Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.

[dobby]

That's probably the worst bad beat I've ever read in here...

Nah. Your wedding story took care of that for everyone

[Lao Lao]

Nah. Your wedding story took care of that for everyone

I've a wedding story?

[Lazare]

I bet Jacks a sound cunt and all

Met him at one of the IPB days out, the first one I think.

Pretty sure he came up with Finkel. Quiet, shy nice lad.

[rounders123]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7ggKF3D3xU

SPOILER

enter here

[Theresa]

I know. I don’t think anyone suggested otherwise

I didnt read back. My bad.

I also didnt mean to imply someone did.

Think of my statement as an independent shoutout to Mick.

also, how are ya?

[ComradeCollie]

Any word on who is replacing Cora Sherlock on the RTE debate today?

[Dice75]

Any word on who is replacing Cora Sherlock on the RTE debate today?

[Keane]

When's this on?

[ComradeCollie]

When's this on?

9.35

[Lazare]

Jumped into a No echo chamber on Facebook after a friend linked me to it a couple of days ago.

I was their Jack.

Jesus there was some mental midgetry. One guy said it was a pity I wasn't aborted. Lost his nut when I pointed out to him that meant he was in favour of abortion in certain circumstances and that he needs to vote Yes.

Another guy stalked my photos and found I had spelled Lansdowne road as Landsdown 10 years ago and made a big deal of it telling everyone else to check it out. (The original post was claiming to be an anonymous letter from someone with 24 years experience in the legal profession but was full of ridiculous grammar errors which I had used to call bullshit on it, was bullshit anyway).
I pointed out to him that he was an imbecile and he challenged me to a fight outside the GPO at 4.30pm. I said sure, and asked him what will he be wearing and he immediately deleted all his posts and fucked off.

Was fun.

[eamonhonda]

New chromebook purchased, touchscreen and google play store nice additions from my last one

[eamonhonda]

Jumped into a No echo chamber on Facebook after a friend linked me to it a couple of days ago.

youre a glutton for punishment

[Strewelpeter]

When Tobin says about the fetus being a human being I'd give anything for Simon to say 'So was Gerry McCabe, when you celebrated his murder'

[Strewelpeter]

Tobin: 'If you are going to take a human life the reason must be really profound'

You couldn't make that shit up

[Dice75]

I think you should be leaving political party bias out of this.

[Keane]

Harris is crushing tbf

[Lazare]

Harris is crushing tbf

He is excellent.

[Lazare]

Tobin: 'If you are going to take a human life the reason must be really profound'

You couldn't make that shit up

[LuckyLloyd]

'It's too extreme, they should have proposed narrower legislation just to deal with rape and FFE'
'Okay, if they did, would you support it?'
'Ehhhhh...I'd consider it'

FUCK OFF

Harris playing a blinder.

[Lazare]

Same lawyer and same GP rolled out on every TV debate or show on No side. Different face each time on Yes side. Telling.

[LuckyLloyd]

Whatever else about Katie Asccough she is always 100% on point in terms of the message she wants to deliver.

She has no future in politics peddling this type of platform though.

[elbows]

Some result having Harris vs Peader

[Lazare]

'It's too extreme, they should have proposed narrower legislation just to deal with rape and FFE'
'Okay, if they did, would you support it?'
'Ehhhhh...I'd consider it'

FUCK OFF

Harris playing a blinder.

That Healy Eames is a buffoon, a waste of oxygen.

[LuckyLloyd]

Some result having Harris vs Peader

Great outcome. Maria Steen has apparently pulled out of tomorrow night's debate on TV3 also. Rats leaving the sinking ship?

[LuckyLloyd]

Oh I'm with you there, but as soon as she gets a microphone she is on point in 3 words.

Well, she was ousted in UCD and hasn't played a prominent role in this campaign, the last stand for her ilk. It's a waste of a quick intellect.

[Pat Mustard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7ggKF3D3xU

SPOILER

enter here

Entered..knew 6 or 7 names off the whole thing. Odds on fav to ship it.

