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    Originally posted by Sledgejammer View Post
    Start by calling, raising achieves nothing and we're obviously not folding
    i definitely think you should be raising there a decent % of the time.

    Comment


      Originally posted by phantom_lord View Post
      i definitely think you should be raising there a decent % of the time.
      Even with position? Getting it in is hardly a huge mistake obviously, but surely calling with position is better?
      "In the world, there are many kings but there is only one God. I am God, I am El Tren" :{)

      Comment


        betting the turn to get value from FDs that called the flop

        Some SDs call one more bet, as does 88 and TT which I should be extracting from.

        There is a lot of cards on the river that hurt my hand, so I am also happy to fold out random 9x and 7x cards that I will struggle to fold against if they hit two pair.

        I dont think the Q hits a huge part of his range, AhQh, KQo+ and QJo+.

        Please criticise line of thought

        Comment


          In the first hand, I called. hand was checked to showdown unimproved and I beat an underpair.

          I am rarely sure of a correct line to play there, and in the same scenario, with TP and a FD, my standard play is to raise, but I again I am not sure of this.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Sledgejammer View Post
            Even with position? Getting it in is hardly a huge mistake obviously, but surely calling with position is better?
            because you're gonna be bluff raising there a bunch so you can't always call with a hand like this.

            Comment


              Originally posted by phantom_lord View Post
              because you're gonna be bluff raising there a bunch so you can't always call with a hand like this.
              Yeah but is that kind of thought entirely necessary at 50nl unless we're playing alot with the villain? I think by default here calling will show more profit I'd imagine, without more specific reads and dynamic anyway?

              And your thought process is fine in the second hand, Emmet.
              "In the world, there are many kings but there is only one God. I am God, I am El Tren" :{)

              Comment


                Originally posted by phantom_lord View Post
                because you're gonna be bluff raising there a bunch so you can't always call with a hand like this.
                disagree. i'm calling there 100%. absolutely no need to balance your bluff raising range with this specific hand.

                Comment


                  Yeah I would never raise there, I'd raise worse hands, or better ones

                  Comment


                    Yeah i'm just peeling a turn in hand 1 as well, against some villains raise might be better but my default line would be to call.

                    Hand 2 is fine imo. I bet the turn also.

                    Comment


                      wtf is wrong with my redline?

                      Graph and stats for last 20k hands






                      Im planning on taking poker semi seriously for the summer, so will probably be looking for some coaching / invest more time in theory once my exams are done.

                      Is there anything immediately sticking out at you that would stop me leaking so much in Non Showdown pots?
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                        Its fine emmet nearly everyone loses in them except spew boxes like digiman. -3ptbb is standard enough and about what I run at. Aside from that you could loosen up a lot in MP and CO.

                        Comment


                          those 20k hands are almost exclusively Rush. Quick Folding marginal hands and only really playing monsters is inanely profitable, so much so that I dont feel like I need open my range up much more than my heavy value range.

                          Comment


                            can someone tell me what one's winrate in the blinds would be if u just folded every hand? I think I'm doing it wrong...Basically is it 1bb every 6 hands which would be 16.66~ / 100 and 8.33/100 for the sb or is it 100bb/100 for the BB and 50bb/100 for the sb?

                            And what is a normal winrate in the small and big blinds for people?

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by colquhom View Post
                              can someone tell me what one's winrate in the blinds would be if u just folded every hand? I think I'm doing it wrong...Basically is it 1bb every 6 hands which would be 16.66~ / 100 and 8.33/100 for the sb or is it 100bb/100 for the BB and 50bb/100 for the sb?

                              And what is a normal winrate in the small and big blinds for people?
                              It's the latter and everyone loses out of the blinds pretty much
                              "In the world, there are many kings but there is only one God. I am God, I am El Tren" :{)

                              Comment


                                Thought you were "Quitting poker forever"?

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by Sledgejammer View Post
                                  It's the latter and everyone loses out of the blinds pretty much
                                  Cheers, ye i know people by and large lose. Do you have any estimate on the average losses?

