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    Disqualification from tournament

    I'm just wondering what can lead to a player being disqualified from a tournament?

    I have never seen a player taken out of a game in about 6 years of playing, nor have I ever witnessed anything that I thought should result in this until the weekend just gone. I'm just wondering does it ever happen and if so what kind of behaviour warrants this?

    Obviously cheating or assaulting somebody goes without saying?

    #2
    40% of Irish players should be disqualified every time they come back from the jacks.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Anon1234567 View Post
      I'm just wondering what can lead to a player being disqualified from a tournamepeople that wre never seen a player taken out of a game in about 6 years of playing, nor have I ever witnessed anything that I thought should result in this until the weekend just gone. I'm just wondering does it ever happen and if so what kind of behaviour warrants this?

      Obviously cheating or assaulting somebody goes without saying?
      Bloke at the Carlton the weekend was lucky to stay in the tourney, was a disgrace the way he carried on, was an excellent atmosphere all through the tourney till he kicked off. Was at the other table when it happened and we were having a great bit craic, would have hated to be at that table with that carry on.
      Im guessing this is the reason for the post?
      I know some of the circumstances but not all so won't comment any further yet
      The smarter you play the luckier you'll be
      MTT Calender 2015

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Nuttkickker View Post
        I know some of the circumstances but not all so won't comment any further yet
        ah go on

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Dice75 View Post
          40% of Irish players should be disqualified every time they come back from the jacks.
          I always wash but sometimes I have a dilemma about whether to dry or not? It's like I'm certain I'm going to miss a hand if I don't, and there's no hygiene implication for other players but if the cards are wet or they see me wiping my hands on my trousers while rushing back they'll think I'm a minger

          what is +EV here dice?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by 8611 View Post
            I always wash but sometimes I have a dilemma about whether to dry or not? It's like I'm certain I'm going to miss a hand if I don't, and there's no hygiene implication for other players but if the cards are wet or they see me wiping my hands on my trousers while rushing back they'll think I'm a minger

            what is +EV here dice?
            Hire a butler to stand beside you with a towel at all times

            Comment


              #7
              if the sporting was run correctly that's what I'd expect

              Comment


                #8
                40% of Irish players should be disqualified every time they come back from the jacks.
                Personally I think all operators should be required to provide rubber gloves and surgical masks free of charge to all players.

                Bloke at the Carlton the weekend was lucky to stay in the tourney, was a disgrace the way he carried on, was an excellent atmosphere all through the tourney till he kicked off. Was at the other table when it happened and we were having a great bit craic, would have hated to be at that table with that carry on.
                Im guessing this is the reason for the post?
                I know some of the circumstances but not all so won't comment any further yet
                You guessed right but I'm not sure what the rules are about divulging the details of this sort of stuff on here is? (Mods?)

                All I'll say for now is that I was totally shocked that this player wasn't tossed and barred from all LS events in the future.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Anon1234567 View Post
                  You guessed right but I'm not sure what the rules are about divulging the details of this sort of stuff on here is? (Mods?)
                  Yes it's fine, go ahead.
                  Official Head Marshall of Waterford Gay Pride Festival 2015

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Icarus152 View Post
                    Yes it's fine, go ahead.
                    +1, just don't name any names

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Pm me the name and I'll circulate it on my mailing list.
                      Official Head Marshall of Waterford Gay Pride Festival 2015

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Ok. Final 2 tables of the LS Summer Deepstack with about 13 players left.

                        As has been mentioned there were a number of penalties issued for leaving the table out of turn. (Let me stress this is not the player that came in 2nd although he did receive this penalty a number of times, don't wanna tarnish his reputation because he is a nice enough chap)

                        The player in question was drunk, loud and behaving in a pretty annoying fashion not to mention slowing the game down with his antics. At one point he hopped up from the table and marched off to have a smoke or something out of turn. Upon his return one of the TDs came over to inform him he was going to receive a 1 round penalty for this. At first the player tried to laugh it off like it was a joke but when he realised it wasn't he became abusive to the TD telling him 'he knew where he lived' asking if his 'dog was any good at putting out fires'. When Larry came over to intervene he told Larry to get the 1st TD away from him before he 'took his head off' or something to that effect. Larry took him aside and managed to calm him down and at the end of the penalty he was returned to the table, but after only about 30 seconds he erupted again shouting that he couldn't concentrate now and throwing his chair to the floor he jumped up from the table and stormed off.

                        Eventually he was calmed down and returned to the table where he was allowed to continue to play until busting out.

