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Old 29-06-15, 12:14   #51421
Emmet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
Juncker washing his hands of the Greeks right now. Don't think I have ever heard language like this from the Commission before.
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Originally Posted by emmet02 View Post
Juncker discussing the package
http://ec.europa.eu/avservices/ebs/l...page=1&lang=en
(all paraphrased)

- There are no wage cuts in this package
- There are no pension cuts in this package
- On many instances, we were the ones asking for the socialist measures
- Package goes beyond fiscal measures
- Lowers fiscal targets
- It is more than €12bn less in demands than previous agreement
- Many member states have higher fiscal targets despite having lower levels of debt
- Proposal to modernise the public sector
- Agreed to review collective bargaining in private sector (in line with Best European practices)
- No cuts in the levels of pensions
- Even the Greek government agrees that the Greek pension system urgently needs reform to be sustainable. They have agreed that it is unsustainable.
- It should be clear that everyone should contribute to the welfare system according to their means.
- Guaranteed minimum income scheme
- We were asking for cuts in defense, and I think we were totally right in asking.
- Removing favourable tax loopholes, for example ship owners
- A lot of this is common sense, and in line with tax justice
- more social fairness by fighting corruption, more transparency and efficiency of administration
- Who could be against independent tax administration? This is the normal rule.
- Once more, it was us pushing these measures. The offers of assistance were not taken up.
- This package for more growth and investment
- There are no quick fixes for many of Greece's underlying problems.
- E.g - why are energy prices so high compared to europe? - lack of competition and financial interests.
- Biggest problem for Greece is uncertainty, which can only really be fixed with a deal.

NOW

- Greece authorities walked away from negotiations (unexpectedly) on Friday night
- We were working on proposals regarding the vat % on hotels
- The fact that our Greek colleagues left the table at the worst moment
- We explained that a deal on these measures could unlock financial aid for the coming months.
- Discussed that EuroGroup was ready to discuss debt measures this Autumn!
- New package of €35bn was being organised to get Greece back on track.
- Not only about fiscal consolidation, but about pushing forward the growth of Greece.
- As you can see, we moved mountains until very last minute when Greek's closed the door.
- I don't have to make new proposals, I'm describing the proposals that were on the table.
- I felt we could easily reach an agreement at the EuroGroup.
- What do the Greek people know about the flexibility, the details of the offer etc
.
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Old 29-06-15, 12:26   #51422
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Juncker
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I'm not a big fan of Poles
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Old 29-06-15, 12:31   #51423
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Also, what the fuck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juncker
I'd say to the Greeks, you shouldn't commit suicide because you're afraid of dying
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Old 29-06-15, 12:37   #51424
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Juncker
I'd say it's a bit early to be locked. If it wasn't Juncker.

Notorious.
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Old 29-06-15, 12:41   #51425
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Maybe, but there is underlying toxicity to Greek society that means any Greek government, regardless of political idealogy, was going to make this process incredibly complicated. Bear in mind that their situation has been more than a decade in gestation.
Ever since WW2 tbf. I semi-jokingly suggested Churchill should have let Stalin have Greece (he was certainly in a position to take it). No way would the Greeks be electing clowns like Syriza in 2015 with that historical baggage behind them.

This worth a read:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Civil_War
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Last edited by Raoul Duke III; 29-06-15 at 12:50. Reason: Link that wasn't written by a high school kid
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Old 29-06-15, 12:54   #51426
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Originally Posted by Raoul Duke III View Post
Ever since WW2 tbf. I semi-jokingly suggested Churchill should have let Stalin have Greece (he was certainly in a position to take it). No way would the Greeks be electing clowns like Syriza in 2015 with that historical baggage behind them.

This worth a read:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Civil_War
The political fallout for more radical parties in other EU countries is going to be very fascinating to watch. Also the printing presses are going to be starting to ratchet up their production I reckon. Only so many times you can do that before they lose all effectiveness...
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Old 29-06-15, 12:56   #51427
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The political fallout for more radical parties in other EU countries is going to be very fascinating to watch.
Judging by the horrified silence of our own Syriza wannabes, it won't!
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Old 29-06-15, 13:00   #51428
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Guessing first serious riots will start Weds\Thurs. Tsiphillis trying to stand over his riot police beating civilians will be interesting.
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Old 29-06-15, 13:12   #51429
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Guessing first serious riots will start Weds\Thurs. Tsiphillis trying to stand over his riot police beating civilians will be interesting.
Intra-bank wages won't be paid (private sector) according to some whispers...

