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    Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
    There isn't really that type of pricing on Dub-UK routes anymore (with Ryanair). E.g. Dub-Lon leaving Tuesday next week, returning Wednesday is €34, and is fairly consistent across the week, except Mondays / Fridays which are peak travel times. Same for next two months. Same for Manchester.
    It's often 'go Friday, op Saturday, back Sunday', which tends to be the most expensive time for flights booked late.
    Minimize the time off work, and make it look like a weekend away so that the gossips in the office aren't nodding their heads sagely about what Sarah in Sales is doing taking 3 days off midweek.

    Probably not this way for everyone of course, but its why 'taking the boat' is still a thing.

    Comment


      ...
      "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

      Comment


        Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
        And where do we think morals come from? Religion is the only moral education anyone in Ireland ever got.
        Example ?

        Comment


          Originally posted by pokerhand View Post
          Isn't it a moral argument, not just religious argument? Thought Emmet explained that pretty well.
          Only religions seem to be 'confident' enough to make assertions about the beginnings of 'human life' though.

          And the prevailing religion in Ireland, the Catholic Church's teachings suggest that conception is the beginning of 'human life' (interestingly of course, this has not always been the case, consider the idea of 'quickening' surely to be past 12 weeks, and other 'fluid' teachings on the matter), the term 'unborn' which is used in the 8th amendment is suitably vague as to be difficult to be legally sound on, but in my opinion reflects the idea that we can take 'unborn' all the way back to conception.

          Implicit in my 'beliefs' above, was that this was a valid construct.
          Last edited by Emmet; 13-04-18, 10:52.

          Comment


            ...
            "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

            Comment


              Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
              And where do we think morals come from? Religion is the only moral education anyone in Ireland ever got.
              That is absolutely totally untrue. You should do some reading into how Brehon law worked, the 'nobility' of Irish clans in old Ireland etc.

              It would be ridiculous to pretend that religion has not shaped our modern morals, but equally it is ridiculous to suggest it is the only driver of what we consider proper.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Mike Bullocks View Post
                many moons ago) A guy I know got his girlfriend preggers. He was ecstatic and so was she. It was nearing the 12 week mark, she asked him why he didn’t propose yet . He said meh and she said, marriage or the pregnancy ends. He said gtfo are you kidding, we are only in our early 20s. Row breaks out . She refuses to talk about it and becomes uncontactable for a while. She flies to Birmingham and aborts the until recently ‘much wanted’ kid. The bloke meanwhile is getting more and more worried and calls to her house (for the umpteenth). Big smile , hey, btw I got rid of the baby. BIG SCENES. Shocked and devastated the guilt ridden bloke never lays eyes on her again. Her body I suppose. On the one hand she didn’t want a baby without a church wedding and on the other she had no problem aborting it to prove it. This is not an argument to keep the outdated 8th amendment, it’s an argument that there are other parties involved in an abortion and not just the ‘it’s MY BODY’ tedious lamenters.
                What would you change. Ideally what is the man and woman's rights in that instance, in your opinion?
                airport, lol

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                  There's zero non religious arguments in favour of retaining 8th.
                  There's always a non religious argument for voting no in a referendum. A basic conservatism (with a small c) is often enough to leave one choosing the status quo over a much more uncertain change.
                  Gone full 'Glinner' since June 2022.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                    And where do we think morals come from? Religion is the only moral education anyone in Ireland ever got.
                    Are you suggesting non religious people have no morals (aka standards of behaviour)?

                    I would imagine most people learn their morals from their parents, circle of friends, school, college, work place.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                      And where do we think morals come from? Religion is the only moral education anyone in Ireland ever got.
                      What? You think there were no morals before religion was founded? Atheits don't have morals?
                      No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Mike Bullocks View Post
                        Dont worry Keith .
                        Been getting reactions like this since my mental breakdown in the 90s waiting for a taxi in Leeson St.
                        It wasn’t a pop of any sort, I just don’t remember mentioning animals at any stage and may have missed something on the thread explaining it
                        You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
                        World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                          And where do we think morals come from? Religion is the only moral education anyone in Ireland ever got.
                          Sorry Hitch but this is unbelievably silly and belies a complete misunderstanding of morality and from where it derives
                          You are technically correct...the best kind of correct
                          World Record Holder for Long Distance Soul Reads: May 7th 2011

                          Comment


                            Kayroo. Ref your tangent.

