IO KK hand

[Arazi]

Level 500 - 1000 plus 50 ante
Stacks: Hero 65K, Villan approx 200K

I'm in the Hijack with KK and open for 2200.
Button an older sole survivor shoves for 10300, been ultra tight.
BB, David Dixie Dean, who is a loud English aggressive guy who's been playing manic poker (shoved approx 50K with QJ into AA at the 200/400 level the previous day) dwells before calling. He's unortadox, his bet sizing is retarded but he's not a complete idiot so he's obviously got a hand (10s+ AQ+ IMO). How do we proceed?

I'm unsure on my image here, I got to the table about an hour before and have been opening no more than average with little resistance.
I've played 2 bigger pots: The first where Carlos Mortenson raises the cutoff, I 3bet the button, SB 4bets and I shove but dont show. The second where UTG opens to 2000, Mortenson repops to 5100 and I cold 4bet to 12000 and show AA.

How do we proceed to get Max value?

[Dice75]

32k in the middle, 54k behind with position on LAG big stack, 3 more streets to come, I flat.

If your happy to try to add 33% to your stack HU, then shove. If LAG has AA, GG UL.

I would be looking for value from my KK.

[Guest]

Well if hes a maniac and has called the all in i think hell call a raise,
he might even call a shove.
Id make it 24k knowing hes probably calling.
Why did you show the AA Hand.

IM between raising and shoving but want the guy in the hand so raise for value shoving might scare him away despite him being a maniac.

[Dice75]

Well if hes a maniac and has called the all in i think hell call a raise,
he might even call a shove.
Id make it 24k knowing hes probably calling.
Why did you show the AA Hand.

IM between raising and shoving but want the guy in the hand so raise for value shoving might scare him away despite him being a maniac.

Fairly advertising your hand doing this from a 65k stack.

[Guest]

Fairly advertising your hand doing this from a 65k stack.

I agree but if guys a maniac he probably wont care he has 200k hes called 10 so whats another 14k maybe make it less still stinks of i have a monster though.

[MegaSin]

Would a shove over the top be that bad?

Trying to make it look like your isolating the shortie with a marginal hand, but hoping the big stack comes along?

Or is that silly?

[Strewelpeter]

Would a shove over the top be that bad?

Trying to make it look like your isolating the shortie with a marginal hand, but hoping the big stack comes along?

Or is that silly?

From what I've seen on the stream this guy is a LOLbad 'feel player' and will snap a shove of this size. Shoving prevents giving him a chance to stop spewing post flop.

[markc]

Would a shove over the top be that bad?

Trying to make it look like your isolating the shortie with a marginal hand, but hoping the big stack comes along?

Or is that silly?

that's my play here. Shove all day long.

[DrJFF]

In the hand with the QJ did he jam it in? what was the exact action,


I think calling is best, but do you think he is capable of folding AK, QQ or JJ pre if we shove?

[KK82]

Think it's a bit too much to shove, but don't really like just calling either. I'd make it 28k with the intention of shoving any flop.

[Arazi]

In the hand with the QJ did he jam it in? what was the exact action,


I think calling is best, but do you think he is capable of folding AK, QQ or JJ pre if we shove?

I was at the adjacent table, I understood it to be a 5 bet shove.

I guess it's how I shove it really, as mentioned above he's a bit of a feel player, one of the options I was considering was to dwell shove.

[DrJFF]

I was at the adjacent table, I understood it to be a 5 bet shove.

I guess it's how I shove it really, as mentioned above he's a bit of a feel player, one of the options I was considering was to dwell shove.

yeah like i'm pretty sure he won't fold like JJ+ and AK, shoving can look like your trying to steal the dead money in the pot, like he can level himself thinking you isolating with like 88+, AQ+ not that i think he is thinking of ranges

[gocall01]

Didn't make to the IO this year but I shove here.
Straight off you can add 33% to your stack worse case & bonus if he phew calls.
If he has AA, oh well.

Interested to hear other agruements for the reraise to 24k-28k range...
Shove is my play though.

[Samba]

We've got more like circa 62.5k behind and just the flop to come, the chips will either go in on the flop or that will be the end of the hand if you opt to flat, there's no post flop poker to be played here in this spot imo. 60bb's with a lag in the middle flatting, who's likely to call off light, our stack represents just over 25% of his, shove, i'm fine with the lag calling or folding, both are acceptable results.

