Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Killarney ruling2

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Killarney ruling2

    Here is one for you

    im on SB and recieve my 2 card which i grab and put 2 cards together and put a chip on them as i always do without looking at them. by the time i do this and have quick look around the table a 3rd card lands infront of me with the corner of the 3rd card touching my 2 cards with a marker on them. i instantly say to the dealer that you have given me a 3rd card.........by this time UG + 2 players have already started to muck cards

    what would be the ruling be here

    points to note

    1. dealer button had not recieved her 2nd card but UG had already mucked
    2. no action has taken place i.e. limp or bet
    3. my original 2 cards are marked
    4. i inform the dealer just as the 3 cards hits my cards

    #2
    Just for the sake of clarity as I don't really have an interest with regards the ruling..

    How have you received a 3rd card yet the btn has only received 1 card? Is it just that the btn's card has been dealt to you instead of her?
    Pining for Wa'erford

    Comment


      #3
      If the situation is as described, just give the 3rd card to the button, play on. However, if the dealer cannot be certain that the 3rd card is that card, or they cannot be certain you haven't looked at it, then it should be a misdeal.
      "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

      Comment


        #4
        Missdeal

        Comment


          #5
          jesus was Killarney a farce, the amount of these threads?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by 8611 View Post
            jesus was Killarney a farce, the amount of these threads?
            no it just had far more players than an average game.
            more players = more hands = more of these situations, pretty standard.


            as for the OP, If the card came off the top, ie dealer dealt you last, then tis the burn.
            If this happened the dealer would be aware of it once you mention, he'll know if he dealt it last.
            I really don't see how this was an issue, if there was any confusion as to when it came off then it was more likely to have been stuck to one of the others you were dealt and the whole deal is compromised. Misdeal, simples

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by sligboi View Post
              Just for the sake of clarity as I don't really have an interest with regards the ruling..

              How have you received a 3rd card yet the btn has only received 1 card? Is it just that the btn's card has been dealt to you instead of her?
              im sb so the button as got her 2 cards but the dealer carried on and threw me a 3rd card......obviously a dealer mistake, maybe thinks im on the button??? but the card hits my 2 cards that are marked by a chip

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by AndyFB View Post
                If the situation is as described, just give the 3rd card to the button, play on. However, if the dealer cannot be certain that the 3rd card is that card, or they cannot be certain you haven't looked at it, then it should be a misdeal.
                button has already recieved her 2 cards......

                Comment


                  #9
                  here is the ruling............

                  dealer doesnt know what to do, i suggest a bum deal as do 2 other players that have not acted yet, players that have mucked say nothing...... dealer doesnt wnat to redeal so calls floor

                  here is the ruling .... MY HAND IS DEAD

                  im not happy as i lost a large portion of my stack in previous hand (with my KK's v K7), so i ask for another ruling and main TD comes and agrees that my hand is dead

                  i state that i disagree and in fairness to the whole table they disagree too

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Things like this happen a lot, if you said it instantly then the dealer couldn't have been looking away and should just take the card back and use it as the burn card.

                    If you were looking around as the card came to you and the dealer had already directed their attention to the pending action and couldn't be sure if you had looked at the 3rd card then it should be a misdeal.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      look at my post just before you........................

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Your hand should never be killed for a dealer error as in this case.

                        If this happened as you said and the dealer can be 100% certain that you didn't see the 3rd card it's very simple. The 3rd card is taken back and becomes the burn card.

                        If you looked at the 3 cards (say 2 cards were stuck together). As long as you bring it to the attention of the dealer before you act on your hand.

                        Floor should be called, all 3 cards should be scammbled face down and one removed by the TD which needs to be tabled so the other players know what this card is and you play on with the remaining 2 cards. I seen this at an EPT which I think is a very common sense ruling.

                        However if you act on your hand and later discover that you have 3 cards, your hand is now dead.
                        €10,000 GTD New Monthly Tournament
                        Village Green Card Club, Last Thursday of the Month, €270 Freezeout
                        €1,000,000 GTD - Irish Open
                        CityWest Hotel, 6th-13th April

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Maddogg View Post
                          dealer doesnt know what to do
                          Be assertive ffs. Take the card and put it back on top of the deck! (better still, don't deal the extra card in the first place).