                            Biggieshonda

                            She would have to offer a medical reason for an abortion or a threat (certified) to her mental health. In my view in this instance she got an abortion under the ‘bitches be crazy’ (HJ puking now)

                            Mode. The abortion of a perfectly healthy feutus from a perfectly healthy woman should be difficult to obtain. In the UK it’s not, it’s just ticking a box. In Ireland I would like the amendment repealed but the law to make it as difficult as SP getting a passport. It’s a moral question for me and definitely not obtained by the church. (now there is something that should have been aborted)

                            Comment


                              Liverpool get Roma

                              They are great travellers

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Mike Bullocks View Post
                                Kayroo. Ref your tangent.

                                Biggieshonda

                                She would have to offer a medical reason for an abortion or a threat (certified) to her mental health. In my view in this instance she got an abortion under the ‘bitches be crazy’ (HJ puking now)

                                Mode. The abortion of a perfectly healthy feutus from a perfectly healthy woman should be difficult to obtain. In the UK it’s not, it’s just ticking a box. In Ireland I would like the amendment repealed but the law to make it as difficult as SP getting a passport. It’s a moral question for me and definitely not obtained by the church. (now there is something that should have been aborted)
                                "I don't trust women to make choices"
                                "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                  And where do we think morals come from? Religion is the only moral education anyone in Ireland ever got.
                                  Hitch is an educator so hardly surprising he thinks in these terms
                                  "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by Mike Bullocks View Post
                                    many moons ago) A guy I know got his girlfriend preggers. He was ecstatic and so was she. It was nearing the 12 week mark, she asked him why he didn’t propose yet . He said meh and she said, marriage or the pregnancy ends. He said gtfo are you kidding, we are only in our early 20s. Row breaks out . She refuses to talk about it and becomes uncontactable for a while. She flies to Birmingham and aborts the until recently ‘much wanted’ kid. The bloke meanwhile is getting more and more worried and calls to her house (for the umpteenth). Big smile , hey, btw I got rid of the baby. BIG SCENES. Shocked and devastated the guilt ridden bloke never lays eyes on her again. Her body I suppose. On the one hand she didn’t want a baby without a church wedding and on the other she had no problem aborting it to prove it. This is not an argument to keep the outdated 8th amendment, it’s an argument that there are other parties involved in an abortion and not just the ‘it’s MY BODY’ tedious lamenters.
                                    That's a pretty disgusting woman right there, using a potential life as blackmail/extortion.

                                    I don't though, think that this could be put forward as a good reason why we should have the 8th.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post
                                      LOL
                                      You had me all excited that I was missing some simple route to doing this.

                                      If it was available from another source I would have got it, of course.
                                      fecking everything is out there.
                                      even the news is on the local sites player for days (which you can scrap)
                                      People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
                                      Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
                                      https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by Emmet View Post
                                        That's a pretty disgusting woman right there, using a potential life as blackmail/extortion.

                                        I don't though, think that this could be put forward as a good reason why we should have the 8th.
                                        I didnt

                                        Comment


                                          Is it fair to assume that most of those who are in favour of repeal do not believe that 'life' begins at conception, and that the reverse is true of those in favour of keeping the 8th?

                                          Given that science has not and maybe cannot define when life begins, the waters must be so muddy for those who'd prefer to rely on hard science to guide them here! I wonder are there many who would view a foetus as being a fully valid human who are still OK with abortion, or does acceptance of abortion, however regrettable, require firm adherence to a 'a foetus is not alive' line?


                                          Comment


                                            Is it fair to assume that most of those who are in favour of repeal do not believe that 'life' begins at conception, and that the reverse is true of those in favour of keeping the 8th?

                                            Given that science has not and maybe cannot define when life begins, the waters must be so muddy for those who'd prefer to rely on hard science to guide them here! I wonder are there many who would view a foetus as being a fully valid human who are still OK with abortion, or does acceptance of abortion, however regrettable, require firm adherence to a 'a foetus is not alive' line?


