Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.

[Guest]

On a completely unrelated note, this looks interesting:

[AndyFatBastard]

I have found her quite good the couple of times I've heard her question the likes of Elliott Abrams.

In what previous situations do you think she's crossed the line?

This the first result on Google and is from Vox so it's a left wing source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox...-semitism-jews

[AndyFatBastard]

Agreed she was very impressive questioning Elliot Abrams btw.

[Strewelpeter]

This the first result on Google and is from Vox so it's a left wing source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox...-semitism-jews

Did you actually read that article? I'm not sure it is saying what you think it is

In any case its really just an opinion piece centered is this quote

What I’m fearful of — because Rashida [Tlaib] and I are Muslim — that a lot of our Jewish colleagues, a lot of our constituents, a lot of our allies, go to thinking that everything we say about Israel to be anti-Semitic because we are Muslim. And so to me, it’s something that becomes designed to end the debate because you get in this space of — yes, I know what intolerance looks like and I’m sensitive when someone says, “The words you used, Ilhan, are resemblance [sic] of intolerance.” And I am cautious of that and I feel pained by that.

But it’s almost as if, every single time we say something regardless of what it is we say that is supposed to be about foreign policy or engagement or advocacy about ending oppression or the freeing of every human life and wanting dignity, we get to be labeled something, and that ends the discussion. Because we end up defending that and nobody ever gets to have the broader debate of what is happening with Palestine. So for me, I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is okay for people to push for allegiance to a foreign country. And I want to ask, why is it okay for me to talk about the influence of the NRA, of fossil fuel industries, or Big Pharma, and not talk about a powerful lobby?

Some reach for anyone who to parse antisemitism out of that

[Guest]

I totally agree that she has made some distasteful comments stretching back a number of years and culminating in her "All about the benjamins" tweet a few months ago.
She was correctly lambasted on both sides of the aisle and she issued an apology as a result. That is not something that is generally done by others who have made equally or worse racially charged comments in US politics.

Largely though, I'm simply a tad confused what meets the criteria for habitual line stepper in US politics tbh.
The frequency of her comments which could be construed as racially charged seem to pale in comparison to a number of contemporaries.
If she's a habitual line stepper, then I suspect she is not remotely alone in that group.

[Solksjaer!]

Terrible Friday Dad Joke (I'm a corny joke sadist).
An Arab man and a Cork man were walking through the desert...

Arab man says: "I'm going to build a city here"

The Cork man says: "Do Bai"

Funny wha wha wha ?

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[Hectorjelly]

Haven't really followed it, but is Andy going to be our new Denny for upcoming US election?

Dennys not a true believer

[6starpool]

Did you actually read that article? I'm not sure it is saying what you think it is

In any case its really just an opinion piece centered is this quote



Some reach for anyone who to parse antisemitism out of that

It seems like the line for calling some anti semitic now is disagreeing with anything Israel does. Criticise them for killing 50 civilians after someone threw a rock at a soldier? Anti semitic.

[hotspur]

Anyone who believes that Trump is a true racist is greatly overestimating him imo.

[Solksjaer!]

Anyone who believes that Trump is a true racist is greatly overestimating him imo.

I greatly overestimate him in this regard . Also his daddy

[AndyFatBastard]

Did you actually read that article? I'm not sure it is saying what you think it is

In any case its really just an opinion piece centered is this quote



Some reach for anyone who to parse antisemitism out of that

You haven't understood what I'm saying. You seem to think I'm defending Trump and the things he said. The only part of Trump's rant that was true is that Ilhan Omar has a habit of saying antisemitic things, getting lambasted for it, apologising, then doing it again a few months later. As for the piece, I pretty much agree with everything in it including the bit you quoted. But there's also this bit:

If you’re not careful when talking about pro-Israel lobbying, you can provide ammunition to some awful people. By suggesting that pro-Israel lobbying constitutes a push for “allegiance” to a foreign country, Omar was suggesting that an activity disproportionately conducted by Jews is essentially disloyal, making a fundamentally anti-Semitic idea more acceptable to voice on the left.

“She may think she is only criticizing Israel and its policies,” Deborah Lipstadt, an Emory University professor and leading scholar of anti-Semitism, told Jewish Insider. “But one cannot ignore the fact that she is relying on traditional anti-Semitic tropes to do so.”