[Guest]

Shove-ski

[Mellor]

Making it 28k or similar normal raise means you'll take a 70k flop with 35k behind.
Just shove now and offer him the chance to make a mistake.

[Winning!]

Idk guys, much prefer CIB to like 21k vs this villain. Yeah it screams of strength but so does 4b-shoving 65BBs over a nitty 3b and a cold call, and I doubt this guy will fold for another 10k with so much out there even if he does figure us to have a big hand all he'll be able to think is "10k more with 45k out there? why not!", and if he catches a piece of anything on the flop he probably wont fold either. 4b-shoving offers him less opportunity to make a mistake than just 5betting with a plan to get it in postflop imo

[alanmc101]

winning!

[Semibluff]

I agree but if guys a maniac he probably wont care he has 200k hes called 10 so whats another 14k maybe make it less still stinks of i have a monster though.

this!
CIB isnt bad, but we dont need to be this smart - we can find a price thats a bit bigger that he will call with. Id imagine he's more likely to want to see a flop pre than to spaz out now. So make him pay for it
Also his cold call should be TT+ a lot of the time. To which he isnt folding often here at all.
raise to 28k, your hand is telegraphed a fair bit, but if he has TT +, he's prob not finding a fold on a low board after getting to that flop and with you betting less than pot

[alanmc101]

yea I make it bout 25k here, I doubt he folds to this.

[suitedconnector]

A no brainer ,why let the noisy Dixie hit an unlikely winning hand off the flop ? there was enough in the pot to take there and then imo , the hand played out ,short stack all -in.. AsKs ,..U got KK ,Dixie folds AK ,flop a whole lot o'nothing .... I should know because I was that OLDER last man standing you so describe ......

[Arazi]

Ha ye UL.
For the record I made it 27k (considered all options) and Dixie folded AKhh after a tank during which he incorrectly calculated his pot odds and asked me 4 times if I had the boots again.
I was pretty surprised he was able to fold, obv didn't help that I showed the AA earlier plus I may have looked too strong (Saying this cause I looked at the All In player while Dixie was thinking and he looked like he knew he was in trouble).
I'm not sure what best play was, maybe CIB or a smaller raise than 27 if I was to play it that way again.

[Semibluff]

meh - not sure id do much different

Dont show the AA hand earlier. Having shown it, maybe a shove (which may make you look a little lighter) could've worked
e

[Arazi]

Ye I showed it for Mortenson who I had direct position on, we'd both come from the same table and I'd shown KK after a raising war in our last hand on that table so I wanted him to think I was nitty so I could 3bet him more easily, prob backfired thou.
Thanks

[dannydiamond]

Ha ye UL.
For the record I made it 27k (considered all options) and Dixie folded AKhh after a tank during which he incorrectly calculated his pot odds and asked me 4 times if I had the boots again.
I was pretty surprised he was able to fold, obv didn't help that I showed the AA earlier plus I may have looked too strong (Saying this cause I looked at the All In player while Dixie was thinking and he looked like he knew he was in trouble).
I'm not sure what best play was, maybe CIB or a smaller raise than 27 if I was to play it that way again.

Shove all day for me. Flatting is terrible and any reraise bar a shove looks very strong. Reraise shove actually looks weaker. If he folds after a shove then you've won a decent pot if your kings hold against the shortie.

You're practically telegraphing your hand with a raise that's less than a shove. I've started to do it online though with weaker hands for the reason outlined above but with kk it's a no brainer shove.

[Dice75]

How did the board run out, outta curiosity?

How would flatting pre have worked out?

[Sirtoyou]

Flatting pre is not a great option imo because Dean can have factored getting to a cheap showdown with a player all in and no sidepot to quarrel over.A sidepot has to be created pre here the size of which is the dilemma.

[Arazi]

I think it was 9 high, he had no hand and no draw after the flop.

[pocket9s]

Think im shoving here hoping for a loose call or just win the the pot there and then!

[Moneymaker]

Biggest lesson to be learned here. Don't show your cards.

Oh and I just stick it in here. No need to get fancy. And it looks weaker. I'd like CiB better if we had a bigger stack as it would give the illusion we might fold to a jam but we don't really have that option here.