                                            Comment


                                              What are you actually looking for SP?

                                              Comment


                                                Originally posted by ionapaul View Post
                                                Is it fair to assume that most of those who are in favour of repeal do not believe that 'life' begins at conception, and that the reverse is true of those in favour of keeping the 8th?

                                                Given that science has not and maybe cannot define when life begins, the waters must be so muddy for those who'd prefer to rely on hard science to guide them here! I wonder are there many who would view a foetus as being a fully valid human who are still OK with abortion, or does acceptance of abortion, however regrettable, require firm adherence to a 'a foetus is not alive' line?
                                                I actually think it makes as much if not more sense to say 'life begins at conception' as it does to say 'life begins X weeks after conception' or at birth or whatever.

                                                Edit: Sorry, just to expand on this a bit. A fetus is plainly alive. The argument is more around whether it is an alive human being and if it is does it have a right to stay in a woman's body if she doesn't want it there.
                                                Last edited by Keane; 13-04-18, 11:48.

                                                Comment


                                                  Originally posted by Denny Crane View Post
                                                  What are you actually looking for SP?
                                                  I've been following this sub-plot for the last few days wondering what sort of bizarre fetish shit he's somehow got saved on his sky box that he can't get a back up of on pornhub.

                                                  Comment


                                                    Before 12 weeks we are essentially talking about a part of a woman's body. The idea of a 'viable embryo', 'a potential human being' or 'perfectly healthy fetus' as a separate entity is ludicrous. It leads to perverse situations where women are forced to carry to full term, against their will, pregnancies that are known to be incompatible with life.

                                                    Should we ban vasectomies too or force people, by law, to brush their teeth?

                                                    Arguing from an absurd starting point will lead to atrocities, right?
                                                    Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

                                                    Comment


                                                      LORETTA: I want to have babies.

                                                      REG: You want to have babies?!

                                                      LORETTA: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.

                                                      REG: But... you can't have babies.

                                                      LORETTA: Don't you oppress me.

                                                      REG: I'm not oppressing you, Stan. You haven't got a womb! Where's the foetus going to gestate?! You going to keep it in a box?!
                                                      Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

                                                      Comment


                                                        Originally posted by Mike Bullocks View Post
                                                        many moons ago) A guy I know got his girlfriend preggers. He was ecstatic and so was she. It was nearing the 12 week mark, she asked him why he didn’t propose yet . He said meh and she said, marriage or the pregnancy ends. He said gtfo are you kidding, we are only in our early 20s. Row breaks out . She refuses to talk about it and becomes uncontactable for a while. She flies to Birmingham and aborts the until recently ‘much wanted’ kid. The bloke meanwhile is getting more and more worried and calls to her house (for the umpteenth). Big smile , hey, btw I got rid of the baby. BIG SCENES. Shocked and devastated the guilt ridden bloke never lays eyes on her again. Her body I suppose. On the one hand she didn’t want a baby without a church wedding and on the other she had no problem aborting it to prove it. This is not an argument to keep the outdated 8th amendment, it’s an argument that there are other parties involved in an abortion and not just the ‘it’s MY BODY’ tedious lamenters.
                                                        So he’s committed enough to her, to ride her on a regular and let’s assume exclusive basis. He’s committed enough to her for her to have his child and the long term emotional, financial and other ongoing requirements that entails, but he won’t have a chat with her in advance about what commitment she needs to have his baby. And when it happens and she says she wants marriage his response is “meh I’m in my 20s and can’t be settling down like”.

                                                        And when she declares she’s not prepared to have a kid with this upstanding guy, who won’t commit to her, he feels he has a right to be upset. And you think the state should back this responsible citizen up by forcing her to have his baby.
                                                        Even though the only way to effectively do that would be to put under house arrest for the period.

                                                        Is this seriously your fully formed logical viewpoint? Or are you just on your usual interweb windup?