                        So what do you guys think? I said nothing at the time because I just wanted to keep my head down, play my game and not get involved. The more I think about it though the more disgusted I am that he was let off with this carry on, and I'm not the only one speaking to several other players most agreed and one or 2 said they wouldn't be coming back next year because of it. My opinion is that it is terrible for the game and it is very bad for an operator to be willing to tolerate this sort of behaviour, both for their own reputation and for the integrity of the game in general.
                        Last edited by Anon1234567; 26-08-13, 20:36.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          P.S

                          I would like to stress that apart from this incident the event was run exceptionally well from what I saw, especially given the scale and the fact it was only 120€ tournament. I know it must be tough to make these rulings after 17hrs hard graft.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I think this kind of shiite happens at games when people are boozing all day unfortunately. I assume Larry knew him and knew it was out of character and due to drink and that's why he wasn't plain fucked out. He'd be plain fucked out of any game I was involved in but running poker games ain't my line of work so that's easy for me to say. Maybe if he was fucked out he would have gotten worse, gardai would have been called, leading to problems with venue and possibly even the event in the first place, still a bit of a grey area.

                            What was this lad wearing incidentally?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by 8611 View Post
                              I think this kind of shiite happens at games when people are boozing all day unfortunately. I assume Larry knew him and knew it was out of character and due to drink and that's why he wasn't plain fucked out. He'd be plain fucked out of any game I was involved in but running poker games ain't my line of work so that's easy for me to say. Maybe if he was fucked out he would have gotten worse, gardai would have been called, leading to problems with venue and possibly even the event in the first place, still a bit of a grey area.

                              What was this lad wearing incidentally?
                              They should have been called anyway after he started making pretty serious threats

                              'he knew where he lived' asking if his 'dog was any good at putting out fires'

                              Comment


                                #16
                                This was ridiculous lad should have been thrown out no question.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  This is an extremely difficult situation for any operator.

                                  Firstly if they know the person in question sometimes they will be a little more lenient in the hope they can diffuse the situation. This means it will carry on a little longer.

                                  If it comes to either giving them a penalty or actually disqualifying them the proverbial can then hit the fan. More often than not a row will break out. How serious will that turn out? How many will get involved?

                                  The ideal would be for the operator or hotel to have security available and make your decision and then get security to deal with it & remove the aggressive player. This is of course an added expense on the day but well worth it if there is drink available.

                                  The very last thing any operator will want to do is to call the Gardai and bring attention to the event which still can be considered a grey area especially if cash tables are running.

                                  Horrible situation but it looks like they got the best solution.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by kakak1 View Post
                                    This is an extremely difficult situation for any operator.
                                    Nothing difficult about it. If the guy was engaging in threatening and abusive behaviour then you call the Guards to deal with him.
                                    Turning millions into thousands

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                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post
                                      Nothing difficult about it.
                                      And what if the cops come and confiscate the prize pool? And tell your man they're going to stop him running games in future? Or the local superintendent decides to start making an issue about these games in general or agitating for something to be done about them on a national level?

                                      I've no doubt your man deserted to have the cops called and deserted to be brought to book about it but it's not always the best way of dealing with things.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post
                                        Nothing difficult about it. If the guy was engaging in threatening and abusive behaviour then you call the Guards to deal with him.

                                        If only life was as easy as this Tony.

                                        Try getting the Guards on a Saturday night before a possible war has broken out. I'd say it could take anything up to an hour to get them.

                                        What does an operator do while waiting for the Guards for a player who refuses to leave the game and wants to take on all and sundry. Does he stop the clock? Does he just suspend play at that table? So saying "nothing difficult about it" is wrong.

                                        Calling the Guards should be a last resort and depending on the night you might have to call them more than once, I've certainly seen many arguments at poker tables mostly caused by excessive alcohol intake. You never know how a situation is going to pan out and as an operator you do whats best to restore order.

                                        In my opinion security needs to be employed for big events when alcohol is available.

                                        Also as mentioned above "gambling" in cash games in a hotel is a very grey area and games have in the past been stopped by the Guards.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          True, the reality is that you are unlikely to get a Guard until there is already blood spilled but the point is that the behaviour as outlined is well across the line of what is acceptable and operators have a duty to protect their customers.

                                          You are probably right that there would be some reluctance on the part of organisers to involve the Gardaí and with the absence of professional security there is an accident waiting to happen.

                                          I don't know if it is just me but I have noticed more of this kind of messiness at festivals in recent times.
                                          Last edited by Strewelpeter; 27-08-13, 10:27.
                                          Turning millions into thousands

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                                            #22
                                            Best way to lead with this is to try talk to the player in question and claim him/her down.

                                            A very drunk player will normally not list to reason from a TD and sometimes it requires help from the players friend.