[Strewelpeter]

Most positive thing I have heard were some of the responses on an RTE radio vox pop this morning from a couple of rural women, natural No voters who are being persuaded by their children to vote yes and an 85 year old farmer who wanted to 'leave it to the women'.

On the down side there was a seven year who came home from their catholic school today and asked his mother what way was she going to vote in the 'Stabbing babies in the head thing'

[Pat Mustard]

Great outcome. Maria Steen has apparently pulled out of tomorrow night's debate on TV3 also. Rats leaving the sinking ship?

Ye probably..losing battle in fairness .but did you listen to Pat Kenny, really didn't give her a fair go on his show IMO. Boylan was pretty good but thought he cut across her a lot etc and didn't give her as much time ..maybe because she had taken up so much air time on Clare Byrne the orher night when Boylan got the opposite treatment.

Found both sides really lacking in people actually genuinely willing or capable of debating.Thought Steen was actually good in deflecting and anticipating what her opponents would use what they say back against them.. . Harris knocked it out of the park, thought was very direct structured answers and seemed very well prepared.

[Lazare]

Most positive thing I have heard were some of the responses on an RTE radio vox pop this morning from a couple of rural women, natural No voters who are being persuaded by their children to vote yes and an 85 year old farmer who wanted to 'leave it to the women'.

On the down side there was a seven year who came home from their catholic school today and asked his mother what way was she going to vote in the 'Stabbing babies in the head thing'

Saw a 'Farmers for Yes' video today that warmed the heart.

[Wombatman]

Was hoping someone on the Yes side would grow a set and call out this unborn child\ equal human being madness.

The abortion statistics form Iceland or the UK or wherever, that are quoted by the no side to horrify, are a refection of the decisions women make in those countries. Women not, evil demons for hell.

If anything these stats show that is is natural for women to desire an abortion in certain circumstances.

Why is Iceland close to becoming the first country where no-one gives birth to a child with Down's syndrome? Because given a choice that is what people want. Real people, not two headed, horned, monsters.

The only way humans gonna human is if you vote Yes.

[Mellor]

Why is Iceland close to becoming the first country where no-one gives birth to a child with Down's syndrome? Because given a choice that is what people want. Real people, not two headed, horned, monsters.

That Iceland statistic that gets banded about isn't actually true. It's repeated ad-nausum without source.
Close to 100% of people who do the test have an abortion if it's found. But that's hardly significant. Why else would they be doing the test in the first place.
The who don't do test, give birth to babies with Downs just like in any other country. Iceland isn't magic.

[pokerhand]

Was hoping someone on the Yes side would grow a set and call out this unborn child\ equal human being madness.

The abortion statistics form Iceland or the UK or wherever, that are quoted by the no side to horrify, are a refection of the decisions women make in those countries. Women not, evil demons for hell.

If anything these stats show that is is natural for women to desire an abortion in certain circumstances.

Why is Iceland close to becoming the first country where no-one gives birth to a child with Down's syndrome? Because given a choice that is what people want. Real people, not two headed, horned, monsters.

The only way humans gonna human is if you vote Yes.

You seriously saying that people with down syndrome are not real people?

[Mellor]

You seriously saying that people with down syndrome are not real people?

You seriously think that's what he said?

[pokerhand]

You seriously think that's what he said?

Looks that way.

[Iago]

You seriously saying that people with down syndrome are not real people?

You seriously think that's what he said?

Looks that way.

think tbf that the "real people, not two horned monsters" is talking about the difficult decisions potential parents would make.

as in the parents are real people, not monsters, if they decide that an abortion is the right decision for them at that point in their lives and with respect for all of the facts that they are in possession of.

[Lazare]

My jaysis this is outstanding.... (from fb)

One of my favourite subjects as a law student was Constitutional Law. And, one of my favourite topics in Constitutional Law was the backstory as to how the 8th Amendment ended up in our Constitution. After all, in 1983, there was already strict 19th century legislation still in force in Ireland, that outlawed abortion. So, why was the 8th Amendment so vigorously promoted and pursued by the fundamentalist Right in Ireland?