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by colquhom View Post
                                    Cheers, ye i know people by and large lose. Do you have any estimate on the average losses?
                                    I've not checked my winrate by position in a while and haven't got my HEM on this so others can probably chime in with exact figures, if not try 2+2 I'd imagine they've loads of posts on playing from the blinds and decent ways to minimise your lossrates. Don't forget that beyond losing .75bb every hand you also play oop in nearly every hand so anything not uttery horrible is probably fine. As general advice, just try to nit it up in the SB anyway, I think playing with a high vpip is a very common leak out of the SB especially
                                    "In the world, there are many kings but there is only one God. I am God, I am El Tren" :{)

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by max_power View Post
                                      Thought you were "Quitting poker forever"?
                                      Ye i say that a lot. Well i kinda mean it , im just sick and bored so i was fiddling with holdemmanager.

                                      Comment


                                        Note on villain : cant help but bluff
                                        Flop and turn were a bit of a let down. But river he lived up to his note


                                        No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                        Button ($108.93)
                                        Hero (CO) ($237.50)
                                        SB ($100)
                                        MP ($138.33)
                                        UTG ($66.90)
                                        BB ($42.92)

                                        Preflop: Hero is CO with A, K
                                        1 fold, MP bets $3.50, Hero raises $13, 3 folds, MP calls $9.50

                                        Flop: ($27.50) 6, 9, K (2 players)
                                        MP checks, Hero checks

                                        Turn: ($27.50) 9 (2 players)
                                        MP checks, Hero checks

                                        River: ($27.50) K (2 players)
                                        MP checks, Hero bets $21, MP raises $42, Hero raises $57, MP raises $83.33 (All-In), Hero calls $47.33

                                        Total pot: $278.16

                                        Results:
                                        MP didn't show
                                        Hero had A, K (full house, Kings over nines).
                                        Outcome: Hero won $275.16

                                        Comment


                                          @emmet

                                          first off you have a very decent winrate over those 20k hands so don't hurt your green line trying to improve your red line, but thats old news i suppose. Your vpip from positions is good as well, nice steady increase from utg to button. Your 3b% I would consider low but maybe playing rush this is more standard - i have played a little but not much. One thing I would suggest that may have a positive affect on your red line would be that you try to 3b more in position than from the blinds. The little bit of rush poker I played was at $0.1/0.25 and I found a lot of it was playing really deep - a lot of hands would be 200bbs+. You can 3b a lot more than 3.8% of hands on button in such games(imo). That said your winrate from the button playing the way you are playing is excellent so why fix it when it's not broken!

                                          Comment


                                            Damn I wish I could erase today and still have a graph like the one above.

                                            Comment


                                              Originally posted by emmet02 View Post
                                              wtf is wrong with my redline?

                                              Graph and stats for last 20k hands


                                              Im planning on taking poker semi seriously for the summer, so will probably be looking for some coaching / invest more time in theory once my exams are done.

                                              Is there anything immediately sticking out at you that would stop me leaking so much in Non Showdown pots?
                                              Just seen this now, decent winrate, if your gonna change anything make sure and do it slowly as you seem to be doing fine. You can loosen up way more in the co and button and also 3bet more from those also. Looks like you are only 3betting value hands from the co at the moment. Just open every button thats folded to you too at these stakes unless the blinds are somewhat 3bet happy and by that they'd want to be 3betting greater than 8% from the blinds before i'd start opening the button tighter.
                                              "Don't overcomplicate a straight forward game with mathematical bullshit and dicussing different lines with your geeky friends" Chris Olaafson

                                              Comment


                                                Originally posted by Line Us View Post
                                                Just seen this now, decent winrate, if your gonna change anything make sure and do it slowly as you seem to be doing fine. You can loosen up way more in the co and button and also 3bet more from those also. Looks like you are only 3betting value hands from the co at the moment. Just open every button thats folded to you too at these stakes unless the blinds are somewhat 3bet happy and by that they'd want to be 3betting greater than 8% from the blinds before i'd start opening the button tighter.
                                                good advice.