                                                        Edit: just reread your post. So this isn’t an argument for abortion or not or for the 8th or not. It’s just a story that people are stupid and any idiots can make and have or abort a foetus. Fair enough so but no sympathy for either of them if I’m honest. And I reckon the state dodged a financial bullet.
                                                        Last edited by V for Vendetta; 13-04-18, 12:04.
                                                        ‘IF YOU had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” Genghis Khan

                                                        Comment


                                                          Originally posted by Keane View Post
                                                          I've been following this sub-plot for the last few days wondering what sort of bizarre fetish shit he's somehow got saved on his sky box that he can't get a back up of on pornhub.
                                                          It’s gotta be some nature program or some Irish news segment or something that nobody would make available on a dodgy stream. I’ve been wondering what it might be myself...
                                                          ‘IF YOU had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” Genghis Khan

                                                          Comment


                                                            Originally posted by V for Vendetta View Post
                                                            It’s gotta be some nature program or some Irish news segment or something that nobody would make available on a dodgy stream. I’ve been wondering what it might be myself...
                                                            Backup of all his favorite soccerball, can't ask for help finding them online and admit he actually likes the game!

                                                            Comment


                                                              Originally posted by Mike Bullocks View Post
                                                              Kayroo. Ref your tangent.

                                                              Biggieshonda

                                                              She would have to offer a medical reason for an abortion or a threat (certified) to her mental health. In my view in this instance she got an abortion under the ‘bitches be crazy’ (HJ puking now)

                                                              Mode. The abortion of a perfectly healthy feutus from a perfectly healthy woman should be difficult to obtain. In the UK it’s not, it’s just ticking a box. In Ireland I would like the amendment repealed but the law to make it as difficult as SP getting a passport. It’s a moral question for me and definitely not obtained by the church. (now there is something that should have been aborted)
                                                              You'd be in favour of forcing women who have actively tried to avoid having child, to carry a child for 9 months, in their body, against their will?
                                                              Next you'll be telling us sex isn't for pleasure it's for procreation only.
                                                              Anyone who feels strongly about keeping a baby in an unwanted pregnancy should bring that up before entering a sexual relationship, therefore if it happens and their partner shares their views they can decide to not have an abortion, whereas a couple with a different view can. It's choice, not certain peoples views forced on the nation.
                                                              airport, lol

                                                              Comment


                                                                Trump gets up early.

                                                                Comment


                                                                  Just watched the Teddy Perkins episode of Atlanta. Just keeps on surprising. Give this show a spin if you are not already watching.

                                                                  The Expanse is back. The first episode of season 3 in the usual places.

                                                                  Opr

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    ...
                                                                    "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      ...
                                                                      "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        Originally posted by V for Vendetta View Post
                                                                        So he’s committed enough to her, to ride her on a regular and let’s assume exclusive basis. He’s committed enough to her for her to have his child and the long term emotional, financial and other ongoing requirements that entails, but he won’t have a chat with her in advance about what commitment she needs to have his baby. And when it happens and she says she wants marriage his response is “meh I’m in my 20s and can’t be settling down like”.

                                                                        And when she declares she’s not prepared to have a kid with this upstanding guy, who won’t commit to her, he feels he has a right to be upset. And you think the state should back this responsible citizen up by forcing her to have his baby.
                                                                        Even though the only way to effectively do that would be to put under house arrest for the period.

                                                                        Is this seriously your fully formed logical viewpoint? Or are you just on your usual interweb windup?

                                                                        Edit: just reread your post. So this isn’t an argument for abortion or not or for the 8th or not. It’s just a story that people are stupid and any idiots can make and have or abort a foetus. Fair enough so but no sympathy for either of them if I’m honest. And I reckon the state dodged a financial bullet.
                                                                        You can fill in gaps I presume . It's already a long enough post. Don't be such a dick . The state is there to look after the poor unfortunates just as much as the pedantic live life by the book yielding snobs. Guy had my sympathies anyway. Orrible Geebag didn't.

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          Hitch . My morals told me religion is immoral.

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                                                            This is the cultural values map I'm referring to. Constructed based on 100,000s of surveys. I published a paper constructing this index for influence on financial decision making, and the 'traditional' vs 'secular-rational' index component questions is nearly 100% about whether people follow a religious or a non-religious moral framework.




                                                                            There's also been any number of studies done confirming people's moral framework is massively related to religion.
                                                                            I can't remember being in a religion called 'English Speaking' personally.

