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Old 22-01-12, 11:51   #1
PokerPiper
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IPPF Ruling

Interesting spot at IPPF Day #1.

I have been pretty active and raise in LP expecting competent button to 3-Bet. He duely obliges. I decide to flat.

I count out my chips and throw them in. Button throws his cards in thinking I have re-raised. The cards were clearly over the line but hadn't hit the muck. It was a clear fold.

Dealer tells him its just a call and isn't sure what to do.

TD (Nick) is called and allows button to take his cards back and play the hand saying "just be careful in future"

At the time it didn't bother me too much as I was strong in the hand but in hindsight I think it was a pretty bad ruling.

Any opinions ?
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Old 22-01-12, 11:58   #2
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I think this is similar to when a BB forgets () that they are BB, and throw in their cards, before utg acts.

By allowing cards back, the TD is opening the hand to angle shooting imo.

Dead Hand.
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Old 22-01-12, 12:04   #3
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terrible decision by the TD, if this had been the bubble etc think of the effect of it on the rest of the tournie. Hand is dead
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Old 22-01-12, 13:14   #4
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If the chips were not similar in colour it would not have happened. The 500 / 5000 and 25 / 1000 could not be seen apart from one side of the table to the other. Throw in the 1st dealer at our table who had to be asked first if it was a raise or call and then how much it was every hand.
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Old 22-01-12, 13:26   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnzoScifo View Post
If the chips were not similar in colour it would not have happened.
Villain folded his cards before my chips even hit the felt. Nothing to do with chip colours in this case but I agree with what you are saying. It was difficult to tell them apart.
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Old 22-01-12, 16:08   #6
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Was this at table 4?
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Old 22-01-12, 16:41   #7
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Originally Posted by PokerPiper View Post
Villain folded his cards before my chips even hit the felt. Nothing to do with chip colours in this case but I agree with what you are saying. It was difficult to tell them apart.
I don't see anything wrong with Nicks ruling as long as the cards were clearly identifiable.

Wouldn't that come close to falling under the No open folding ruling that they were trying and mostly failing to implement there.
One lad got warned in a fairly standard spot for mucking his hand as the raiser in the HU hand picked up chips to c bet.

Don't get me started on chip colours. How fucking difficult is it to produce chips that can be easily identified?
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Old 22-01-12, 16:58   #8
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Originally Posted by Strewelpeter View Post

Don't get me started on chip colours. How fucking difficult is it to produce chips that can be easily identified?
First 2 hands get played at our table on day 2 when Glen McCabe sees that he had put in a 100 chip and had got a 25 and 1000 chip as change. No one at the table had seen someone put in 1025 instead of 50 for antes. Just another example of had retarded the chips were. Nick ruled that Glen could keep his profit as he could not trace back over the 2 hands to find where it came from.
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Old 22-01-12, 18:15   #9
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i see nothing wrong with the ruling and would have ruled the said.

player a has not been raised out the pot and is entitled to see the flop. my only concern would be to make sure that player a's cards are 100% identifiable.

player b will already have an advantage as he/she will be able eliminate possible starting cards from player a's holdings.
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Old 24-01-12, 09:43   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Poker View Post
i see nothing wrong with the ruling and would have ruled the said.

player a has not been raised out the pot and is entitled to see the flop. my only concern would be to make sure that player a's cards are 100% identifiable.

player b will already have an advantage as he/she will be able eliminate possible starting cards from player a's holdings.
Would you give a time penalty to player A for possible soft play/collusion?
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Old 25-01-12, 01:58   #11
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Originally Posted by Micknail View Post
Would you give a time penalty to player A for possible soft play/collusion?
I wouldn't give a player a time penalty who thinks he is facing a raise and go's to muck only to realise that he hasn't been raised.
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Old 25-01-12, 02:02   #12
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Originally Posted by Strewelpeter View Post
I don't see anything wrong with Nicks ruling as long as the cards were clearly identifiable.

Wouldn't that come close to falling under the No open folding ruling that they were trying and mostly failing to implement there.
One lad got warned in a fairly standard spot for mucking his hand as the raiser in the HU hand picked up chips to c bet.

Don't get me started on chip colours. How fucking difficult is it to produce chips that can be easily identified?
i got a 2hand penalty for open folding from small blind after flop was dealt without any previous warning!!
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Old 25-01-12, 02:52   #13
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Originally Posted by hammo19 View Post
i got a 2hand penalty for open folding from small blind after flop was dealt without any previous warning!!
And rightly so
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Old 25-01-12, 12:10   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammo19 View Post
i got a 2hand penalty for open folding from small blind after flop was dealt without any previous warning!!
Nick explained that rule at the start of play and said there were no exceptions, as well as leaving before it's your turn to act.
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Old 25-01-12, 12:31   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnzoScifo View Post
First 2 hands get played at our table on day 2 when Glen McCabe sees that he had put in a 100 chip and had got a 25 and 1000 chip as change. No one at the table had seen someone put in 1025 instead of 50 for antes. Just another example of had retarded the chips were. Nick ruled that Glen could keep his profit as he could not trace back over the 2 hands to find where it came from.
I was on that table. To Stewie Samuels' right and across from the guy that got the 975 bonus. Am guessing that it happened at only one table!
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Old 26-01-12, 16:49   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Poker View Post
i see nothing wrong with the ruling and would have ruled the said.

player a has not been raised out the pot and is entitled to see the flop. my only concern would be to make sure that player a's cards are 100% identifiable.

player b will already have an advantage as he/she will be able eliminate possible starting cards from player a's holdings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Poker View Post
I wouldn't give a player a time penalty who thinks he is facing a raise and go's to muck only to realise that he hasn't been raised.
JP,

I agree with both you and the ruling given tbh, the cards if clearly identifiable are still in play.

Just on the angle shoot thing though, say the hand is played out and it turns out the Button/Villan turns up with KK/AA and takes down a monster pot, its kind of too late to reverse the ruling, So what do you do??
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Old 26-01-12, 17:09   #17
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Originally Posted by premierstone View Post
JP,

I agree with both you and the ruling given tbh, the cards if clearly identifiable are still in play.

Just on the angle shoot thing though, say the hand is played out and it turns out the Button/Villan turns up with KK/AA and takes down a monster pot, its kind of too late to reverse the ruling, So what do you do??

I like the way you're thinking here, might test this one out in Molloys if I ever pick up AA on the button
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Old 26-04-12, 22:27   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammo19 View Post
i got a 2hand penalty for open folding from small blind after flop was dealt without any previous warning!!
that is ridiculous


didnt see this though
Nick explained that rule at the start of play and said there were no exceptions, as well as leaving before it's your turn to act.

Last edited by Goodluck2me; 26-04-12 at 22:30.
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