                                            I had a three similar situations happen to me over the years.

                                            The 1st happened many years ago now at a hotel game with a player who was a regular player at the time. He was playing in a side game while the final table of the main event was on.

                                            I gave him 2 warning and then a penalty. I spoke to him during the penalty and told him, he would be disqualified if his behaviour continued on return to the table. He wasn't back 2 mins before he kicked off again. So I disqualified him from the tournament.

                                            He jumped up from his table and head butted and get a few punches in. As the operator of the event I was in an impossible situation as I couldn't even hit him back and just held on to him and tried to throw him out. He broke free and went on like a lunatic for the next 10 mins and tried kicking over the final table. I eventually got him out and waited on the police.

                                            The 2nd happened at a pub game a few years ago when an 6'4" ex-army threaten on of my dealers (most of you will know him a Tag, Ciaran Taggart. He's 5 foot nothing and weights about 8 stone and was 18 at the time). Again i disqualified the player only for him t return at the end of the night when I was packing up and on my own.

                                            He wrecked my van and smashed a chair over my head!
                                            Police were rang and arrived long after he left.

                                            The 3rd time was at EPT Barcelona when a Russian player tried to piss on Jason Mericer. Everything that followed was said in Russian but his hand gestures suggested he was going to have me killed.

                                            Moral of the story? Dealing with drunk people is never easy and it is always much better to try defuse the situation. While I agree with ringing the police, what happens while your waiting for them to arrive?
                                            Last edited by JP Poker; 27-08-13, 12:24.
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                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by JP Poker View Post
                                              Best way to lead with this is to try talk to the player in question and claim him/her down.

                                              A very drunk player will normally not list to reason from a TD and sometimes it requires help from the players friend.

                                              I had a three similar situations happen to me over the years.

                                              The 1st happened many years ago now at a hotel game with a player who was a regular player at the time. He was playing in a side game while the final table of the main event was on.

                                              I gave him 2 warning and then a penalty. I spoke to him during the penalty and told him, he would be disqualified if his behaviour continued on return to the table. He wasn't back 2 mins before he kicked off again. So I disqualified him from the tournament.

                                              He jumped up from his table and head butted and get a few punches in. As the operator of the event I was in an impossible situation as I couldn't even hit him back and just held on to him and tried to throw him out. He broke free and went on like a lunatic for the next 10 mins and tried kicking over the final table. I eventually got him out and waited on the police.

                                              The 2nd happened at a pub game a few years ago when an 6'4" ex-army threaten on of my dealers (most of you will know him a Tag, Ciaran Taggart. He's 5 foot nothing and weights about 8 stone and was 18 at the time). Again i disqualified the player only for him t return at the end of the night when I was packing up and on my own.

                                              He wrecked my van and smashed a chair over my head!
                                              Police were rang and arrived long after he left.


                                              The 3rd time was at EPT Barcelona when a Russian player tried to piss on Jason Mericer. Everything that followed was said in Russian but his hand gestures suggested he was going to have me killed.

                                              Moral of the story? Dealing with drunk people is never easy and it is always much better to try defuse the situation. While I agree with ringing the police, what happens while your waiting for them to arrive?
                                              Friend of mine working in a Russian casino had to remove a guy like this.

                                              they used to make them leave their guns in reception, for safety.
                                              Except when you throw out a punter they had to give the gun back.
                                              So when the guy got his gun back he shot the TD in the leg.
                                              luckily is was a small calibre, and only an ankle graze but he shit himself nonetheless.

                                              It's a gas job we have sometimes.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Anon1234567 View Post
                                                I'm just wondering what can lead to a player being disqualified from a tournament?
                                                Pinching a waitresses arse apparantly..

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by iSnow View Post
                                                  Pinching a waitresses arse apparantly..

                                                  wrong

                                                  It's pinching a dealers arse, especially when both are male

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Player in question should not have had an issue with the penalty as he had recieved at least 1 warning previously and another player had recieved at least 1 penalty for the same offence. I got up during a hand to make a phone call and was told by the dealer of the rule, no problem made sure i didnt do it again.

                                                    Did he deserve to be thrown out? yes without doubt, everybody knows that but it was not quite that simple. i have seen players being aggressive and/or drunk before but this was on another level. I have no doubts that throwing him out would have escalated what was already a pretty volatile situation and who knows how it would have ended. It doesnt mean it was ok or acceptable for his behaviour but i don't see how else it could have been resolved peacefully. Could easily have ended like the situation JP described in previous post which nobody wants.

