb unless i was trapping
                                                            Id have thought that this was a default play for the majority of decent players, putting a figure on it maybe 75% plus?

                                                            Comment


                                                              #90
                                                              @imidg
                                                              What you would do in the SBs spot is largely irrelevant. We are only interested in what other players do.

                                                              @Azari
                                                              You say you didn't ignore it. But then say you didn't take the sidepot calcs into consideration???
                                                              I'm not saying you should have in you head, i'm just pointing out that the side pot changes the 42% figure a lot. We never have 42% 3 way with AQ.

                                                              33% vs 42% is a bit difference.
                                                              It's basically a question of ranges, if peoples opinions of what to do are differing so much I'd imagine that the opinions on ranges will equally differ. So no calc will resolve anything.
                                                              Last edited by Mellor; 08-12-11, 23:45.

                                                              Comment


                                                                #91
                                                                Originally posted by sligboi View Post
                                                                Arazi this is the 2nd thread you've questioned people's intellect. Give it a rest mate, as you've said yourself these threads are for people to learn. This happens a lot easier and without as much derailment when people question each others theories and arguments, not their intellect.
                                                                Nah in fairness it's probably more than that. In this thread I certainly don't mean to insult anyone but some people could certainly improve themselves as players by being more openminded. There are alot of insults thrown around in this thread, directly at some posters in quite sly ways.

                                                                Comment


                                                                  #92
                                                                  Originally posted by Mellor View Post
                                                                  @imidg
                                                                  What you would do in the SBs spot is largely irrelevant. We are only interested in what other players do.

                                                                  @Azari
                                                                  You say you didn't ignore it. But then say you didn't take the sidepot calcs into consideration???
                                                                  I'm not saying you should have in you head, i'm just pointing out that the side pot changes the 42% figure a lot. We never have 42% 3 way with AQ.

                                                                  33% vs 42% is a bit difference.
                                                                  It's basically a question of ranges, if peoples opinions of what to do are differing so much I'd imagine that the opinions on ranges will equally differ. So no calc will resolve anything.
                                                                  what i would do myself in the sb is completly relevant thats why i would be very weary of the sb flat 60bb is very deep in this tourney i dont like to risk chips unless i know there gonna have to make a decision , btw i would call a sb shove

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    #93
                                                                    Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                                                                    Do the maths. I'll stand over each of those statements. We can all learn alot from this thread, I know I have, but some (and I'm not aiming this @ you) have their head so far up their arse that they'll never learn.

                                                                    I looked at a few scenarios 2 or 3 days ago so these mightn't be spot on and I know there's sidepots to take into account but in order to win it all we need 42% or so.
                                                                    If we're against 2 smaller pairs we have 33%.
                                                                    If we have SB dominated and button has ATC we're only 47% or so. And if we have them both dominated we're just over 50%.
                                                                    If either of them have the big pair we're crushed.
                                                                    AQ doesn't play well enough 3 handed aipf to make statements like "we have SB's range crushed", IMO anyway.
                                                                    Sometimes in tournament poker it pays to be prudent.
                                                                    I am Captain Prudence in tournys! Yet I still agree with shoving with AQ over the top of sb flat, especially if it is online as there a so many players who just so below par in these spots, they see 10bb button shove and will flat any ace,kj kq and any pair, without even thinking what if bb reshoves and when bb does shove they fold everytime unless they have TT, Ak or better. Thats alot of times you get hu with dominated button with extra equity. I will say tho AQ is the bottom of my range here for a reshove.

                                                                    I think once someone works out the numbers for this Arazi you will see a new light on this spot and maybe perhaps you will be the one who is more open minded to a shove with AQ because it's going to be closer to a shove than you think.

                                                                    Also, the fact that this is the Ipops where you have about a thousand recreational players playing the event it's certainly a reshoving spot as it's one of the biggest leaks in a recreational players game. Even if the numbers come so close that maybe your line of thinking could be better play by a small margin, I still shove because in a field like this with it's size, fast structure, bad players and my edge knowing ranges better than most I've got to stick it in here, all these variables are apart of this hand and will without notes saying otherwise make this a +ev shove.

                                                                    Now where's the LaoisHammer to stove this shit

                                                                    Apologies for my intro tone to the thread too, was no need for it. I was on hooker tilt, you no when your like fuck this shit, fuck that, fuck everything & everyone sort of tilt?..well yeap that's the one.
                                                                    Huh, Math my dear boy is nothing more than the lesbian sister of biology.

