Irish Guineas

[Wesley Harms]

Canford Cliffs is a motorbike, this is a bank job, the more you put down the more you get back, finding money in the street and all that

[Wesley Harms]

jaysus if u posted it at 3am after coming in pissed i could understand but late morning its probably unforgiveable

You will eat that post about 3.50 imo

[Wesley Harms]

Canford Cliffs is a LAY. I even think he is worth laying him in the place market.

Expand please, humour me

[eagle eye]

I don't understand how anybody could say that Canford Cliffs is a lay.

Only reason I won't back it is that O'Brien is such a fucking crook and any of this horses could come out and show incredibly improved form and piss it.

[The C Kid]

I don't understand how anybody could say that Canford Cliffs is a lay.

Only reason I won't back it is that O'Brien is such a fucking crook and any of this horses could come out and show incredibly improved form and piss it.

Agree 100%, he definitely "stopped" the likes of Fencing Master and Viscount Nelson in the English Guineas, don't know whether they'll be off today either, I mean he's probably waiting for for a nice 47-60 handicap at Clonmel with them.

[Wesley Harms]

your mind is made up, my analysis would be lost on you.

Not at all Noel, I'm all for arguments for and against a selection.

[The C Kid]

I wouldn't back CC with stolen, I'm very confident at least two of the Newmarket runners will reverse form with him. Throw in the ground, the abysmal record of horses in the Irish 2000 who placed in the English equivalent, and the stiffer test today, I would have priced him alot bigger.

I think Dynasty is a cracking e/w punt fwiw.

[eagle eye]

Agree 100%, he definitely "stopped" the likes of Fencing Master and Viscount Nelson in the English Guineas, don't know whether they'll be off today either, I mean he's probably waiting for for a nice 47-60 handicap at Clonmel with them.

Wtf is this?

My point is that his horses can improve out of nowhere and win the thing, he is only interested in winning group one races so you can discard the form of his runners in lesser class as it means absolutely nothing.

[The C Kid]

Wtf is this?

My point is that his horses can improve out of nowhere and win the thing, he is only interested in winning group one races so you can discard the form of his runners in lesser class as it means absolutely nothing.

Your point was idiotic and expressed in a libelous manner. Hope this helps.

[Zuroph]

music show?

[Wesley Harms]

music show?

Runs tomorrow. Fillies race.

Ground won't be a factor with CC, he won the Civentry last year on fast ground doing handstands. And he pulled hard for 3 furlongs at Newmarket. If he settles today he will ate them (in the best Ted WAlsh accent)

[eagle eye]

Your point was idiotic and expressed in a libelous manner. Hope this helps.

Idiotic, really. Bring me the proof that its idiotic.

For example I want to hear you explain Beethoven winning the Dewhurst or lets go back to Frozen Fire winning the Derby. Its not just the winners though, its these ones that come in second when he has an odds on favourite in a Group One that really pisses me off and there have been plenty of them with no form but suddenly beat all the best home bar his super odds on fav.

[Wesley Harms]

Idiotic, really. Bring me the proof that its idiotic.

For example I want to hear you explain Beethoven winning the Dewhurst or lets go back to Frozen Fire winning the Derby. Its not just the winners though, its these ones that come in second when he has an odds on favourite in a Group One that really pisses me off and there have been plenty of them with no form but suddenly beat all the best home bar his super odds on fav.

Level?

[eagle eye]

jesus Eagle Eye you are a Grade A mug

No I have an opinion and I expressed it. That doesn't make me a mug.

I'll tell you what a mug is, somebody who goes around acting the maggot with his finger sticking out of his fly on a video.

[eagle eye]

welcome back Mr Flash, how we missed you.

I see you just had to respond, the answer you gave is an epic fail.

[Icarus152]

This is better then BBV,I'm not leaving.

[eagle eye]

This is better then BBV,I'm not leaving.

You got here too late, its all over, their past the post and no stewards enquiry either.

[Icarus152]

You got here too late, its all over, their past the post and no stewards enquiry either.

It's all Greek to me anyway,seems like good craic though.

[Wesley Harms]

Actually that thing with the finger and the fly and the jackal laugh and the dbc and jumping around was pretty fuckin hilarious

[eagle eye]

no no no, you are wrong, that alone means that I am a mug.

I'd have found it satisfying if it ended like this

[The Situation]

Dynasty is a great EW shout, although I'll be waiting to see how he is in the paddock before getting on because he's quite the temperamental character!