                                                The opening every button thing? I really dont know about that, Im playing 50nl at the moment and I swear to god, it seems like every second open from the CO/BTN is 3bet.

                                                Opening tighter is all you can really do as the regs will take a fair bit longer to adjust. Id open quite light against passive nits (which Im assuming Line Us thinks the regs are like at this level) but in reality, they are much more aggro than you'd expect.
                                                This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
                                                All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
                                                The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.

                                                Comment


                                                  4 bet them once to quiet them. Seriously

                                                  Comment


                                                    Originally posted by CaptainPlanet View Post
                                                    good advice.

                                                    The opening every button thing? I really dont know about that, Im playing 50nl at the moment and I swear to god, it seems like every second open from the CO/BTN is 3bet.

                                                    Opening tighter is all you can really do as the regs will take a fair bit longer to adjust. Id open quite light against passive nits (which Im assuming Line Us thinks the regs are like at this level) but in reality, they are much more aggro than you'd expect.
                                                    I'd be pretty sure that you should open every button at 50nl through 400nl thats folded to you until people really start to sdjust. At higher stakes I'd still try to open most if not all but the regs will adjust well, start 3betting a bit more obviously, calling more in the blinds and then opening up their donking/ checkraising / floating/calling down ranges etc. At lower stakes peoples adjustments are bascially "he keeps opening the button, I'm gonna 3bet him" which isnt actually a bad result, it gives you the choice to play a big pot in position if you want and alot of regs are pretty bad at playing in 3bet pots in the first place. I'm sure there are some decent regs at small stakes but I'd doubt any are going to be good enough to make it -ev to open any hand from the button, of course you will find times when you happen to have semi decent regs who have 3bets > than 8% from the blinds and you should start opening tighter but in general it wont be bad to just open without paying any attention to your cards until you get 3bet or see a flop.
                                                    "Don't overcomplicate a straight forward game with mathematical bullshit and dicussing different lines with your geeky friends" Chris Olaafson

                                                    Comment


                                                      Interesting situation.

                                                      Live 1/1/3 -

                                                      UTG goes all in blind for €20.
                                                      UTG + 1 laughs and ships it all in for €300
                                                      Button looks down and lets out a moan of pain and after much deliberation folds
                                                      Hero looks down at AQ sooooooooted in the big blind - have a stack of about 250?

                                                      call/fold?

                                                      do you feel lucky punk.

                                                      edit; my reads are everyone is terrible - its like the twilight zone with the standard being that of the 05-06 era
                                                      Last edited by Bubbleking; 23-04-10, 14:25.

                                                      Comment


                                                        Originally posted by bubbleking View Post
                                                        Interesting situation.

                                                        Live 1/1/3 -

                                                        UTG goes all in blind for €20.
                                                        UTG + 1 laughs and ships it all in for €300
                                                        Button looks down and lets out a moan of pain and after much deliberation folds
                                                        Hero looks down at AQ sooooooooted in the big blind - have a stack of about 250?

                                                        call/fold?

                                                        do you feel lucky punk.

                                                        edit; my reads are everyone is terrible - its like the twilight zone with the standard being that of the 05-06 era
                                                        very quick fold imo

                                                        Comment


                                                          Yeah I bin it too. No reason to get involved when you have nothing invested.

                                                          His shove for 300 though is hilarious, no matter what he has.

                                                          Comment


                                                            Yeah I was never calling really just thought Id ask if anyone else would.

                                                            Wish id called when the guy with the 300 stack flipped over A5 (claiming he only looked at 1)

                                                            Delighted I didnt call when two 5's hit the flop

                                                            stacked him later anyway when he got it all in drawing dead

                                                            Comment


                                                              spew or ok? I'm ahead of a lot of draws, and all their Aces that haven't paired.