That wont go down well.
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Old 29-06-15, 13:17   #51430
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Guessing first serious riots will start Weds\Thurs. Tsiphillis trying to stand over his riot police beating civilians will be interesting.
Instead of betting on the referendum results people should be betting on whether they will happen or not.

By Sunday you'll have riots, shootings and looting. Good luck holding a referendum with that going on.

Whatever fall back position the game theorists have the economic reputational damage to Greece means foreign investors will be very slow to go near Greece. A prolonged recession will take a significant turn for the worse now.
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Old 29-06-15, 13:20   #51431
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How close were Ireland to ending up in the same position as Greece? A couple of years ago we were totalled about in the same category. Did we do that much different to them it were they in a different ballgame from the outset?
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Old 29-06-15, 13:25   #51432
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Who is next in line? Portugal? Spain? Us?
For all the whinging about austerity our government haven't actually made massive cuts in government spending.
Heard we could be on the hook for up to 2 Billy for greece. Hopefully that will nobble the election buying stunt of reinstating bubble era pay for civil servants
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Old 29-06-15, 13:28   #51433
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How close were Ireland to ending up in the same position as Greece? A couple of years ago we were totalled about in the same category. Did we do that much different to them it were they in a different ballgame from the outset?
Noonan was fairly candid about it, there was between 3 and 6 worth months of money available to pay salaries and keep schools and hospitals open when he took over.

We were probably lucky that the election came when it did, if it had been say 20 months later you could have had some sort of AAA / Sinn Fein / Talk to Joe coalition who would have tried to drive us over the cliff in the same way.
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Old 29-06-15, 13:33   #51434
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Old 29-06-15, 13:52   #51435
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Who is next in line? Portugal? Spain? Us?
For all the whinging about austerity our government haven't actually made massive cuts in government spending.
Heard we could be on the hook for up to 2 Billy for greece. Hopefully that will nobble the election buying stunt of reinstating bubble era pay for civil servants
We're almost part of the core now



edit: just to explain, the reaction this morning was for bond yields to go up in the PIGS countries (Port,Italy,Greece,Spain) while money moved to the safe countries Germany, Belgium and...us!
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Old 29-06-15, 13:53   #51436
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What way is this Greece thing going to affect GBP v Euro? Is the rate going to change much?
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Old 29-06-15, 14:03   #51437
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Originally Posted by V for Vendetta View Post
Instead of betting on the referendum results people should be betting on whether they will happen or not.

By Sunday you'll have riots, shootings and looting. Good luck holding a referendum with that going on.

Whatever fall back position the game theorists have the economic reputational damage to Greece means foreign investors will be very slow to go near Greece. A prolonged recession will take a significant turn for the worse now.
The referendum is a proposition on a package that doesn't exist. It's surreal.
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Old 29-06-15, 14:05   #51438
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Judging by the horrified silence of our own Syriza wannabes, it won't!
Any official comment on it?

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Old 29-06-15, 14:06   #51439
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Noonan was fairly candid about it, there was between 3 and 6 worth months of money available to pay salaries and keep schools and hospitals open when he took over.

We were probably lucky that the election came when it did, if it had been say 20 months later you could have had some sort of AAA / Sinn Fein / Talk to Joe coalition who would have tried to drive us over the cliff in the same way.
I remember the Labour ministers in particular being utterly shocked when they got their first briefing on the state of the public finances. In fairness to them they put their heads down and got to work.

You can bet Syriza got similar briefings when they took over.
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Old 29-06-15, 14:13   #51440
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I remember the Labour ministers in particular being utterly shocked when they got their first briefing on the state of the public finances. In fairness to them they put their heads down and got to work.

You can bet Syriza got similar briefings when they took over.
They've certainly done the business in any case!

If business is talking, and doing nothing that is.
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