I'm not pro-Trump. I just capable of recognising what he's saying and why he's saying it. You and HJ need to stop thinking in this "with us or against us" manner. It's really hurting your cause.

[Raoul Duke III]

The best thing that the Dems could do is stop reacting to Trump's BS.

Why get in the gutter with a rat?

And why let junior members of Congress be the most widely known Dems in the land? Tell them to STFU and get some message discipline.

[Hectorjelly]

I'm not pro-Trump. I just capable of recognising what he's saying and why he's saying it. You and HJ need to stop thinking in this "with us or against us" manner. It's really hurting your cause.

But alas, we lack the wisdom and life experience that would allow such an astute take on events.

[AndyFatBastard]

But alas, we lack the wisdom and life experience that would allow such an astute take on events.

Yeah real mature reaction m8

[Hectorjelly]

That's exactly what you are implying.

I quote: "I (sic) just capable of recognising what he's saying..."

I'm not sure why you even bother engaging with people like us, who operate on a much lower level of consciousness - no matter how carefully you explain we aren't going to get it. Perhaps if you used a diagram with a nice big font we might understand the very subtle difference between being a racist and defending racist rhetoric.

[Strewelpeter]

You haven't understood what I'm saying. You seem to think I'm defending Trump and the things he said. The only part of Trump's rant that was true is that Ilhan Omar has a habit of saying antisemitic things, getting lambasted for it, apologising, then doing it again a few months later. As for the piece, I pretty much agree with everything in it including the bit you quoted. But there's also this bit:



I'm not pro-Trump. I just capable of recognising what he's saying and why he's saying it. You and HJ need to stop thinking in this "with us or against us" manner. It's really hurting your cause.

Ah no I get what you're saying perfectly clearly, I just think that its an enormous stretch to parse anything she has said as being anti semitic.

I'm still at a loss to understand which bits are the problem

As is said there speaking about Israel is a minefield and she negotiates it reasonably well IMO unlike for instance the british Labour party who I have no problem recognising as having a small but very real undercurrent of antisemitism that they are failing to be able to speak about Palestine without stirring up.

As regards which side are you on, we all know why he's doing it but that is nothing close to an excuse. If you think its not a binary choice between being complicit in accepting blatant and unapologetic racism from the POTUS and the damage he is doing to civil society not just in the US but here in Ireland and across Europe by making his behaviour a norm then you are just wrong and need urgently to get out and talk to some of the people who are living at the pointy end about whether they think his behaviour is having any effect on their day to day lives.

[AndyFatBastard]

That's exactly what you are implying.

I quote: "I (sic) just capable of recognising what he's saying..."

I'm not sure why you even bother engaging with people like us, who operate on a much lower level of consciousness - no matter how carefully you explain we aren't going to get it. Perhaps if you used a diagram with a nice big font we might understand the very subtle difference between being a racist and defending racist rhetoric.

There isn't a big enough for that. Grow up.

[Strewelpeter]

The best thing that the Dems could do is stop reacting to Trump's BS.

Why get in the gutter with a rat?

I think a line was been crossed last weekend.

[AndyFatBastard]

Was watching an old episode of The Bill earlier and had forgotton how much AndyFB looks like Ken Drummond.

Sorry for the random thoughts.

Never got that one before. It's a step up from Eoin McLove I guess.

https://thebill.fandom.com/wiki/Ken_Drummond

Cause of Death: Explosion

Must have been that waffer thin after dinner mint.

[Lao Lao]

Every Israeli I've met (and there have been a few) has been an absolute cunt of the highest order.

Does that make me anti semitic?

[Raoul Duke III]

Every Israeli I've met (and there have been a few) has been an absolute cunt of the highest order.

Does that make me anti semitic?

As long as you met various Christian, Druze, Muslim and atheist Israeli cunts then you should be OK.

[Raoul Duke III]

I think a line was been crossed last weekend.

Just go down the 'we expect a higher standard from the person who occupies the Oval Office, sadly the current incumbent has no standards' route.

Said by someone like Pelosi. Keep the 'squad' confined to their training wheels for now.

[Theresa]

Every Israeli I've met (and there have been a few) has been an absolute cunt of the highest order.

Does that make me anti semitic?

Same experience here. And I think we prob had the same locations for our experiences too. Maybe its SE Asia, and not actual Israelis.