                                                                            Religion was pervasive and dominant in Irish society for a long time, but Irish society =/= Catholic Society. We had a society before we had any organised religion. That was not a moral cesspit of anarchism, even by today's standards!

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              Originally posted by Mike Bullocks View Post
                                                                              You can fill in gaps I presume . It's already a long enough post. Don't be such a dick . The state is there to look after the poor unfortunates just as much as the pedantic live life by the book yielding snobs. Guy had my sympathies anyway. Orrible Geebag didn't.
                                                                              Honestly Willie, maybe it’s lost something in your telling, but he’s getting fuck all sympathy from me. He expects some young one in her 20s to raise his kid but he’s not prepared to make any commitment to her. And then he’s upset she won’t raise his child. That’s not being a dick that’s reflecting back your post.

                                                                              The state is there to look after all of its citizens equally. But it would be nice if adults in a republic didn’t rely upon it and acted with a bit of maturity. As a kid who was raised with nothing I don’t know where the “book yielding snobs” bit comes into it. Maybe step back from this personal story (where you know the facts not I) and look at what you posted.
                                                                              ‘IF YOU had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” Genghis Khan

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                I think ye are talking at crossed purposes. Hitch isn't saying any moral framework has to come from religion he's saying our current moral framework does come from Catholicism.

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  Originally posted by Denny Crane View Post
                                                                                  What are you actually looking for SP?
                                                                                  Originally posted by DeadParrot View Post
                                                                                  fecking everything is out there.
                                                                                  even the news is on the local sites player for days (which you can scrap)
                                                                                  Channel 4 racing 14/6/2014 Reward offered
                                                                                  Turning millions into thousands

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    Originally posted by V for Vendetta View Post
                                                                                    Honestly Willie, maybe it’s lost something in your telling, but he’s getting fuck all sympathy from me. He expects some young one in her 20s to raise his kid but he’s not prepared to make any commitment to her. And then he’s upset she won’t raise his child. That’s not being a dick that’s reflecting back your post.

                                                                                    The state is there to look after all of its citizens equally. But it would be nice if adults in a republic didn’t rely upon it and acted with a bit of maturity. As a kid who was raised with nothing I don’t know where the “book yielding snobs” bit comes into it. Maybe step back from this personal story (where you know the facts not I) and look at what you posted.
                                                                                    They were both ecstatic. He was 22 (still unmarried now sad tale but irrelevant here). It was his girlfriend . He was emotionally committed to her . A soft fecker he was.
                                                                                    She on the other hand considered him trapped,
                                                                                    She fecked off not him. Do you think they need to marry ?. I'd like to say he dodged a bullet but the bloke lost himself over the years and to this day ages the kid. He is a forgotten/ignored stat in this 'its my body' mantra. Its his mind.



                                                                                    It was 'live life by the book' yielding snobs. Ya see not reading the post. How do you ever get through a book.
                                                                                    Last edited by Solksjaer!; 13-04-18, 13:07.

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      After watching my wife go through 3 pregnancies. The first she nearly died. She had hellp syndrome (same as savitha). The 2nd, our daughter was diagnosed with a hole in her heart at 34 weeks and died in the womb at 37 weeks. 3rd felt like the longest 9 months of my life. We were asked if we wanted to do the early test to see if the 3rd had downs and both of us didn’t want to. I can understand why people do and why they would abort under these circumstances but morally that doesn’t seem right to me but it’s their choice.

                                                                                      My aunts partner was pregnant with a child who had FFA and had to travel to the UK for an abortion. This was such an horrific experience for both of them and made much much worse as a result of traveling to the UK.

                                                                                      A woman should have a choice whether or not they want to have an abortion. Whether it’s for medical reasons or otherwise they have to make the decision. They have to live with their decision whether you agree with that or not.
                                                                                      His rival it seems, had broken his dreams,By stealing the girl of his fancy.Her name was Magill, and she called herself Lil,But everyone knew her as Nancy.