                                                                    My Poker Blog http://jason-tompkins.blogspot.com
                                                                    My twitter http://twitter.com/#!/blaaaaaah666

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      #94
                                                                      reason i joined/post IPB so i can see analysis/viewpoints fron accomplised (spelt wrong fek it) players and although I do get the odd 'lol' and '^^' comment i am not deterred..

                                                                      so can you clarify the shove?

                                                                      1. is it to isolate small stack?
                                                                      2. are you happy if sb calls?
                                                                      3. are you happy to 'race' sb ?
                                                                      4. i know you wont be results orientated but surely stack sizes come into play?

                                                                      i suggested a flat and assess flop with a 50% 'intent' to shove the rest on flop

                                                                      this i felt gave another option

                                                                      as we know he had KK now then sb obv shove flop but if he (sb) had small/med pair and flop was 'dangerous' ..after all you didnt shove so your range is very wide from pairs to connectors etc etc which then opens up the sb check then you shove option

                                                                      as you stated (blaaah) a lot of ppl in this wont be thinking that deep and also looking at not busting and cashing rather than going deep

                                                                      feel free to slate my thgts as thats only way i will learn but remember the LOL's at min raising not so long ago !!

                                                                      I have a tough skin...go for it

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        #95
                                                                        Originally posted by blaaaaaaah View Post
                                                                        Now where's the LaoisHammer to stove this shit
                                                                        Originally posted by Mellor View Post
                                                                        You need to do two calcs
                                                                        28*[equity 3-way] + 54[equity v SB] - 35

                                                                        Can somebody do a stove on some ranges for me.
                                                                        I got some ranges stove'd so can fill in the blanks above.

                                                                        So I gave SB a range of 77+|AT+|KQ (7.5%) of hands and the button 60%. These were just an estimate in my head of we prob need.
                                                                        Our equity is 35.6% and 50.3% for 3-way and heads up respectively. Which works out at

                                                                        28*[.356] + 54[.503] - 35
                                                                        =+2.1k

                                                                        If you adjust the SB range to 99+ it doesn't change out equity a huge amount. And its still +EV. He'd need a much tighter range to make shoving -EV

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          #96
                                                                          Originally posted by TheDrunkenOne View Post
                                                                          reason i joined/post IPB so i can see analysis/viewpoints fron accomplised (spelt wrong fek it) players and although I do get the odd 'lol' and '^^' comment i am not deterred..

                                                                          so can you clarify the shove?

                                                                          1. is it to isolate small stack?
                                                                          2. are you happy if sb calls?
                                                                          3. are you happy to 'race' sb ?
                                                                          4. i know you wont be results orientated but surely stack sizes come into play?

                                                                          i suggested a flat and assess flop with a 50% 'intent' to shove the rest on flop

                                                                          this i felt gave another option

                                                                          as we know he had KK now then sb obv shove flop but if he (sb) had small/med pair and flop was 'dangerous' ..after all you didnt shove so your range is very wide from pairs to connectors etc etc which then opens up the sb check then you shove option

                                                                          as you stated (blaaah) a lot of ppl in this wont be thinking that deep and also looking at not busting and cashing rather than going deep

                                                                          feel free to slate my thgts as thats only way i will learn but remember the LOL's at min raising not so long ago !!

                                                                          I have a tough skin...go for it
                                                                          while i dont really agree with a call in the bb,say we do surely if the sb cant find the raise button preflop if he misses he will check the flop then we can take it away, not a lol idea imo more than one way to skin a cat

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            #97
                                                                            Originally posted by ViperEyeIRL View Post
                                                                            I think I much prefer reshipping AQ here than 99/TT also because we have blockers for AA/QQ, which decreases the combinations of "trapping hands", so most of the times we are crashing SB and still have 30% the few times he turn over KK.
                                                                            If we are here discussing whether shipping or not AQ, then the SB should really call or reship superlight there vs us, given that we call only with top 3%.
                                                                            Never folding.
                                                                            Totally wrong, people put way too much importance in blockers IMO

                                                                            You have 35% equity with AQ, 44% with TT - that's a pretty big difference

                                                                            104,503,543,452 games 98.745 secs 1,058,317,316 games/sec

                                                                            Board:
                                                                            Dead:

                                                                            equity win tie pots won pots tied
                                                                            Hand 0: 44.062% 43.58% 00.48% 45540043582 506610209.33 { TT }
                                                                            Hand 1: 20.079% 19.58% 00.50% 20462173917 521343813.83 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 95s+, 85s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s, A2o+, K2o+, Q4o+, J7o+, T7o+, 97o+, 87o, 76o }
                                                                            Hand 2: 35.858% 35.20% 00.66% 36788256353 685115576.83 { 66+, A8s+, KJs+, A9o+, KQo }