[Theresa]

I'm still at a loss to understand which bits are the problem

Me too. Andy can you provide some example of comments she's made that you think are anti semetic? maybe I missed something.

[RichieM]

Anyone who believes that Trump is a true racist is greatly overestimating him imo.

He only sees the colour of money

[Guest]

Every Israeli I've met (and there have been a few) has been an absolute cunt of the highest order.

Does that make me anti semitic?

Half our team is in Tel Aviv and I have been there a number of times over the past 12 months as well as collaborating with them on a daily basis and I have the complete opposite experience.

Extremely welcoming, very helpful and just generally all round a smart group of people.
Perhaps knowing someone professionally and personally is different but I have found them nothing but nice people tbh.

[Rufio]

I've encountered a very small sample of Israeli's over the course of my life, but the experience has always been overwhelmingly negative, I drew a lot of comparison to some Afrikaner Saffers that I met/played rugby with.
I felt like there was an element of thuggishness about them, a nasty streak if you will. The Israeli's certainly had a superiority complex, but I suppose what can you expect from a group of people who have been told that they are God's chosen people

I do think that they have some stunningly beautiful women though.

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[Raoul Duke III]

Heard that a lot. By contrast every Muslim I've met (work with so many) has been amazing. Like absolute salt of the earth.

That's a line crossed. 20% of Israelis are Muslim.

Are they 'cunts' (as you've heard that a lot) or 'amazing'? Square that circle.

[Raoul Duke III]

Same experience here. And I think we prob had the same locations for our experiences too. Maybe its SE Asia, and not actual Israelis.

Aren't they usually on their post-army break when there? That's probably your answer, takes a while for soldiers to readjust.

[Solksjaer!]

Every Israeli I've met (and there have been a few) has been an absolute cunt of the highest order.

Does that make me anti semitic?

I found the same with IPBers. Some of them wore it as a badge of honour . Pity as I'm so sound myself.

[mcnugget]

Every Israeli I've met (and there have been a few) has been an absolute cunt of the highest order.

Does that make me anti semitic?

Seeing as we're playing the 'make massive national stereotype based on a tiny sample size' game, every white South African I've met has been overbearing, arrogant and obnoxious.

[Theresa]

Seeing as we're playing the 'make massive national stereotype based on a tiny sample size' game, every white South African I've met has been overbearing, arrogant and obnoxious.

Fully aware of sample size, fully aware is a stereotype. Facts are facts though. I would have no issue changing my mind if I came across a sound Israeli.

Hens teeth imo.

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[hotspur]

He only sees the colour of money

The idea that he identifies with any other people on any attribute, race or other, is to underestimate the phenomenal solipsistic depth of his narcissism imo. There is only his ego and the binary and temporary assignment of others in a category based on that.

We thought George W. was bad with his line of being either with us or against us on the war on terror relating to international action. Trump has reduced this to being either with him or against him relating to his ego.

Trump saying the most hurtful things he can to people he narcissistically rages against in his viewing them as against him is then the personal equivalent to Bush's international wars.

But I'm mixing two points here. The first is that I don't believe Trump truly sees and has fixed views on groups of people. He is a sociopath as Tony Schwartz, who ghost wrote The Art of the Deal and spent 18 months with him, has said. He told how everyone was in a binary category of either being the greatest or a complete low life loser with him.

If you're in the latter due to offending his ego or getting in the way then he will bully and insult them in the most hurtful way possible. That is actually more regressive than being a racist, misogynist, homophobe etc.

But here's the thing, and my second point. Because the guy, whilst being truly a terrible example of a human being, is so entirely self-centred then his not really being orientated to or identifying with groups of other people will disincline him from international military action.

He is personally dreadful, an unfortunate (and I think accidental) figure at this point in history with ring wing populism / illiberal democracy, but he isn't actively promoting or waging wars killing hundreds of thousands of people.

If we could just stop hand wringing, worried that his behaviour is ushering in a culture of us all turning into horrible pricks, we could just view him as exactly what he is, carry on being decent ourselves, and be glad he doesn't have the interest or attentional capacity to try to militarily reshape global politics.

Let him build a hotel on Mars instead.

[Rufio]

Seeing as we're playing the 'make massive national stereotype based on a tiny sample size' game, every white South African I've met has been overbearing, arrogant and obnoxious.