                                                              Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                              Button ($11.02)
                                                              SB ($12.10)
                                                              BB ($18.98)
                                                              UTG ($12.46)
                                                              Hero (MP) ($51.60)
                                                              CO ($26.55)

                                                              Preflop: Hero is MP with K, A
                                                              UTG bets $0.75, Hero raises to $2.60, 4 folds, UTG calls $1.85

                                                              Flop: ($5.55) 3, J, Q (2 players)
                                                              UTG bets $9.86 (All-In), Hero calls $9.86

                                                              Turn: ($25.27) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

                                                              River: ($25.27) 10 (2 players, 1 all-in)

                                                              Total pot: $25.27 | Rake: $1.26

                                                              Comment


                                                                id fold emmet tbh - grumble a lot though

                                                                Comment


                                                                  Beyond standard?

                                                                  Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                  SB ($66.15)
                                                                  BB ($39.11)
                                                                  UTG ($25.57)
                                                                  MP ($17.85)
                                                                  Hero (CO) ($66.90)
                                                                  Button ($56.30)

                                                                  Preflop: Hero is CO with 10, 10
                                                                  UTG calls $0.25, MP calls $0.25, Hero bets $1.20, 1 fold, SB calls $1.10, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.95, 1 fold

                                                                  Flop: ($4.10) 5, 6, 2 (3 players)
                                                                  SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $3.30, SB calls $3.30, UTG raises to $24.37 (All-In), Hero folds, 1 fold

                                                                  Total pot: $14 | Rake: $0.70

                                                                  Results:
                                                                  UTG didn't show
                                                                  Outcome: UTG won $13.30

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    Originally posted by bubbleking View Post
                                                                    id fold emmet tbh - grumble a lot though
                                                                    this all day long. bitch and moan about donk shoving looneys and pray to stack him at a later stage to laugh at said loon
                                                                    Redbet at the Dublin Poker Invasion FTW

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      how did I do here?
                                                                      We are both deep

                                                                      Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                      CO ($12.50)
                                                                      Button ($86.36)
                                                                      SB ($27.13)
                                                                      BB ($83.74)
                                                                      UTG ($28.39)
                                                                      Hero (MP) ($63.64)

                                                                      Preflop: Hero is MP with 8, 7
                                                                      1 fold, Hero bets $0.80, 1 fold, Button calls $0.80, 2 folds

                                                                      Flop: ($1.95) Q, 6, J (2 players)
                                                                      Hero bets $1.60, Button raises to $3.75, Hero calls $2.15

                                                                      Turn: ($9.45) 5 (2 players)
                                                                      Hero checks, Button bets $5.25, Hero calls $5.25

                                                                      River: ($19.95) K (2 players)
                                                                      Hero checks, Button bets $14, Hero folds

                                                                      Total pot: $19.95 | Rake: $0.99

                                                                      Results:
                                                                      Button didn't show
                                                                      Outcome: Button won $18.96

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        Originally posted by emmet02 View Post
                                                                        how did I do here?
                                                                        We are both deep

                                                                        Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                        CO ($12.50)
                                                                        Button ($86.36)
                                                                        SB ($27.13)
                                                                        BB ($83.74)
                                                                        UTG ($28.39)
                                                                        Hero (MP) ($63.64)

                                                                        Preflop: Hero is MP with 8, 7
                                                                        1 fold, Hero bets $0.80, 1 fold, Button calls $0.80, 2 folds

                                                                        Flop: ($1.95) Q, 6, J (2 players)
                                                                        Hero bets $1.60, Button raises to $3.75, Hero calls $2.15

                                                                        Turn: ($9.45) 5 (2 players)
                                                                        Hero checks, Button bets $5.25, Hero calls $5.25

                                                                        River: ($19.95) K (2 players)
                                                                        Hero checks, Button bets $14, Hero folds

                                                                        Total pot: $19.95 | Rake: $0.99

                                                                        Results:
                                                                        Button didn't show
                                                                        Outcome: Button won $18.96
                                                                        Seems fine. Might be a pretty fun spot to jam river if he can fold hands, but he probably can't so wp.
                                                                        Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          Found myself agreeing with a lot of this post especially on overvaluing marginal hands after losing a big pot http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...Number=5471087

                                                                          Also lol at this post from a guy who would be beating 2kNL around a year later.

                                                                          matrix-
                                                                          I agree that buyin prerequisites do vary by the player. And you're totally right when you say that more is NEVER a problem.