                                                                            11,259,373,356 games 11.957 secs 941,655,378 games/sec

                                                                            Board:
                                                                            Dead:

                                                                            equity win tie pots won pots tied
                                                                            Hand 0: 39.738% 39.35% 00.40% 4430106059 44638021.67 { 99 }
                                                                            Hand 1: 21.735% 21.31% 00.43% 2399256723 48263770.17 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 95s+, 85s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s, A2o+, K2o+, Q4o+, J7o+, T7o+, 97o+, 87o, 76o }
                                                                            Hand 2: 38.527% 37.83% 00.70% 4259293391 79186145.17 { 66+, A8s+, KJs+, A9o+, KQo }


                                                                            ---

                                                                            2,411,156,286 games 3.005 secs 802,381,459 games/sec

                                                                            Board:
                                                                            Dead:

                                                                            equity win tie pots won pots tied
                                                                            Hand 0: 36.435% 33.59% 02.85% 809877549 68621124.83 { AQo }
                                                                            Hand 1: 29.118% 28.93% 00.19% 697477093 4593674.33 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 95s+, 85s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s, A2o+, K2o+, Q4o+, J7o+, T7o+, 97o+, 87o, 76o }
                                                                            Hand 2: 34.448% 31.54% 02.91% 760406507 70180337.83 { 66+, A8s+, KJs+, A9o+, KQo }

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              #98
                                                                              Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                                                                              No but that's one of the things that I'm taking from the thread. In my first post I think I said that the SB would have to be a clusterfuck to call 25% of his stack and then fold to a BB shove, yet later in the thread 2 of the posters I'd respect most said that they would play the hand in such a way with the bottom of their range.
                                                                              From the sb here facing the 9bbs jam its fine to flat a decent range and fold if the bb shoves. The button should be shoving pretty much anything and when u flat here it'll take the bb waking up with an absolute monster before he gets involved, even you want to fold aq in his shoes here and arent comfortable wit ak! The vast majority of the time u get heads up with the button and other times u fold leaving yourself with 27bbs. As ive said i dont like rejamming here from the sb without a premium but im not folding a9+ in the sb here when its clearly goin to be printing money vs the button jam.

                                                                              As for bein in the bb here, on reflection its probably closer than most people including myself said initially, but im never foldin aq in this spot, jus too nitty for me. You have to go with 99+ here. Although i might be a clusterfuck.

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                #99
                                                                                What do we do if the SB flats playing 20 bigs, 23 bigs, 30 bigs 40 bigs 60 bigs??

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  Originally posted by blaaaaaaah View Post
                                                                                  Now where's the LaoisHammer to stove this shit
                                                                                  I got numbers that look a bit like this
                                                                                  SPOILER
                                                                                  100% ship the loots in

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                                                                                    In my first post I think I said that the SB would have to be a clusterfuck to call 25% of his stack and then fold to a BB shove, yet later in the thread 2 of the posters I'd respect most said that they would play the hand in such a way with the bottom of their range.
                                                                                    I know we're on the line here with regards to spew when we call/fold 25% of our stack. Given a decent range BB will shove over our call here it can only really be easily justified 40-45BB+ deep, I didn't think it through thoroughly but I secede to your point that 36BB deep may be cutting it. The problem is if we assume a decently wide range for BB to reshove we're just about getting our 2:1 and are super-close to being forced to call it off, regardless of holding. If it's tighter than that, maybe AK/JJ+, then call/folding would be ok since 95% (more with an A/K blocker to his reshoving range in our hand) of the time we get this HU, and the other 5% we can make a -EV fold to survive since BB is obv a nit and will likely make life easy for us in future hands. BB being a nit also means BTN shoves wider which improves the EV of our call.

                                                                                    Originally posted by ghostface ste View Post
                                                                                    We can make 100
                                                                                    BOOM! Now how bout tree fiddy
                                                                                    "c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      Originally posted by smoothcall View Post
                                                                                      What do we do if the SB flats playing 20 bigs, 23 bigs, 30 bigs 40 bigs 60 bigs??
                                                                                      Shove, shove, shove, shove and click back fold to sb reshove.
                                                                                      Huh, Math my dear boy is nothing more than the lesbian sister of biology.