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        Originally posted by Mike Bullocks View Post
                                                                                        They were both ecstatic. He was 22 (still unmarried now sad tale but irrelevant here). It was his girlfriend . He was emotionally committed to her . A soft fecker he was.
                                                                                        She on the other hand considered him trapped,
                                                                                        She fecked off not him. Do you think they need to marry ?. I'd like to say he dodged a bullet but the bloke lost himself over the years and to this day ages the kid. He is a forgotten/ignored stat in this 'its my body' mantra. Its his mind.



                                                                                        It was 'live life by the book' yielding snobs. Ya see not reading the post. How do you ever get through a book.
                                                                                        Emotionally committed? WTF is that when there is shitty nappies to be cleaned and paid for?


                                                                                        I think you might be a bit too close to this one to be objective. Still don’t understand what “yielding snobs” means but I’ll park you and your rant here.
                                                                                        Last edited by V for Vendetta; 13-04-18, 13:15.
                                                                                        ‘IF YOU had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” Genghis Khan

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                          Interesting stat, in England and Wales in 2016 38% of abortions were to women who had one or more previous abortions (same in 2015).

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                            Plenty of people rear kids without getting married. It's not difficult to understand.

                                                                                            I myself got married but still don't see the need .

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                              Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post
                                                                                              Channel 4 racing 14/6/2014 Reward offered
                                                                                              Did you look around here https://www.youtube.com/user/Channel4Racing/videos

                                                                                              What aspect of that days racing are you looking for??

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                Originally posted by jack90210 View Post
                                                                                                Interesting stat, in England and Wales in 2016 38% of abortions were to women who had one or more previous abortions (same in 2015).

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                  Originally posted by Mike Bullocks View Post
                                                                                                  Plenty of people rear kids without getting married. It's not difficult to understand.

                                                                                                  I myself got married but still don't see the need .
                                                                                                  If you want a young one in her 20s to raise your child it might be a good idea to see if she agrees with you before you knock her up. My opinion certainly doesn’t matter and shouldn’t be imposed on anyone.

                                                                                                  As for what other people do I fail to see the relevance. Are they going to help her at 3 in the morning when your “ emotionally committed” mate is out having a good time?

                                                                                                  Was he promising to put a roof over her head? financially support her? Pay for the child to eat? You’ve told us about his emotional commitment but it would appear the rest of his commitment was “meh” hardly a rock of support the way you’ve told it. Marriage is a legal document and a commitment that has financial implications. You haven’t told us what commitments your friend was offering bar “emotional” and for that he wants her to raise his child. I guess I’m crazily by the book for imposing a bit of harsh reality. I never had you down as an emotional dreamer though either.
                                                                                                  ‘IF YOU had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” Genghis Khan

                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                    Originally posted by Hitchhiker's Guide To... View Post
                                                                                                    Wha? Did you have a non-religious morals class in school?
                                                                                                    This is actually a thing hitch it’s called civics.

                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                      Jaysus Miriam. I was offering up an example of someone other than the woman or child who can fall victim . It's not just about the women . As you said your sympathies are zero in this regard. That's fine . Mine are not . Someone asked for a non religion moral example. That's mine. I'll craft My examples more clearly next time

                                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                                        ...
                                                                                                        "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

                                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                                          Originally posted by Wombatman View Post
                                                                                                          Before 12 weeks we are essentially talking about a part of a woman's body. The idea of a 'viable embryo', 'a potential human being' or 'perfectly healthy fetus' as a separate entity is ludicrous.
                                                                                                          But in reality there is no medical, legal or philosophical consensus that 12 weeks is the moment at which a zygote or foetus changes from a part of the woman's body to something different, right? Lots and lots and lots of discussion on this out there, going back to literally ancient times, but no consensus.

                                                                                                          Right now I'm a Repeal voter and it's very unlikely I change my mind... but I struggle with squaring my heartfelt belief that a woman should be able to choose with a niggling doubt that the 'perhaps a foetus is a human being, and if so...' rabbit hole argument has some validity.

                                                                                                          Which is why I asked earlier do we think that the vast majority of Repeal voters believe that abortion terminates a non-human collection of cells, as I'd imagine that's the only way many would be happy to vote for Repeal; i.e. it might be hard to vote to enable abortion if you thought humans were being aborted!