[The C Kid]

Idiotic, really. Bring me the proof that its idiotic.

For example I want to hear you explain Beethoven winning the Dewhurst or lets go back to Frozen Fire winning the Derby. Its not just the winners though, its these ones that come in second when he has an odds on favourite in a Group One that really pisses me off and there have been plenty of them with no form but suddenly beat all the best home bar his super odds on fav.

Agreed, all those million pound colts appearing out of nowhere to win races. Incredible.

[eagle eye]

Agreed, all those million pound colts appearing out of nowhere to win races. Incredible.

I asked you to explain those incredible improvements but you can't so you come out with some pathetic answer.

So lets move on, idiot.

[The C Kid]

I asked you to explain those incredible improvements but you can't so you come out with some pathetic answer.

So lets move on, idiot.

What's the point, the fact you even gave Frozen Fire as an example of a horse who showed incredible improvement out of nowhere shows how utterly clueless you are, and then when I point out at least ten reasons why improvement could have been forthcoming, you will be embarassed and go "I was trolling, got you all hahaha" and just look a complete twat to be honest.

[npr]

Although I would like to see Canford Cliffs win I can't be having him here. O'Brien will have two pacemakers, Curragh always take more getting than Newmarket. In Newmarket they went a slack pace then sprinted which suited Canford. Not quite a place lay but I can't fancy him.

I'll take Noll Wollop and Fencing Master against the big two.

[eagle eye]

What's the point, the fact you even gave Frozen Fire as an example of a horse who showed incredible improvement out of nowhere shows how utterly clueless you are, and then when I point out at least ten reasons why improvement could have been forthcoming, you will be embarassed and go "I was trolling, got you all hahaha" and just look a complete twat to be honest.

Go on then explain it, and while your at it, seeing as you are able to give so many reasons you might then explain how he hasn't been within a coutry mile of winning a race since then including that 3 runner race which can only be described as a disgrace.

[Caf]

What about Xtension? Was it you Noel who fancied it recently when finishing forth last time out in the english 2000?
I thought it ran a credible race that day and could come on nicely for that run.

[The C Kid]

Go on then explain it, and while your at it, seeing as you are able to give so many reasons you might then explain how he hasn't been within a coutry mile of winning a race since then including that 3 runner race which can only be described as a disgrace.

He was head second to Tartan Bearer in a Dante for fuck sake. Clearly a complete dark horse who came from nowhere and showed incredible improvement to win an Irish Derby, let alone an Irish Derby that was as messy as you'll see and a complete farce. This is without even taking into account the improvement O'Brien horses show on their 3rd run of a season, the fact that he was a false price as he blatantly didn't handle Epsom, and the fact that being by Montjeu he was always going to improve for a bit of cut underfoot.

Horses are not machines, especially not temperamental million pound colts, they won't necessarily run to their strengths every race. Also as for your comment about subsequent races, who knows, maybe he didn't train on from 3-4, most likely he wasn't that good in the first place, but he ran within 5lbs of his Curragh performance on every subsequent start according to ORs.

Maybe you should stop just looking at races as a solved problem, like OMG An Irish Derby winner got beat at 8/11 around Chester dog track by a handicapper it's clearly all rigged, is not a great approach to race-reading.

[eagle eye]

He was head second to Tartan Bearer in a Dante for fuck sake. Clearly a complete dark horse who came from nowhere and showed incredible improvement to win an Irish Derby, let alone an Irish Derby that was as messy as you'll see and a complete farce. This is without even taking into account the improvement O'Brien horses show on their 3rd run of a season, the fact that he was a false price as he blatantly didn't handle Epsom, and the fact that being by Montjeu he was always going to improve for a bit of cut underfoot.

Horses are not machines, especially not temperamental million pound colts, they won't necessarily run to their strengths every race. Also as for you comment about subsequent races, who knows, maybe he didn't train on from 3-4, most likely he wasn't that good in the first place, but he ran within 5lbs of his Curragh performance on every subsequent start according to ORs.

Maybe you should stop just looking at races as a solved problem, like OMG An Irish Derby winner got beat at 8/11 around Chester dog track by a handicapper it's clearly all rigged, is not a great approach to race-reading.

Yeah Allesandro Volta took out two horses, the fav and Curtain Call.

So you are saying that this horse won a derby where his stablemate took out the two horses which were coming to claim the race and the sudden improvement in form. Nothing odd about that win. And then fact that he hasn't won since including that 3 runner race.

Nothing odd about anything thats went on with that horse.