I already mentioned the saffers in my post, do I win something?

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[Rufio]

Anecdotally, a lot of escorts (prostitutes) in Australia won't see any Irishmen as clients. Make of that what you will.

And for the avoidance of doubt, I've never tried to engage the services of an escort, I've never even been to Australia.

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[Raoul Duke III]

Seeing as we're playing the 'make massive national stereotype based on a tiny sample size' game, every white South African I've met has been overbearing, arrogant and obnoxious.

Point of order: that's a racial stereotype.

Having been there about a hundred times and having met more South Africans than the rest of you combined, I feel confident in dismissing your opinion.

[Theresa]

Anecdotally, a lot of escorts (prostitutes) in Australia won't see any Irishmen as clients. Make of that what you will.

And for the avoidance of doubt, I've never tried to engage the services of an escort, I've never even been to Australia.

Is this true? Why? Thats interesting...

[Raoul Duke III]

Is this true? Why? Thats interesting...

Because we have such enormous cocks, duh

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[bohsman]

There's an Israeli owned gaming company over here and they send a guy over with a lie detector every few months and grill the staff on their drug and work habits.

On the other hand the one Israeli I know is a very sound poker dealer.

[Raoul Duke III]

Sample size of one agrees!

Only if you typed that with your penis.

Hmmm, let me try:

Ruhsgkb,4^*/6ybguvthkddv358*'r/*"5

I seem to be dicksylexic.

[hotspur]

I had a negative view of Lebanese colleagues when I worked in the Middle East. But when you start to list those you think are mostly cnuts - Northern Irish, Jewish Israeli, White South African etc., you begin to see a pattern.

All things arise in dependence upon conditions. I guess living amidst such deep division, violence, distrust, and social trauma does not conduce to being sound to strangers.

Oh, and I used to be friendly with the Israeli National Team of a game I used to play, and I liked them.

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[Raoul Duke III]

I had a negative view of Lebanese colleagues when I worked in the Middle East. But when you start to list those you think are mostly cnuts - Northern Irish, Jewish Israeli, White South African etc., you begin to see a pattern.

All things arise in dependence upon conditions. I guess living amidst such deep division, violence, distrust, and social trauma does not conduce to being sound to strangers.

Oh, and I used to be friendly with the Israeli National Team of a game I used to play, and I liked them.

Suspiciously coy there Mister Spur....

[Raoul Duke III]

Lebanese are famously amazing. I love them. Dodgy as fuck though.

You didn't come back to me with your opinion of Israeli Muslims.

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[Raoul Duke III]

Don't have an opinion of them.

Odd.

Heard that a lot. By contrast every Muslim I've met (work with so many) has been amazing. Like absolute salt of the earth.

he politics of Israel, voted by the 80% majority, is awful.

I love Jewish people fwiw. Just don't like Israel and all the genocidal things it does.

Presumably you would apply the same commemt to all the appalling Islamic countries out there?

[Raoul Duke III]

The stat I most love is that 80% of Jewish people in America would vote to give themselves a tax increase in order to help raise social payments for everyone else. Hence why they almost all vote Democrat.

How cool is that?

But that's highly separate to what horrific things Israelis do on a daily basis

But all those nice Jewish Democrats are all also strong supporters of Israel. So can you really separate them and put them in your 'nice Jew' box?

You see the path your ill-informed generalisations lead you down. Being caught in your own logic trap is not a good place.

[hotspur]

Suspiciously coy there Mister Spur....

Oh I've talked about it on here before, it's just a bit geeky is all, hence coyness. Card game Magic the Gathering that was a gateway drug into poker.

[hotspur]

Don't have an opinion of them. The politics of Israel, voted by the 80% majority, is awful.

I love Jewish people fwiw. Just don't like Israel and all the genocidal things it does.

Oh come on. We don't all have to be racists, but who loves Jewish people?

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[Raoul Duke III]

Countdown to Raoul posting stats of how much American Jewish people love the existence of Israel (obv), not how much they support Israeli government policy.

Just check out every Democratic electoral platform since 1948 and policy towards Israel therein. Strongly supportive. Your 'nice Jews' vote that ticket.

You might remember when Obama tried giving Israeli policy a bit of a mild reset. Didn't fly. The pro-Irael lobby went nuts.