                                                                          However, about 15 hands into my first go-round at 50NL, I had rebought in for about 25, and I had my stack up to nearly 100. I picked up 66, flop came down JT6... I got it all in vs. two opponents (one had TT and the other had KK and spiked a K on the river). The pot was about 260 bucks... far, far, far larger than anything I'd ever dealt with at 25NL. To have that happen was something I was totally unprepared for.

                                                                          In short, it really sucked.

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            Easy fold here? What about the flop call? Villian as a standard rush reg. I have ~200 hands on him. His fold to 3bet is 60%.

                                                                            Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                            UTG ($79.75)
                                                                            MP ($129.10)
                                                                            Hero (CO) ($53.30)
                                                                            Button ($30)
                                                                            SB ($87.10)
                                                                            BB ($51.40)

                                                                            Preflop: Hero is CO with Q, A
                                                                            1 fold, MP bets $1.75, Hero raises to $5.25, 3 folds, MP calls $3.50

                                                                            Flop: ($11.25) Q, 9, 5 (2 players)
                                                                            MP checks, Hero bets $6.25, MP raises to $16.25, Hero calls $10

                                                                            Turn: ($43.75) 8 (2 players)
                                                                            MP bets $107.60 (All-In), [color=#666666][i]Hero?
                                                                            "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              I am folding to flop C/R as I am a Rush Nit and dont stack off lightly.

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                Originally posted by emmet02 View Post
                                                                                I am folding to flop C/R as I am a Rush Nit and dont stack off lightly.
                                                                                I think this is a bluff or a draw often enough to make the call not so bad. A lot of players will make this 3bet and then check a dud turn card because they think they're beaten, but when he shoves I think this is always a set.
                                                                                "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  I'd be calling. 3b pot, not an enormous ft3b, TPTK, draws on board (although 2 of them got there). I'd bet a little less on the flop too.

                                                                                  I prefer a call/call to a flop jam too.
                                                                                  Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    What can I do in this situation? When it got to him in the SB, all I could think was "thats a great spot for you to pull the trigger".

                                                                                    He is a competent player, and could be doing it with ATC, but is folding and "nh" the only thing I can do in this situation?

                                                                                    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                                    CO ($25.70)
                                                                                    Button ($54.46)
                                                                                    SB ($71.66)
                                                                                    BB ($14.94)
                                                                                    Hero (UTG) ($66.27)
                                                                                    MP ($22.72)

                                                                                    Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, K
                                                                                    Hero bets $0.80, MP calls $0.80, CO calls $0.80, Button calls $0.80, SB raises to $6, 5 folds

                                                                                    Total pot: $4.25 | Rake: $0

                                                                                    Results:
                                                                                    SB didn't show
                                                                                    Outcome: SB won $4.25

                                                                                    VPIP: 21 PFR: 17 STL: 38 3BT: 4
                                                                                    AGGF: 3.64 CBET: 62 F2CBET: 33 Hands: 453

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      Originally posted by emmet02 View Post
                                                                                      What can I do in this situation? When it got to him in the SB, all I could think was "thats a great spot for you to pull the trigger".

                                                                                      He is a competent player, and could be doing it with ATC, but is folding and "nh" the only thing I can do in this situation?

                                                                                      Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                                      CO ($25.70)
                                                                                      Button ($54.46)
                                                                                      SB ($71.66)
                                                                                      BB ($14.94)
                                                                                      Hero (UTG) ($66.27)
                                                                                      MP ($22.72)

                                                                                      Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, K
                                                                                      Hero bets $0.80, MP calls $0.80, CO calls $0.80, Button calls $0.80, SB raises to $6, 5 folds

                                                                                      Total pot: $4.25 | Rake: $0

                                                                                      Results:
                                                                                      SB didn't show
                                                                                      Outcome: SB won $4.25
                                                                                      Ye just fold. Thats an absurdly large 3bet and a 3bet of 4% is tight enough.
                                                                                      Also, didnt you post that you play like 17/13? You're prob not opening very wide UTG so in fact with his sizing he's prob losing money coz he needs it to work so often and you're gonna be 4bet/jamming pretty often anyway.
                                                                                      Also he's not bluffing.