                          DON'T LET THE PLAYERS RUN YOUR TABLE.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            pity you were not on the floor for the main event......only for the tables reaction and the whole table stating they dont mind a bum deal my hand would of been dead which was annoying as i was sb and i was prepared to walk out of the tourney at this point if that was the ruling

                            your ruling makes sense JP....... espically in the case if the player sees the 3 cards and i'll remember that ruling for for my tourneys........

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Morihei View Post
                              Be assertive ffs. Take the card and put it back on top of the deck! (better still, don't deal the extra card in the first place).

                              DON'T LET THE PLAYERS RUN YOUR TABLE.
                              have to say that the dealer really stayed out of the whole thing, if he had of just taken the card back(cos my 2 cards were marked by a chip) and used it as the burned card there would of be no hassle..........i couldnt believe the ruling myself

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Maddogg View Post
                                i suggest a bum deal as do 2 other players that have not acted yet, players that have mucked say nothing...... dealer doesnt wnat to redeal so calls floor
                                Why did you suggest this Ray? Easiest thing to do in the situation?

                                I would assume if it is clear the 3rd card is not the one as secured by the chip protector that this just becomes the burn card. If not dealer should randomly select one of the cards as burn i suppose, don't like misdeal as action has taken place

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by ghostface ste View Post
                                  Why did you suggest this Ray? Easiest thing to do in the situation?

                                  I would assume if it is clear the 3rd card is not the one as secured by the chip protector that this just becomes the burn card. If not dealer should randomly select one of the cards as burn i suppose, don't like misdeal as action has taken place
                                  this is the thing mate, 3 people had folded (ug had folded before button recieved her 2nd card) so do we consider this as action? if someone had limped or bet i think there is a problem? i can see people in late position having an issue as they might be able to take the pot down with 3 early position hands already out of the hand

                                  easiest scenario is to take back the 3rd card which was easily noteable seen as my 2 cards were marked/guarded even though the 3rd card is touching my 2........ dealer could of handled this situation pretty easily and there would of been no hassle but he decide to call the floor

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Ridic decision there Ray. JP is spot on as usual and you're just unlucky it wasn't one of his games. Can't believe we still see decisions like this with all the sharing of thoughts on rulings that goes on now.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Don't get this as you got a full re deal ? Why the thread asking should you get anything different ? Every player knows when an extra card is thrown at them ! And they always say it straight away ! You got the ruling that u deserved to be fair ! But it should not have taken the whole table to fold before u noticed in my opinion !
                                      www.pokerinthepub.ie
                                      www.bigslickevents.net
                                      www.casinonightsireland.com
                                      www.thevenuetramore.com

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by BIG-SLICK-POKER View Post
                                        Don't get this as you got a full re deal ? Why the thread asking should you get anything different ? Every player knows when an extra card is thrown at them ! And they always say it straight away ! You got the ruling that u deserved to be fair ! But it should not have taken the whole table to fold before u noticed in my opinion !
                                        Fair play Neil !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, I think your getting your point across here !!! and you can see why !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In future JP, less of the .. and ,, if you want to be taken seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by EnzoScifo View Post
                                          Fair play Neil !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, I think your getting your point across here !!! and you can see why !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In future JP, less of the .. and ,, if you want to be taken

                                          seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                                          Hold on a second he allowed the whole hand to take place there was 4 folds ahead of him ! I gave him the benefit and misdealt after he was told his hand was dead ! He was given a mis deal and got new cards in same position , the Td had ruled that his hand was dead and when I was called I over ruled and gave a misdeal ! That's my point , his hand was not killed he got a new hand in he re deal ! Jp also said his hand should not have Been killed but his op did not say that 4 players had folded therefore action had taken place ! This is not a dig at jp , it's a dig at someone posting something that was dealt again ?????
                                          Last edited by BIG-SLICK-POKER; 06-10-10, 22:59.
                                          www.pokerinthepub.ie
                                          www.bigslickevents.net
                                          www.casinonightsireland.com
                                          www.thevenuetramore.com