                                                                                      My Poker Blog http://jason-tompkins.blogspot.com
                                                                                      My twitter http://twitter.com/#!/blaaaaaah666

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        Originally posted by blaaaaaaah View Post
                                                                                        I am Captain Prudence in tournys! Yet I still agree with shoving with AQ over the top of sb flat, especially if it is online as there a so many players who just so below par in these spots, they see 10bb button shove and will flat any ace,kj kq and any pair, without even thinking what if bb reshoves and when bb does shove they fold everytime unless they have TT, Ak or better. Thats alot of times you get hu with dominated button with extra equity. I will say tho AQ is the bottom of my range here for a reshove.

                                                                                        I think once someone works out the numbers for this Arazi you will see a new light on this spot and maybe perhaps you will be the one who is more open minded to a shove with AQ because it's going to be closer to a shove than you think.

                                                                                        Also, the fact that this is the Ipops where you have about a thousand recreational players playing the event it's certainly a reshoving spot as it's one of the biggest leaks in a recreational players game. Even if the numbers come so close that maybe your line of thinking could be better play by a small margin, I still shove because in a field like this with it's size, fast structure, bad players and my edge knowing ranges better than most I've got to stick it in here, all these variables are apart of this hand and will without notes saying otherwise make this a +ev shove.

                                                                                        Now where's the LaoisHammer to stove this shit

                                                                                        Apologies for my intro tone to the thread too, was no need for it. I was on hooker tilt, you no when your like fuck this shit, fuck that, fuck everything & everyone sort of tilt?..well yeap that's the one.




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                                                                                          Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
                                                                                          Totally wrong, people put way too much importance in blockers IMO

                                                                                          You have 35% equity with AQ, 44% with TT - that's a pretty big difference

                                                                                          104,503,543,452 games 98.745 secs 1,058,317,316 games/sec

                                                                                          Board:
                                                                                          Dead:

                                                                                          equity win tie pots won pots tied
                                                                                          Hand 0: 44.062% 43.58% 00.48% 45540043582 506610209.33 { TT }
                                                                                          Hand 1: 20.079% 19.58% 00.50% 20462173917 521343813.83 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 95s+, 85s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s, A2o+, K2o+, Q4o+, J7o+, T7o+, 97o+, 87o, 76o }
                                                                                          Hand 2: 35.858% 35.20% 00.66% 36788256353 685115576.83 { 66+, A8s+, KJs+, A9o+, KQo }

                                                                                          11,259,373,356 games 11.957 secs 941,655,378 games/sec

                                                                                          Board:
                                                                                          Dead:

                                                                                          equity win tie pots won pots tied
                                                                                          Hand 0: 39.738% 39.35% 00.40% 4430106059 44638021.67 { 99 }
                                                                                          Hand 1: 21.735% 21.31% 00.43% 2399256723 48263770.17 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 95s+, 85s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s, A2o+, K2o+, Q4o+, J7o+, T7o+, 97o+, 87o, 76o }
                                                                                          Hand 2: 38.527% 37.83% 00.70% 4259293391 79186145.17 { 66+, A8s+, KJs+, A9o+, KQo }


                                                                                          ---

                                                                                          2,411,156,286 games 3.005 secs 802,381,459 games/sec

                                                                                          Board:
                                                                                          Dead:

                                                                                          equity win tie pots won pots tied
                                                                                          Hand 0: 36.435% 33.59% 02.85% 809877549 68621124.83 { AQo }
                                                                                          Hand 1: 29.118% 28.93% 00.19% 697477093 4593674.33 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 95s+, 85s+, 74s+, 64s+, 54s, A2o+, K2o+, Q4o+, J7o+, T7o+, 97o+, 87o, 76o }
                                                                                          Hand 2: 34.448% 31.54% 02.91% 760406507 70180337.83 { 66+, A8s+, KJs+, A9o+, KQo }
                                                                                          I think blockers are pretty important in this case because most of the time the flatting range of the caller in the SB is made by hands that plan to fold a reshove or by monsters. I would expect AQ/AK//AJ//AT/JJ/TT/99 to reship nearly always there from the SB. I don't think he would flat AT/AJ/AQ/88 etc hoping for us to shove with worse hands and call it off (given that there is no much FE and we look superstrong if we reship there) - this is why I think having blockers decreases by 33% the frequency of the monster hands he flats with (AA/KK/QQ), and given that if he does have AA/KK/QQ we have much better equity with AQ than with TT - we don't worry much about hand like 66/77/etc (probably 90% of the range you assigned to player 2) against which TT/99 perform better because they are not going to call off our shove anyway (most of the times).

                                                                                          TT certainly performs better than AQ vs player 1 range, but player 1 is not our main concern in this spot.
                                                                                          Last edited by ViperEyeIRL; 10-12-11, 02:06.
                                                                                          "Poker isn’t about default strategies, it’s about exploiting your opponent's bad tendencies"

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