Well, it has to do with one simple fact: from the mid to late-1960s, the fundamentalist Right, including the Catholic Hierarchy, experienced their first major loss of control over the Irish State. The process of liberalization in Ireland truly can trace its origins back not to the 1990s but to the 1960s. In this decade, contrary to the opposition of the Catholic Hierarchy, the Government practically overturned the strict censorship rules that had, up til then, controlled the booklists of Irish readers. The Government, in the face of opposition from the Catholic Hierarchy, also introduced free second level education for all. Later, in the 1970s, the People passed a referendum removing the 'Special Position' of the Catholic Church from the Irish Constitution. Combine that with the growing influence and openness of television, and you had a lethal cocktail likely to alarm significant numbers of conservatives.

However, the straw that broke the camel's back came, when it was the other major bastion of conservatism, the Judiciary, that finally seemed to have abandoned them.

How did this happen and why is it related to the 8th Amendment?

Well, as you can imagine, because of our history of seeking independence from Britain, the American and Irish legal outlook was forged by certain similarities. For this reason, both have written Constitutions with a similar system of applying and interpreting them. It is not particularly surprising, therefore, that there has been a certain synergy between the two countries. In particular, from the mid-1960s, both the American and Irish Supreme Courts developed a new constitutional concept called (in Ireland) 'unenumerated rights'. This meant that, even if a right is not expressly written down in the Constitution, the Judges can look at the spirit of the Constitution overall and include or imply rights into it anyway. On one level, this may be criticized as unelected Judges making the Law. On the other hand, when you had an inactive and conservative Parliament or Dail, this had the effect of introducing rights that the politicians were unwilling or unable to enact. And, this is exactly what happened in Ireland and the United States from the early 1970s.

In this period, two of the most important unenumerated or implied constitutional rights that emerged were the right to bodily integrity and the right to privacy. In Ireland, in the early 1970s, a young married woman, McGee, managed to get the draconian contraception laws in Ireland struck down based on her right to 'marital privacy'. This was the famous case of McGee v Attorney General. What was particularly concerning, however, to the Catholic Hierarchy and the conservatives in this McGee judgment was the reasoning of the Irish Supreme Court itself. The Supreme Court held that the Constitution was a civil, secular document and the Supreme Court alone would interpret it. And, the Supreme Court would not get involved in choosing between different interpretations of religion or morality about how it should be applied. This meant that privacy was a constitutional right, regardless of which religious tradition disagreed with it or not. Effectively, in McGee, the Irish Supreme Court confirmed that Church and State were separate.

And, this is where our problem with the 8th begins. As a result of her victory, Mrs McGee and all other (married) Irish women were now entitled to decide, in privacy, whether to use contraception and become pregnant or not. Neither the State nor the Church had any right to interfere in her privacy and her decision about the control of her fertility.

As a result, there was significant alarm emerging among the Catholic Hierarchy and conservatives. Not only could the political system now not be trusted to fall in line with Catholic dogma (ie free education and the end to censorship as above). But, now the Judiciary, itself, was effectively removing control of Catholic teaching over the law of the land and, effectively, separating Church and State.

The Irish State could no longer be trusted to toe the line. And, for the first time, the judicially created rights of bodily integrity and privacy meant women, in Ireland (and the US), were acquiring full control over their bodies and fertility. In addition, as happened in McGee, the Supreme Courts of Ireland and the US confirmed that any legislation that got in the way of these new female rights would be struck down as unconstitutional.

In the US, privacy and bodily integrity for women culminated in the iconic decision of Roe v Wade.

And so, the 8th Amendment was designed to have a two-fold purpose. Firstly, to stop forever any further extension of the right to privacy or bodily integrity over pregnancy in Ireland. Secondly, by rousing the devout population against liberalization of abortion laws, the conservatives were sending out a message that the People were on their side. And, no further social liberalization by the Judiciary or even the Dail would be tolerated.