[The C Kid]

Yeah Allesandro Volta took out two horses, the fav and Curtain Call.

So you are saying that this horse won a derby where his stablemate took out the two horses which were coming to claim the race and the sudden improvement in form. Nothing odd about that win. And then fact that he hasn't won since including that 3 runner race.

Nothing odd about anything thats went on with that horse.

I concede defeat.

[npr]

Yeah Allesandro Volta took out two horses, the fav and Curtain Call.

So you are saying that this horse won a derby where his stablemate took out the two horses which were coming to claim the race and the sudden improvement in form. Nothing odd about that win. And then fact that he hasn't won since including that 3 runner race.

Nothing odd about anything thats went on with that horse.

That race still makes me mad. Frozen Fire took advantage of a woeful bit of interference and in hindsight did not deserve to have a Gr1 beside his name. Whereas Tartan Bearer who was taken out by that lunatic, AV, deserves to have a Gr1.

I do think that when you have as many horses as AOB has it can be difficult to know how they match up. Some horses show loads at home and nothing on the racetrack and others are vice versa. So some of the improvements in form as explainable to me. What I do disagree with is the team tactics. All the horses should be coupled with regard to interference. So if a horse with the same owner/trainer interferes with a horse and their stablemate benefits they should be demoted behind the horse that was interfered with.

[The C Kid]

Good work Howard.

Very nicely done.

[Wesley Harms]

I fuckin knew it, he is as good as I wanted to believe, The motorbike IMO

[eagle eye]

he just about stayed it, lol. i thought the 2/1 was banannas.

Supreme is the word for that performance. No question about it.

You just can't give in and admit that you were so so so so wrong.

[Starvin Marvin]

Makfi confirmed as better than Sea The Stars.

[Wesley Harms]

Makfi confirmed as better than Sea The Stars.

He will smash makfi if they both turn up in the St James Palace, Hughes got him settled brilliantly today as opposed to Newmarket where he didn't settle for half the race.

[applehunter]

Very amusing thread considering the result.

Its all about opinions...

[npr]

Although I would like to see Canford Cliffs win I can't be having him here. O'Brien will have two pacemakers, Curragh always take more getting than Newmarket. In Newmarket they went a slack pace then sprinted which suited Canford. Not quite a place lay but I can't fancy him.

I'll take Noll Wollop and Fencing Master against the big two.

Ridden with utmost confidence and horse was brilliant on the day. Richard Hannon must be sick of people telling him his milers don't get a mile . Delighted to be totally wrong.

Looks like guineas winners are cheap to buy.

[NewApproach]

Good call H_F. Some horse when he settles.

Eagle eye, lol

[Esprit]

Canford Cliffs will be a superstar imo. Just needs to settle better during the race and he'll be perfection.

[TommyGunne]

Didn't think the mile at the Curragh would suit Canford Cliffs, and would have layed a good chunk on him for other reasons too, but wasn't around to. Also, would have layed a lot of O'Brien's horses. Very unsurprised that Viscount Nelson was the best of his though.

Eagle eye, O'Brien has not been as dominant in the early season for the last few years. Surely its not surprising? Just look at how the development patterns of his horses have changed over the last few years.

[Wesley Harms]

I really like the Bolger horse today, and I've no clue how music show could be favourite in any book. There making too much of the draw and was beaten over 6 lengths by Gile na Greine.

The way Bolgers finished the race at Newmarket was really impressive, a fast face will suit today. I suppose Lillie Langtry has to be respected on the pick of her juvenile form. Anna Salai looked better onthe faster ground aswell. I've really been a fan of Lady Darshaan last year.

I'm gonna stick with Gile na Greine, and Lady Darshaan each way.

[The Situation]

Termagant at 10/1 is my pick for the 1000. Backing it both Ew and outright. He won a group 1 here back in August leaving both of O'Brien's leading contenders and Gile in his wake albeit on heavy groud. He also won a maiden on good ground at Leop last summer, where the form has stood up very well from the horses he beat there. Size of the field would be a slight worry though.

Also laid Fame and Glory in the gold cup!

[NewApproach]

Termagant at 10/1 is my pick for the 1000. Backing it both Ew and outright. He won a group 1 here back in August leaving both of O'Brien's leading contenders and Gile in his wake albeit on heavy groud. He also won a maiden on good ground at Leop last summer, where the form has stood up very well from the horses he beat there. Size of the field would be a slight worry though.

Also laid Fame and Glory in the gold cup!

She