                                                    Both TD's handled thamselves and the situation very well in difficult circumstances and i dont think anyone can question either them or their reputations for not throwing out such an abusive player. larry managed to calm the player down and after been taken outside the second time i don't think there was an issue. He was even refused entry into a cash game after his elimination which was a wise decision.
                                                    Player was 100% at fault and hope he has the decency to give proper apoligies to those involved
                                                    The smarter you play the luckier you'll be
                                                    MTT Calender 2015

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by JP Poker View Post
                                                      Best way to lead with this is to try talk to the player in question and claim him/her down.

                                                      A very drunk player will normally not list to reason from a TD and sometimes it requires help from the players friend.

                                                      I had a three similar situations happen to me over the years.

                                                      The 1st happened many years ago now at a hotel game with a player who was a regular player at the time. He was playing in a side game while the final table of the main event was on.

                                                      I gave him 2 warning and then a penalty. I spoke to him during the penalty and told him, he would be disqualified if his behaviour continued on return to the table. He wasn't back 2 mins before he kicked off again. So I disqualified him from the tournament.

                                                      He jumped up from his table and head butted and get a few punches in. As the operator of the event I was in an impossible situation as I couldn't even hit him back and just held on to him and tried to throw him out. He broke free and went on like a lunatic for the next 10 mins and tried kicking over the final table. I eventually got him out and waited on the police.

                                                      The 2nd happened at a pub game a few years ago when an 6'4" ex-army threaten on of my dealers (most of you will know him a Tag, Ciaran Taggart. He's 5 foot nothing and weights about 8 stone and was 18 at the time). Again i disqualified the player only for him t return at the end of the night when I was packing up and on my own.

                                                      He wrecked my van and smashed a chair over my head!
                                                      Police were rang and arrived long after he left.

                                                      The 3rd time was at EPT Barcelona when a Russian player tried to piss on Jason Mericer. Everything that followed was said in Russian but his hand gestures suggested he was going to have me killed.

                                                      Moral of the story? Dealing with drunk people is never easy and it is always much better to try defuse the situation. While I agree with ringing the police, what happens while your waiting for them to arrive?
                                                      Phew , thank god i didn't make the top 3

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by DAMO72 View Post
                                                        Phew , thank god i didn't make the top 3
                                                        Masters 2009? I thought you were the cabaret act

                                                        Originally posted by JP Poker View Post
                                                        Russian player tried to piss on Jason Mericer.
                                                        Sorry, that's funny shit.

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by DAMO72 View Post
                                                          Phew , thank god i didn't make the top 3
                                                          Lol..

                                                          Only because I was talking about drunk players. You kick off sober
                                                          €10,000 GTD New Monthly Tournament
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                                                            #30
                                                            Hi Guys ,

                                                            Sorry for the late involvement just browsing on ipb while came across with this thread ...

                                                            Let me put my two cents to this scenario and my opinion about this horrible situation .

                                                            So we all know that this guy was misbehaving inappropriately before he got the penalty as he folded out of turn and just left the table , when he was given a full round penalty he kicked off . Which was absolutely out of order and he started to threatening my TD assistant , this is when I got called over to evaluate the situation .

                                                            As soon as I got called to the table I knew exactly who and what I was dealing with ....

                                                            About this player :


                                                            -this guy is only a novice player who did never played a descent tourney where actually penalties were issued and in forced and I don't even think he understood in his state why he received the penalty .

                                                            -he played the odd time in my previous club with his very best mate usually at weekend nights after clubbing hours wondering up for a bit of cash game fairly drunk .

                                                            -I known him pretty well he also knew me ...... so i knew ( off course you can never be careful enough and never can be 100% sure ! always expect the unexpected! ) that this guy isn't really a threat to my players safety or to any member of staff as long as I am handling this situation in a right way and manner ! I also knew out of experience of many years of weekend drunk cash games management that gambling and alcohol and players behavior can change with in a split of a second and can turn very nasty so I need it to be extremely careful with my further actions .

                                                            -After consulting with my TD assistant I found out that he has threatened him and he was extremely abusive towards him in that minute while this player on penalty just after he hopped off from his chair and pushing his chair behind with significant force of power trough his chair behind with his legs the chair was't really flying ... I have asked him to come off side with me to have a chat .

                                                            While outside after calming him down ,first of all I have explained to him the Penalty Rule and that the TD did nothing wrong , after that I have told him that in any other circumstances he would be removed from the tournament immediately for threatening a member of staff or player at any event tournament etc... and his behavior will not be tolerated, however taking in consideration all the reasons above I told him I let him back in to continue his play with two conditions .

                                                            1. He apologizes to the Assistant TD and the players at the table .

                                                            2. Any further misbehavior he is out on the spot and eliminated from the Tournament .

                                                            After this he was let back in to continue his play and there was no further incident however the damage was done already it was enough to ruin my joy and players great banter and atmosphere as everyone felt the nervousness in the air .