Effectively, the 8th Amendment was a reaction to the judicial emancipation of women in Ireland. The reason why it is important to remember this is because, listening to No Campaigners in recent weeks, you could be forgiven for believing that the 8th was placed in the Constitution to protect and support women when nothing could be further from the truth. It was precisely because these fundamentalist groups no longer trusted the political system, no longer trusted the judicial system to uphold their restrictive moral dogma over womens' rights that the 8th was promoted and manipulated into our Constitution in 1983. It was a fundamentally anti-woman movement based on a reaction against the very legal reforms that had so benefitted womens' reproductive rights under the Irish Constitution. In short, if the Supreme Court in 1974 had thrown Mrs McGee out, like so many other previous Supreme Courts would have done, there would have been no 8th and all would have been well with the world.

This did not happen. Mrs McGee won. And, the 8th was a direct reaction against this.

This Friday we have an opportunity to remove this stain on our legal system. A historical legacy that has no place in the modern Republic we have become. And, having done so, women will be restored to that path of emancipation so courageously prepared for them by the Irish Supreme Court in the early 1970s and will walk a little taller on the 26th of May for having done so.

[Mellor]

Looks that way.

No it doesn't tbh.

Because given a choice that is what people want. Real people, not two headed, horned, monsters.

Basic syntax. Real people refers to the people, two words prior.

He's saying that abortion in that situation is a decision made by "real people, not by monsters".
He's not saying that people want "real [babies] not horned monsters".

I see the way you were reading it. But I didn't think it was anyway ambiguous tbh. Kinda Jackesque to misconstrue it like that.

[MrsFlushdraw]

Great outcome. Maria Steen has apparently pulled out of tomorrow night's debate on TV3 also. Rats leaving the sinking ship?

Ah for fuck sake Lloyd. Please don't BBV this one!

I actually think the No fkrs are going to win this one

[Keane]

I'm fully convinced that yes is a shoo-in at this stage.

[pokerhand]

Fair enough, I was reading it as a whole and took it the other.

Mea culpa.

[Keane]

Was there a discussion here about powerline wifi adapters lately? Any consensus on a good model?

On the phone so can't search

[Keane]

Was there a discussion here about powerline wifi adapters lately? Any consensus on a good model?

On the phone so can't search

[Kayroo]

My jaysis this is outstanding.... (from fb)

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/why-ireland-became-the-only-country-in-the-democratic-world-to-have-a-constitutional-ban-on-abortion-1.1907610

Fintan O'Toole ends this article by commenting that most of the Pro-Life Amendment Campaign (PLAC) have left public life.

Most of PLAC went on to become the Pro-Life Committee (PLC). The members include Cora Sherlock, William Binchy (who was prominent in the 1983 campaign) and Joe McCarroll (who campaigned against the decriminalisation of homosexuality).

Reading the history of these guys is infuriating. They've been on the wrong side of everything.

[Keane]

Same as Patricia Casey, the psychiatrist who doesn't think mental health is a real thing.

[MrsFlushdraw]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/poli...tion-1.1907610


Fintan O'Toole ends this article by commenting that most of the Pro-Life Amendment Campaign (PLAC) have left public life.

Most of PLAC went on to become the Pro-Life Committee (PLC). The members include Cora Sherlock, William Binchy (who was prominent in the 1983 campaign) and Joe McCarroll (who campaigned against the decriminalisation of homosexuality).

Reading the history of these guys is infuriating. They've been on the wrong side of everything.

I was reading this morning that many pro life people actually believe that the law changing will force woman that are pregnant with a child that will require money spent on them will be forced to have an abortion! to save on €€€

That is just fucking mental!

This was her post

" Ger if we vote yes the government can write what ever the hell they like law on it. They have not stated as to what they are changing it to. So for women who have a child who could have special needs could be forced to abort them to save government money on care for them. You see it already in other countries how you hardly ever see a person with down syndrome. Why is that.. was it their CHOICE or the governement/laws choice. I still have my other thought and belief on it and as you well know it's damn all to do with religion. And I have nothing against gays marrying. Don't know why you keep bringing that up. I may live in donegal but I am myself and have my own reasons for voting no. What would have happened to both órlaith and luke if it was taken away. The hospitals has to try keep them alive by given us injections to help induce their lungs had to monitor us to save our babies. If it's scrapped will it turn out to just "ah let nature take its course" unless we have private health insurance or pay thousands to stay in hospital to get the care our babies needed."