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        Its Rush poker, so he has no idea I am a nit, especially not by position, stats above are the only stats he could possibly have to hand at the time of the 3bet.

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                          Originally posted by emmet02 View Post
                                                                                          Its Rush poker, so he has no idea I am a nit, especially not by position, stats above are the only stats he could possibly have to hand at the time of the 3bet.
                                                                                          Nah, i'm not saying he knows you are tight (which would make him less likely to 3bet your utg raise light i think?). The fact is you are tight, which means you'll have a bunch of stronger hands here most of the time so you don't need to bother defending in this situation to that sizing with this hand.

                                                                                          Him not knowing this is irrelevant to you making money in the long run. In fact him not knowing this is good for you if he is bluffing.

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                            ah yes, makes far more sense to me know. Appreciate it.

                                                                                            Also, is this standard?

                                                                                            I have run into sets too many times to count this week, volume can be a bitch sometimes.

                                                                                            Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                                            UTG ($39.49)
                                                                                            MP ($50.44)
                                                                                            CO ($25)
                                                                                            Button ($12.85)
                                                                                            Hero (SB) ($25.26)
                                                                                            BB ($20)

                                                                                            Preflop: Hero is SB with 10, 9
                                                                                            UTG bets $1, 1 fold, CO calls $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.90, 1 fold

                                                                                            Flop: ($3.25) 8, 3, 7 (3 players)
                                                                                            Hero checks, UTG bets $2.25, CO calls $2.25, Hero raises to $9.80, 1 fold, CO raises to $24 (All-In), Hero calls $14.20

                                                                                            Turn: ($53.50) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

                                                                                            River: ($53.50) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

                                                                                            Total pot: $53.50 | Rake: $2.67

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                              Originally posted by emmet02 View Post
                                                                                              ah yes, makes far more sense to me know. Appreciate it.

                                                                                              Also, is this standard?

                                                                                              I have run into sets too many times to count this week, volume can be a bitch sometimes.

                                                                                              Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                                              UTG ($39.49)
                                                                                              MP ($50.44)
                                                                                              CO ($25)
                                                                                              Button ($12.85)
                                                                                              Hero (SB) ($25.26)
                                                                                              BB ($20)

                                                                                              Preflop: Hero is SB with 10, 9
                                                                                              UTG bets $1, 1 fold, CO calls $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.90, 1 fold

                                                                                              Flop: ($3.25) 8, 3, 7 (3 players)
                                                                                              Hero checks, UTG bets $2.25, CO calls $2.25, Hero raises to $9.80, 1 fold, CO raises to $24 (All-In), Hero calls $14.20

                                                                                              Turn: ($53.50) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

                                                                                              River: ($53.50) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

                                                                                              Total pot: $53.50 | Rake: $2.67
                                                                                              utterly standard, nh.

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                Sweating a friend of mine.

                                                                                                No stats, but villain seems pretty taggy, hasn't got out of line much, but has been a li

                                                                                                10c/20c 6max

                                                                                                Eff. Stacks 103bb

                                                                                                Hero is UTG+1

                                                                                                Dealt to Hero: AsAd

                                                                                                1 fold, Hero raises to 70c, Villain raises to €2.20, 3 folds, Hero raises to €4.80, Villain calls.

                                                                                                Flop: QcJc5h

                                                                                                Hero bets €3
                                                                                                Villain calls

                                                                                                Turn: Td

                                                                                                Check
                                                                                                Check

                                                                                                River: 8s

                                                                                                Hero checks
                                                                                                Villain bets €7.75
                                                                                                Hero folds.