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by BIG-SLICK-POKER View Post
                                            Hold on a second he allowed the whole hand to take place there was 4 folds ahead of him ! I gave him the benefit and misdealt after he was told his hand was dead ! He was given a mis deal and got new cards in same position , the Td had ruled that his hand was dead and when I was called I over ruled and gave a misdeal ! That's my point , his hand was not killed he got a new hand in he re deal ! Jp also said his hand should not have Been killed but his op did not say that 4 players had folded therefore action had taken place ! This is not a dig at the op it's a dig at someone posting something that was dealt again ?????
                                            I Know, I was only taking the piss that you keep using !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to get your point across , look above, there's another 5 of them

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by EnzoScifo View Post
                                              I Know, I was only taking the piss that you keep using !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to get your point across , look above, there's another 5 of them

                                              I'm on my iPhone !!!!!!! But seriously why did ray make a thread after he got a mis deal ! It's pointless . That's why some threads just are ridiculous and only want attention for unknown reasons. Hand was re dealt and we move on .

                                              Neill
                                              www.pokerinthepub.ie
                                              www.bigslickevents.net
                                              www.casinonightsireland.com
                                              www.thevenuetramore.com

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by NuckChorris View Post
                                                Ridic decision there Ray. JP is spot on as usual and you're just unlucky it wasn't one of his games. Can't believe we still see decisions like this with all the sharing of thoughts on rulings that goes on now.
                                                The decision was he got a misdeal ! Can someone tell me what the argument is here ! I overruled the decision and asked for a re deal
                                                www.pokerinthepub.ie
                                                www.bigslickevents.net
                                                www.casinonightsireland.com
                                                www.thevenuetramore.com

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by BIG-SLICK-POKER View Post
                                                  The decision was he got a misdeal ! Can someone tell me what the argument is here ! I overruled the decision and asked for a re deal
                                                  what is he were a timmid fella like damo and didnt question the original td's ruling to kill his hand?

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by Maddogg View Post
                                                    here is the ruling............
                                                    so i ask for another ruling and main TD comes and agrees that my hand is dead

                                                    As I stated action has occurred but no betting so in the interest of play play we will re deal the hand ! I try to protect players after dealer errors always ray ! But the minute a third card was thrown which has happened to mr a good few times i just say i have my cards ! No offence ray but u got a misdeal and the hand was re dealt so this is just a waste of a thread !
                                                    www.pokerinthepub.ie
                                                    www.bigslickevents.net
                                                    www.casinonightsireland.com
                                                    www.thevenuetramore.com

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      Ept rules are this

                                                      If the player hasn't acted then you should place all three cards face down give them a mix and turn one card over this becomes the burn card and the player can play the two remaining cards.
                                                      www.pokerinthepub.ie
                                                      www.bigslickevents.net
                                                      www.casinonightsireland.com
                                                      www.thevenuetramore.com

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by BIG-SLICK-POKER View Post
                                                        Ept rules are this

                                                        If the player hasn't acted then you should place all three cards face down give them a mix and turn one card over this becomes the burn card and the player can play the two remaining cards.
                                                        Neil text me to ask my opinion on this and I told him that this is the rule that I use, it rarely comes up and I believe that he made his ruling with the interest of what he thought was best and fair.

                                                        John.

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          Just a few points Neill

                                                          1. i stated that UG had folded before the button recieved her 2nd card
                                                          2. then i get 3rd card and point it out to the dealer by then UG +1 +2 + 3 fold afterwords until seat 1 decided to hold the hand until dealer decideds what to do
                                                          3. Floor calls my hand dead
                                                          4. i disagree and call for 2nd ruling which calls my hand dead
                                                          5. after a little discussion from table and you etc we get a mis deal (which i appreciate your decision in fairness of play)
                                                          6. as stated by donkaton a more timmed player would of except floors original rule

                                                          at the end of the day neill i put it up to get people opinion as this is a forum site and is a rule/ruling. its not boards.ie and it was not meant as a dig at you also i deem this discussion informative as now i know a ruling that i didnt know before and can implement into my tourneys or tournements im playingin future if the situation arises......