[KevIRL]

I'm fully convinced that yes is a shoo-in at this stage.

Agree. The surprise after this referendum will be the winning margin for yes.

[Strewelpeter]

Was there a discussion here about powerline wifi adapters lately? Any consensus on a good model?

On the phone so can't search

I use a cheapish TP-Link model, works fine 95% of the time, would need to restart it about once every 10 days or so.

[Strewelpeter]

I'm fully convinced that yes is a shoo-in at this stage.

Much more confident than before recent setbacks but after Trump and particularly Brexit you cannot underestimate the stupidity of the voting public or the cynicism of the No side. No relaxing until Saturday.

[Silver-Tiger]

Still uneasy about the thoughts of a no vote winning. Don't feel 1/10th as strongly as some people but quite anxious about it. I'd say some people are in bits waiting for it to end.

[The Situation]

Is there going to be celebrations if this passes? Seems a weird one. Like I'm firmly Yes but a more dignified reaction seems appropriate considering the subject matter.

[eamonhonda]

Is there going to be celebrations if this passes? Seems a weird one. Like I'm firmly Yes but a more dignified reaction seems appropriate considering the subject matter.

I can see what you mean, but nobody will be celebrating the legalisation of abortion, women will be celebrating having equal rights as the rest of the eu, celebrating having full control of their bodies for the first time in country. Don't think we could deny them that.

The no side will point the finger for the couple of days saying murder is being celebrated I'm sure.

Let's get the yes first tho, feel wrong talking like it's an assumed result just yet.

[Kayroo]

" Ger if we vote yes the government can write what ever the hell they like law on it. They have not stated as to what they are changing it to. So for women who have a child who could have special needs could be forced to abort them to save government money on care for them. You see it already in other countries how you hardly ever see a person with down syndrome. Why is that.. was it their CHOICE or the governement/laws choice. I still have my other thought and belief on it and as you well know it's damn all to do with religion. And I have nothing against gays marrying. Don't know why you keep bringing that up. I may live in donegal but I am myself and have my own reasons for voting no. What would have happened to both órlaith and luke if it was taken away. The hospitals has to try keep them alive by given us injections to help induce their lungs had to monitor us to save our babies. If it's scrapped will it turn out to just "ah let nature take its course" unless we have private health insurance or pay thousands to stay in hospital to get the care our babies needed."

That is some truly superb bullshit right there.

[TheJiggaman]

Lauryn Hill playing the 02 in Dublin 30th November

Will be going - hopefully it isn't the kind of thing she pulls out of last minute

[MrsFlushdraw]

That is some truly superb bullshit right there.

That is what we are up against. You should have seen what the message she copied onto her status was. One I have seen going viral and it's even worse horseshit than that!

[Ed]

Lauryn Hill playing the 02 in Dublin 30th November

Will be going - hopefully it isn't the kind of thing she pulls out of last minute

Saw her in Sweden two years ago, was great (if a little temperamental)

[eamonhonda]

Lauryn Hill playing the 02 in Dublin 30th November

Will be going - hopefully it isn't the kind of thing she pulls out of last minute

Wow, when are tickets out

[Ed]

Wow, when are tickets out

Friday for general, 3 presale tomorrow

[TheJiggaman]

Wow, when are tickets out

3 presale on now

General Sale on Friday.

Will just get them 9am Friday in fear they sell out (I don't think they would)

V excited! Playing Miseducation in full!!

[eamonhonda]

3 presale on now

General Sale on Friday.

Will just get them 9am Friday in fear they sell out (I don't think they would)

V excited! Playing Miseducation in full!!

This is the best news I've heard in a while.

I don't remember last time I was excited about a gig announcement, she probably won't turn up.

[Denny Crane]

Is there going to be celebrations if this passes? Seems a weird one. Like I'm firmly Yes but a more dignified reaction seems appropriate considering the subject matter.

I've seen a few events organised in a celebratory way. Be curious to see what they're like if it didn't pass.