                                                                                                Fine? Think the 4b might be a bit small I guess 4bs are called a lot more at this level. Thoughts on flop bet and turn/river line?
                                                                                                Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                  Whats my shoving range here. Pot is huge already

                                                                                                  Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                                                  Hero (UTG) ($62.61)
                                                                                                  MP ($20.65)
                                                                                                  CO ($25.39)
                                                                                                  Button ($28.50)
                                                                                                  SB ($13.14)
                                                                                                  BB ($21.97)

                                                                                                  Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, A
                                                                                                  Hero bets $0.90, MP calls $0.90, 1 fold, Button raises to $3.95, SB calls $3.85, BB calls $3.70, Hero clicks Time, strokes his chin and opens General Poker Thread to post query


                                                                                                  SPOILER
                                                                                                  1 fold, MP calls $3.05

                                                                                                  Flop: ($16.70) 5, 6, J (4 players)
                                                                                                  SB bets $9.19 (All-In), 2 folds, Button calls $9.19

                                                                                                  Turn: ($35.08) 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)

                                                                                                  River: ($35.08) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

                                                                                                  Total pot: $35.08 | Rake: $1.75

                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                    Conor, 4bet is too small. 5.20/5.40 is where it needs to be OOP.

                                                                                                    What were the reads on the player, seems to have been cut off as you posted?

                                                                                                    I am definitely betting flop. AQ+ is in his range at this level, as well as TT and 99 (not so much).

                                                                                                    People love calling c-bets with underpairs in 4bet pots at these stakes. "I put him on AK and there is no A or K on the flop". I think the c-bet is too small for this reason too.

                                                                                                    Definitely interesting spot though. I would more than struggle to fold river though.

                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                      Originally posted by emmet02 View Post
                                                                                                      Conor, 4bet is too small. 5.20/5.40 is where it needs to be OOP.

                                                                                                      What were the reads on the player, seems to have been cut off as you posted?

                                                                                                      I am definitely betting flop. AQ+ is in his range at this level, as well as TT and 99 (not so much).

                                                                                                      People love calling c-bets with underpairs in 4bet pots at these stakes. "I put him on AK and there is no A or K on the flop". I think the c-bet is too small for this reason too.

                                                                                                      Definitely interesting spot though. I would more than struggle to fold river though.
                                                                                                      He bet the flop.

                                                                                                      Otherwise yeah its fine. River fold will be questioned a lot I guess and I think folding is actually prob best but in real time Id prob call.

                                                                                                      If he is in anyway a competent hand reader this is never a bluff.

                                                                                                      Also, people dont call 4bets very often at that level, its very rare. The 4bet size obviously means he can prob call a bit wider, lots of big aces, broadways and pairs 1010+.
                                                                                                      This may or may not be an original thought of my own.
                                                                                                      All efforts were made to make this thought original but with the abundance of thoughts in the world the originality of this thought cannot be guaranteed.
                                                                                                      The author is not liable for any issue arising from the platitudinous nature of this post.

                                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                                        I know I have put too many hands up in the last few days, but there are just a few that have me thinking more and more now. Especially ones with overbetting / limp reraising.

                                                                                                        Basically I am trying to figure out decent ranges vs goofs.

                                                                                                        This hand just came up. I think that this might have been a call. Am I nuts?

                                                                                                        Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                                                        UTG ($9.25)
                                                                                                        MP ($18.41)
                                                                                                        CO ($26.53)
                                                                                                        Button ($25.10)
                                                                                                        Hero (SB) ($47.26)
                                                                                                        BB ($45.69)

                                                                                                        Preflop: Hero is SB with 5, 5
                                                                                                        UTG calls $0.25, MP calls $0.25, 1 fold, Button bets $1.35, Hero calls $1.25, BB calls $1.10, UTG raises to $9.25 (All-In), 4 folds

                                                                                                        Total pot: $5.65 | Rake: $0

                                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                                          Originally posted by CaptainPlanet View Post
                                                                                                          He bet the flop.
                                                                                                          I can read Steve.

                                                                                                          Conor asked for comments on the flop bet too.

                                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                                            Originally posted by emmet02 View Post
                                                                                                            I can read Steve.

                                                                                                            Conor asked for comments on the flop bet too.
                                                                                                            More on the sizing of the flop bet, cos I think its a pretty clear bet.