                                                                                                          Of course there are so many other things to consider (and which have already been brought up in earlier posts); the procedure is available in nearby jurisdictions, people are going to make that choice regardless, let's make it safe etc... for them to do so in Ireland. Still feel it is very difficult to square the circle if you have any doubts about when exactly personhood begins.


                                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                                            ...
                                                                                                            "We're not f*cking Burundi" - Big Phil

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                                                                                                              Originally posted by ionapaul View Post
                                                                                                              But in reality there is no medical, legal or philosophical consensus that 12 weeks is the moment at which a zygote or foetus changes from a part of the woman's body to something different, right? Lots and lots and lots of discussion on this out there, going back to literally ancient times, but no consensus.

                                                                                                              Right now I'm a Repeal voter and it's very unlikely I change my mind... but I struggle with squaring my heartfelt belief that a woman should be able to choose with a niggling doubt that the 'perhaps a foetus is a human being, and if so...' rabbit hole argument has some validity.

                                                                                                              Which is why I asked earlier do we think that the vast majority of Repeal voters believe that abortion terminates a non-human collection of cells, as I'd imagine that's the only way many would be happy to vote for Repeal; i.e. it might be hard to vote to enable abortion if you thought humans were being aborted!

                                                                                                              Of course there are so many other things to consider (and which have already been brought up in earlier posts); the procedure is available in nearby jurisdictions, people are going to make that choice regardless, let's make it safe etc... for them to do so in Ireland. Still feel it is very difficult to square the circle if you have any doubts about when exactly personhood begins.
                                                                                                              I would strongly suggest you do some independent research on this as everything you read here or in the media between now and May will be biased. I would recommend in your research you look up pictures of a fetus at 12 weeks for relevance.

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                                                                                                                Hmm - the thing is I don't believe that life is sacred or anything (I'm in favour of legalising euthanasia, don't have much a problem with capital punishment in certain circumstances), so the possibility of a human dying isn't as big an obstacle to me as it might be to others!

                                                                                                                I just wonder do many people just not think about the tough questions out of a desire to keep things that much simpler for themselves. I lean that way myself to be honest. Same as not wanting to think about where my steak comes from or how sausages are made.


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                                                                                                                  Originally posted by ionapaul View Post
                                                                                                                  I just wonder do many people just not think about the tough questions out of a desire to keep things that much simpler for themselves. I lean that way myself to be honest.
                                                                                                                  I think this is very much a thing.

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                                                                                                                    Originally posted by dobby View Post
                                                                                                                    You could always answer the question instead of giving snide comments.



                                                                                                                    I have asked her. She said that in the extreme cases mentioned like rape or threat to life etc that it's 100% the woman's choice (for obvious reasons) but if you're married or in a LTR the partner should be consulted so wouldn't completely be the woman's choice in that case.

                                                                                                                    Going by HJ reasoning, if a couple get pregnant and the woman decides she wants an abortion but her partner wanted a child, she could just say tough shit my body my choice and go ahead with an abortion. Doesn'tseem right.
                                                                                                                    For this reason, we need to repeal the 8th. Has the woman got to go through the whole police process if she is raped? will she believed? maybe she wants to let it quietly go away (the baby) as it will be a constant reminder. I have known of girls who got raped never telling the police. I know one who carried the child to term and my friends mum adopted her. The mum to this day can not stand the sight of the child.

                                                                                                                    The family were born again christians. She, in Scotland was forced to carry the child, have it and her older sister adopted. The girl was 13 or 14 at the time. The child who is a couple of years younger than me now has always been bitter towards her birth mother, said she wishes she had not had her etc.

                                                                                                                    I know it isn't the same, but it just makes you think sometimes. What would have been best all round.

                                                                                                                    Originally posted by ionapaul View Post
                                                                                                                    Is it fair to assume that most of those who are in favour of repeal do not believe that 'life' begins at conception, and that the reverse is true of those in favour of keeping the 8th?

