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Old 01-08-10, 21:07   #21
pgodkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony3004 View Post
just wondering how people play hands like AQ/99/TT in early position early in tournies.

For instance if I make it 3x with AQc from UTG and get 3 callers. blinds 20/40 . theres 480 in the pot Flop is K105 rainbow. Are we still firing c-bet which will be 300 more from our 1500 stack.

this hand happened just while i was writing this message .


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 2.2 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 (t3105)
MP1 (t1450)
Hero (MP2) (t1285)
MP3 (t980)
CO (t1200)
Button (t1588)
SB (t2045)
BB (t1155)
UTG (t6152)

Hero's M: 17.13

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K, A
3 folds, Hero bets t200, MP3 calls t200, 4 folds

Flop: (t475) 7, 5, 7 (2 players)
Hero bets t300, MP3 raises to t780 (All-In), Hero calls t480

Turn: (t2035) 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t2035) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: t2035

Results:
Hero had K, A (one pair, sevens).
MP3 had Q, Q (full house, Queens over sevens).
Outcome: MP3 won t2035



not sure why i bet that amount considering his stacksize. should have pushed/ checked ?
Raise pre, check fold if you miss i also throw in some builling and bluffing early on it creates an image that could pay off later! alot of your actions depend on how your post flop game is, how your able to put players on hands and some times finding sweet two and three barrel spots that get them to fold worse, i cbet a lot in multi way pots at this level due to the fact the people have to think you have it if your leading into multi callers, although it does depend on my stack size and what i have behind if i have a pot sized bet behind im prob always shoving


Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianByrne View Post
How should hands such as 44-55-66 be played UTG in the first level of a tournament?
Do we limp in? do we raise/fold?
it depends on the following
1. Position
2. Stack size vs Blind level
3. No. of Limpers

when im UTG or early position i'll play anything above pocket 4's, if im the first to act i will normally raise in short stack games like Sng's i will normally make it 2.3 - 2.5x the blinds, In Later position if it has been limped in a few spot i will happliy limp pocket 22-88's in to catch my set cheap, 99+ i'm 3 betting pre, if im opening the pot i will just go ahead and pot it pre, if I'm 3/4 betted pre i will let go of everything bar 1010+ AQs unless the other person is a complet manic, if the stacks are deeper im know to call all 3 bets as i really do like playing flops!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Downtown View Post
I find alot of players play badly early on in tournaments.

Firstly the hands with the most value are all pairs. You should be excited about seeing 22+

I like to min raise in the first few levels, I will min raise with pairs, suited connectors. even if there have been 5 limpers and im in the BB with 44 i will min raise. I find that this does a few things, creates an image that i am always raising which lasts for the whole day. It builds a nice pot preflop against several players with hands that play great multiway. Gives me a chance to win a good pot and finally allows me to profitably call anyones 3 bets with hands designed to crack their massive hands.

I will do this for the 25-50,50-100, levels. after that i make it 2.5x

As for starting hands UTG and early, I will open with any pair if I have 30+BB's, same for suited connectors.
God i dont like alot of what your saying here, but your a decent enough player so it must work obv alot of how you play this comes down to post flop play, but min raising is bad when done pre i feel.

Last edited by pgodkin; 01-08-10 at 21:12.
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Old 01-08-10, 21:28   #22
BallymoreChris
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I'm sure Rory can come on here and speak for him self but I think he is minraising to isolate the blinds. ex if there is 2 limpers then you min raise you normally play the pot with the two limpers and maybe the BB.
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Old 01-08-10, 21:34   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BallymoreChris View Post
I'm sure Rory can come on here and speak for him self but I think he is minraising to isolate the blinds. ex if there is 2 limpers then you min raise you normally play the pot with the two limpers and maybe the BB.
Wat?

He has given the reasons why he min raises in his post. None of them were to iso anybody. The opposite, in fact, is true. He wants to build a pot with hands that play well in multi way pots.
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Old 01-08-10, 22:07   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BallymoreChris View Post
I'm sure Rory can come on here and speak for him self but I think he is minraising to isolate the blinds. ex if there is 2 limpers then you min raise you normally play the pot with the two limpers and maybe the BB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sligboi View Post
Wat?

He has given the reasons why he min raises in his post. None of them were to iso anybody. The opposite, in fact, is true. He wants to build a pot with hands that play well in multi way pots.
Yeah all im pointing out is that min raising pre is a mistake and i have seen no clear argurment for it anywhere in any written or online coaching sites!
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Old 01-08-10, 22:12   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgodkin View Post
Yeah all im pointing out is that min raising pre is a mistake and i have seen no clear argurment for it anywhere in any written or online coaching sites!
I'm not commenting on the merits of min raising but just pointing out thah his reasoning is in his post
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Old 02-08-10, 01:43   #26
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just saw this now.

I dont min raise all the time. depends on tournament. table, structure.

Say you have a 20k stack and hour blinds. blinds are 25-50.

I look down at 44 utg, I think min raising is great here. Get the same amount of callers I would get if I made it 150 or 50. Obv this depends on the table. I play a pot with 500 now in it on the flop as opposed to 250. Also I find people dont like it.

Also, same tourny. there has been a few limps. Im on the button with a pocket pair or suited connectors. I might min raise there. I know they will all call but i find the flop will check around to me alot. Basically its the same as limping early but you get control of the pot. Other benefits too.

I do it very rarely just something that is sometimes good. I only do it live btw. Again sometimes live I will open to 4x pre early. It just depends on factors that are hard to express. Live, I feel I have an edge post flop more so than online so doing things like this pre sometimes have merits.

I think anything that you do at a poker table that takes someone else out of their comfort zone and makes them play differently to the way they normally do is a good thing.
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Old 02-08-10, 14:52   #27
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Yeah try I do get what your saying but two things 1 is that the opening post is questions how to play 22-66 kj-aqo oop in tourneys where starting stacks are 1500 chips, stt


2. While I do like what you are trying to do with the raise in a live game I feel 3bb with do it better for a number of reasons:

1. We get players to put more in the pot out of position, as there tons of flops we can bluff or hit!
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Old 02-08-10, 16:17   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Downtown View Post
just saw this now.

I dont min raise all the time. depends on tournament. table, structure.

Say you have a 20k stack and hour blinds. blinds are 25-50.

I look down at 44 utg, I think min raising is great here. Get the same amount of callers I would get if I made it 150 or 50. Obv this depends on the table. I play a pot with 500 now in it on the flop as opposed to 250. Also I find people dont like it.

Also, same tourny. there has been a few limps. Im on the button with a pocket pair or suited connectors. I might min raise there. I know they will all call but i find the flop will check around to me alot. Basically its the same as limping early but you get control of the pot. Other benefits too.

I do it very rarely just something that is sometimes good. I only do it live btw. Again sometimes live I will open to 4x pre early. It just depends on factors that are hard to express. Live, I feel I have an edge post flop more so than online so doing things like this pre sometimes have merits.

I think anything that you do at a poker table that takes someone else out of their comfort zone and makes them play differently to the way they normally do is a good thing.
Do you min raise with 88+, AQ+ also? I know most live players can't hand read or read betsizes very well, but if you're against anyone capable you're going to be in trouble if you don't keep your sizing consistent with your entire range, no?
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Old 02-08-10, 16:40   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneymaker View Post
Do you min raise with 88+, AQ+ also? I know most live players can't hand read or read betsizes very well, but if you're against anyone capable you're going to be in trouble if you don't keep your sizing consistent with your entire range, no?
I think he's doing this in the first couple rounds when the whole table is new and unknown
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