                                                                                                            Preflop is definitely too small. Its postflop where it gets tricky though. Its not like making it 2bb less preflop is a huge leak here. Huge potential leakage in this hand postflop though, and I am in two minds about lots of it.
                                                                                                            Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                                              Id be 4betting to 5.10 max but i think 4.80 is ok.
                                                                                                              Flop cbet is way too small, id be betting 5.90 and jamming pretty much every turn.

                                                                                                              The 55 hand is a definite fold, especially at Rush, anytime i see a limp re-raise utg its always the goods.
                                                                                                              Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                                                                                                              I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                                                                                                              None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                                Brag, but relevant to TommyGunnes post.

                                                                                                                He obviously put me on AK when I 4bet

                                                                                                                Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                                                                Button ($24.75)
                                                                                                                SB ($11.74)
                                                                                                                BB ($10.58)
                                                                                                                Hero (UTG) ($43.32)
                                                                                                                MP ($26.11)
                                                                                                                CO ($26.17)

                                                                                                                Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, A
                                                                                                                Hero bets $0.80, 2 folds, Button raises to $2.75, 2 folds, Hero raises to $7, Button calls $4.25

                                                                                                                Flop: ($14.35) Q, 4, 9 (2 players)
                                                                                                                Hero bets $18, Button calls $17.75 (All-In)

                                                                                                                Turn: ($49.85) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

                                                                                                                River: ($49.85) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

                                                                                                                Total pot: $49.85 | Rake: $2.49

                                                                                                                Results:
                                                                                                                Button had 7, 7 (one pair, sevens).
                                                                                                                Hero had A, A (one pair, Aces).
                                                                                                                Outcome: Hero won $47.36

                                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Starvin Marvin View Post
                                                                                                                  The 55 hand is a definite fold, especially at Rush, anytime i see a limp re-raise utg its always the goods.
                                                                                                                  Yeah this is always a monster.
                                                                                                                  "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                                    I only need something like 36% to call though with the size of the pot. If BB wasn't still to act there is a chance I would call.

                                                                                                                    Using Holdem Vision to see the limp reraises at 25nl, it has predominantely been AA and KK, but there is a lot of AJo+ there too.

                                                                                                                    I cant do a weighted range in pokerstove, but I think that its kind of close. Just an interesting spot I think.

                                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                                      Originally posted by emmet02 View Post
                                                                                                                      I cant do a weighted range in pokerstove
                                                                                                                      You did Ec & Fi in college?

                                                                                                                      And you got accepted into loads of awesome masters courses?



                                                                                                                      Ah no its actually easy enough. You have a choice of either only using specific combos of each hand in order to approximate the ratios (ie AA,KsKc,KsKh,KsKd,KcKh,KcKd,AhJs might be one possible way of doing it.) If you want to be a bit more accurate, just get your EV for each hand individually, store it elsewhere (ie excel) and multiply each EV by its weighting.

                                                                                                                      Do beware that the ranges HEM give you will not be all that accurate, cos firstly its a lrai rather than a lr, and secondly you should kinda filter by his stack size. Basically, you won't have a sufficient sample size to do that though.
                                                                                                                      Last edited by TommyGunne; 28-04-10, 22:46.
                                                                                                                      Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                                                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                                                        Originally posted by TommyGunne View Post
                                                                                                                        You did Ec & Fi in college?

                                                                                                                        And you got accepted into loads of awesome masters courses?

                                                                                                                        I slept out the pokerstove lecture unfortunately.

                                                                                                                        Didnt think you could weight a range though, thought it spread it fairly evenly. Like obviously he is doing this with AA more than twice as much as he is doing it with A9, but having them both in his range will assign them equal weights in pokerstove?

                                                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                                                          Originally posted by emmet02 View Post
                                                                                                                          I slept out the pokerstove lecture unfortunately.

                                                                                                                          Didnt think you could weight a range though, thought it spread it fairly evenly. Like obviously he is doing this with AA more than twice as much as he is doing it with A9, but having them both in his range will assign them equal weights in pokerstove?
                                                                                                                          I edited it to explain before I saw your post.
                                                                                                                          Foldaramus et foldarabimus

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