                                                                                                                    Given that science has not and maybe cannot define when life begins, the waters must be so muddy for those who'd prefer to rely on hard science to guide them here! I wonder are there many who would view a foetus as being a fully valid human who are still OK with abortion, or does acceptance of abortion, however regrettable, require firm adherence to a 'a foetus is not alive' line?
                                                                                                                    I have been pregnant 9 times. I have had countless scans and as soon as I saw the heart beating I wanted that child. To me it was alive.
                                                                                                                    I am still in favour of a repeal. Even although I have my views on when life begins.

                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Mike Bullocks View Post
                                                                                                                    Plenty of people rear kids without getting married. It's not difficult to understand.

                                                                                                                    I myself got married but still don't see the need .
                                                                                                                    Maybe she felt she needed that security, maybe her folks were old fashioned?

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                                                                                                                      Originally posted by ionapaul View Post
                                                                                                                      Hmm - the thing is I don't believe that life is sacred or anything (I'm in favour of legalising euthanasia, don't have much a problem with capital punishment in certain circumstances), so the possibility of a human dying isn't as big an obstacle to me as it might be to others!

                                                                                                                      I just wonder do many people just not think about the tough questions out of a desire to keep things that much simpler for themselves. I lean that way myself to be honest. Same as not wanting to think about where my steak comes from or how sausages are made.
                                                                                                                      Interesting. Euthanasia is fine and so is capital punishment as they are both consequences of choices of rational adults make for themselves. I am fully on board with that.


                                                                                                                      The problem with this though is that you can't equate abortion with those two as there is an innocent unborn baby involved. The question is do we have a duty to protect his/her rights to live and where's the line?
                                                                                                                      No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.

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                                                                                                                        Originally posted by MrsFlushdraw View Post
                                                                                                                        For this reason, we need to repeal the 8th. Has the woman got to go through the whole police process if she is raped? will she believed? maybe she wants to let it quietly go away (the baby) as it will be a constant reminder. I have known of girls who got raped never telling the police. I know one who carried the child to term and my friends mum adopted her. The mum to this day can not stand the sight of the child.

                                                                                                                        The family were born again christians. She, in Scotland was forced to carry the child, have it and her older sister adopted. The girl was 13 or 14 at the time. The child who is a couple of years younger than me now has always been bitter towards her birth mother, said she wishes she had not had her etc.

                                                                                                                        I know it isn't the same, but it just makes you think sometimes. What would have been best all round.



                                                                                                                        I have been pregnant 9 times. I have had countless scans and as soon as I saw the heart beating I wanted that child. To me it was alive.
                                                                                                                        I am still in favour of a repeal. Even although I have my views on when life begins.



                                                                                                                        Maybe she felt she needed that security, maybe her folks were old fashioned?



                                                                                                                        Or maybe she got pregnant to trap the guy (is/was a thing) . Maybe he was in love with the idea he was going to be a daddy and didn’t think in his wildest nightmares she would go through with her threat. Maybe he should have married her and divorced years later but at least he still had a kid.

                                                                                                                        Plenty of maybes but still he lived his life like he was responsible for an abortion and never forgave himself. I’ve lost contact with the guy but I do know his circumstance and last time I had a beer with him he mentioned the kid over and over. (feel like I’ve betrayed him telling his story , however anonymously and rushed) . He was a victim of an unnecessary abortion only he suffered mentally as opposed to the sheer inhumanity of actually physically carrying a child to term. Maybe his experience clouds my judgement, maybe it opened my eyes.

                                                                                                                        The fact remains the man is not unscarred here and is entitled to his vote on the childs right. It’s moot to me now as apart from not being able to vote , I would actually repeal the 8th as the outdated dogma around it is borderline barbaric when it comes to the women’s actual health. Anyway off to a pub quiz . Have a nice weekend hoover dodgers.

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                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Hooch View Post
                                                                                                                          Did you look around here https://www.youtube.com/user/Channel4Racing/videos

                                                                                                                          What aspect of that days racing are you looking for??
                                                                                                                          I have a clip of the finish that c4 tweeted but it's the hour around the race c. 4.30 ->5:30
                                                                                                                          And the morning line from that day if it was there.

                                                                                                                          As I say I have it all on a sky box but I need to get it into a mp4 or whatever.
                                                                                                                          I might buy the capture card that's on eBay but not sure I'll get it in time.
                                                                                                                          Turning millions into thousands

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