                                                            Why did I make this decision ?

                                                            I valuated the situation with in few minutes which I had for my decision to try to take control of the situation before escalating after 21 hours of work at this stage .

                                                            -If I disqualify him i could of cause A lot bigger problem as he was on the edge as I measured his determination and the last thing I wanted physical involvement between myself and this guy or blood boxing match ( as this guy isn't an easy knock out dude ) between the security and this guy in the middle of the Room ..... Don't forget his very best mate was at the cash table just as drunk as he was so he wouldn't just watch his mate been dragged trough the floor ! he would of jump in which would lead to a bigger chaos. MOST IMPORTANTLY MY NO 1 PRIORITY WAS I DID NOT WANT ANY HORRIFIC VISUAL MEMORIES IN MY PLAYERS MIND AFTER THE EVENT AS THAT WOULD OF SEALED MY HARD WORK AND TOTALLY RUIN THE GAME !(just think about it what kind of finale that would of lead to after a serious fight taking place between few 14 stone lads just before the final table well in my opinion a lot worse than it was )

                                                            -If I let him back in after with the conditions I gave him hoping to bust as soon as possible( I would never say this in any other circumstances of any player ) giving him plenty of water and standing over him all the way until his exit I have better chance to save the game be on top of things assure some sort of security other than take on the risk factor mentioned above if I disqualify him .


                                                            It was a horrible experience and it was hard to deal with ....at the end of the day I had to do what it felt is the most appropriate thing to do at that moment .

                                                            I am very sorry to all players involved and players should never witness a similar incident in any of these events as we operators working so hard to please every player and to provide a great service !

                                                            BTW This Guy is barred from all my events and further on I may contact other operators to do the same as there is no room in this community for this kind of people .

                                                            I am writing this post pretty late very tired I am so apologies for my grammar and English ...... at the end of the day I am a Hungarian Foreign lad who could not speak a word of English 14 years ago lol


                                                            Thank You all

                                                            Larry Santo
                                                            Last edited by LS Events & Promotions; 10-09-13, 04:33.
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                                                              #31
                                                              These situations are never easy. You have to take a step back and think before you act. You have to look at the bigger picture. You did all of this Larry. I think you handled the situation very well. It could have been an awful lot worse if you hadn't contained it like you did. Well played.

                                                              Comment


                                                                #32
                                                                As I said before you's handled a difficult situation very well and I don't think there is anything you should have done differently, glad to see you have barred him from future events too
                                                                The smarter you play the luckier you'll be
                                                                MTT Calender 2015

                                                                Comment


                                                                  #33
                                                                  Just had an idea. 1 round penalty is too harsh in these guys minds so we need to adapt the 1 round 'penalty' in name and application. Firstly the word penalty is too harsh for them at the time and only angers them more so should be replaced with something like 'infraction' as its less harsh sounding to the player. They wont feel as reprimanded with hearing infraction as they would 1rd penalty.

                                                                  Im suggesting an infraction means they don't miss a hand at all. Instead a 1rd infraction means they rejoin the table for a 1 round all in or fold only option for that round. This way they get to play every hand if they wish but only to go all in or fold. And you know they're usually going all in pref-flop at least once during that round. Some may choose to fold for the round and a round of this reflection may sometimes be enough for them to calm down more and see reason a bit better.

                                                                  The players at the table might get the advantage of binking aces or kings if the player decides to go all in in a blind rage with rags.

                                                                  Of course the whole circus of him with this all in or fold only situation can make him think the table think hes a comedian all of a sudden and he actually feels he can drive this silly infraction to his advantage and dog someone(sometimes he will!). The whole thing could actually get him back onside automatically.

                                                                  Might be interesting to see someone give it a trial.
                                                                  Last edited by rounders123; 10-09-13, 21:39.

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    #34
                                                                    Can't really see this working and it could potentially alter the outcome of hands involving others at the table. Supposing it was early and players were 100-200 bb deep and player shoves say ak with 1 or more other players having genuine hands, imaginge losing a flip and busting in hand u might not have lost more than a few hundred in normal circumstances
                                                                    The smarter you play the luckier you'll be
                                                                    MTT Calender 2015

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                                                                      #35
                                                                      works perfectly until the piss head binks trips from his enforced preflop all in with 72o and cracks aces. Now you have 2 pissed off punters and a drunk with more chips.

                                                                      The reason the 1 round penalty is away from the table is so that the player can no longer affect the game. forcing someone to go all in an effort to deliberately eliminate them will always have a bad outcome.

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