                                                          thanks for the input Jp, John and Neill

                                                          Ray

                                                          PS im on the look out for a BIG card guard for future tourenys......

                                                          Comment


                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by Maddogg View Post
                                                            at the end of the day neill i put it up to get people opinion as this is a forum site and is a rule/ruling. its not boards.ie and it was not meant as a dig at you also i deem this discussion informative as now i know a ruling that i didnt know before and can implement into my tourneys or tournements im playingin future if the situation arises......

                                                            Regardless of the ruling it's in everyone's interest to have this posted (so it's not a waste of a thread) so people know where they stand if this situation occurs again. IMO.

                                                            Comment


                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by Maddogg View Post
                                                              Just a few points Neill

                                                              1. i stated that UG had folded before the button recieved her 2nd card
                                                              2. then i get 3rd card and point it out to the dealer by then UG +1 +2 + 3 fold afterwords until seat 1 decided to hold the hand until dealer decideds what to do
                                                              3. Floor calls my hand dead
                                                              4. i disagree and call for 2nd ruling which calls my hand dead
                                                              5. after a little discussion from table and you etc we get a mis deal (which i appreciate your decision in fairness of play)
                                                              6. as stated by donkaton a more timmed player would of except floors original rule

                                                              at the end of the day neill i put it up to get people opinion as this is a forum site and is a rule/ruling. its not boards.ie and it was not meant as a dig at you also i deem this discussion informative as now i know a ruling that i didnt know before and can implement into my tourneys or tournements im playingin future if the situation arises......

                                                              thanks for the input Jp, John and Neill

                                                              Ray

                                                              PS im on the look out for a BIG card guard for future tourenys......

                                                              Fair Enough Ray heres my results anyhow from all i contacted and who responded to the threads

                                                              1.Luke Ivory (TD Fitzpatricks )- Hand should be Dead as 2 or more actions have occured
                                                              2.Steven Mc Clean (TD Poker Ireland) - Hand is Dead as action has occured
                                                              3.Keith Murphy (TD Big Sick)- Hand should be Dead as 2 or more actions have occured
                                                              4.Liam Delaney (TD Cpt) - Hand should be Dead as 2 or more actions have occured
                                                              5.Jp Mc Cann (Jp Poker)- 3 cards put face down and Td takes 1 card out as the burn randomly and deal on
                                                              6.John Scanlon (TD Barrys Casino)- 3 cards put face down and Td takes 1 card out as the burn randomly and deal on.

                                                              Our Rule will now change to the EPT Rule on this in favour of the player as i try to accomodate always in the case of dealer error . I agree with Jp and John on this but all in all this was another learning rule and i acted in the interest of fairness to the players .

                                                              Another Case of Dealer Mistakes

                                                              We also do the same if a dealer mucks a hand by mistake when a player has chips invested in the pot as i never think a player should be knocked out of a tournament if a dealer takes cards while they were all in or in the middle of a raising hand . Our rule there is that the player in the hand must forfeit the Big Blind Invested but recieves all his betting chips back .
                                                              www.pokerinthepub.ie
                                                              www.bigslickevents.net
                                                              www.casinonightsireland.com
                                                              www.thevenuetramore.com

                                                              Comment


                                                                #32
                                                                Why has no one mentioned the fact that the guys hand was protected by a chip!!
                                                                Cardguards are used too little in this country. With the simple act of putting a cardguard on your cards you make the floors decision easy!
                                                                The hand is protected ...FULL STOP.


                                                                ---
                                                                I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=53.743683,-7.920882

                                                                Comment


                                                                  #33
                                                                  common sense ruling that should have been made: dealer says oops, takes card back and uses it as burn - everything plays out as normal.

                                                                  If the card isn't fully distinguishable (ie player is dealt three cards and is not sure which two should be his hand), hand is scrambled and TD takes one of three cards and that card becomes the burn card.

                                                                  Can't see any reason for a misdeal and killing the player's hand is utterly ridiculous.
                                                                  Poker Podcast Playlist

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  Working...
                                                                  X