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FT 22bb shove 99

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    FT 22bb shove 99

    This hand has caused a bit of a debate so just want to get further thoughts on it.

    Villain is a laggy type player who floats quite frequent and does not normally call too light, I have 1.2k hands on him. The rest of the players have 10-15 bb's so there is no one super short.

    I went for the 22bb shove as I am picking up a nice enough pot without having to play out a board which is not going to be good to us a lot of the time.

    This is the formally €10r €8k, now €5k
    IPoker No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7,000/14,000 Blinds (7 handed) - IPoker Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

    CO (t1,226,792)
    Hero (Button) (t322,905)
    SB (t140,412)
    BB (t145,123)
    UTG (t204,080)
    MP1 (t151,140)
    MP2 (t204,548)

    Hero's M: 15.38

    Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, 9
    3 folds, CO raises t28,000, Hero raises t321,505, 2 folds,

    SPOILER
    CO calls t293,505

    Flop: (t664,010) 10, A, 2 (2 players)

    Turn: (t664,010) 5 (2 players)

    River: (t664,010) 10 (2 players)

    Total pot: t664,010

    Results below:
    SPOILER

    Hero had 9, 9 (two pair, tens and nines).
    CO had J, A (two pair, Aces and tens).
    Outcome: CO won t673,810

    #2
    Don't understand why shove, given stack sizes, 3b/c or 3b/f if either blinds shove and OR calls.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by brady23 View Post
      Don't understand why shove, given stack sizes, 3b/c or 3b/f if either blinds shove and OR calls.
      I don't like this at all. In fact I couldn't agree with any of it.

      Firstly we don't really want the monster stack to pile KQ's, QJ's etc down our throats. I also think shoving makes our hand look much weaker than it actually is and could induce a call from alot worse. It's gonna be very difficult to fold 66 here if we get piled on and we're the c/o.

      Don't think we can fold if we 3-bet and the blinds shove given their stacks. We make it say 56k. The blinds are gonna be shoving effectively 10bb and we have 3-bet. We're getting a disgustingly good price. We're getting close to 2/1.

      Is there no antes in this tournie?

      Comment


        #4
        im shoving here 100% of the time

        Comment


          #5
          Seems super standard. What are others debating?

          Comment


            #6
            Never said fold if blinds shove but rather fold if blinds shove and OR calls, I would think a 3b/c if shoved by OR seems standard enough, 22bbs is alot to shove imo.
            Shoving is obviously profitable but would think 3/c is more efficient is all

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by peterswellman View Post
              I don't like this at all. In fact I couldn't agree with any of it.

              Firstly we don't really want the monster stack to pile KQ's, QJ's etc down our throats. I also think shoving makes our hand look much weaker than it actually is and could induce a call from alot worse. It's gonna be very difficult to fold 66 here if we get piled on and we're the c/o.

              Don't think we can fold if we 3-bet and the blinds shove given their stacks. We make it say 56k. The blinds are gonna be shoving effectively 10bb and we have 3-bet. We're getting a disgustingly good price. We're getting close to 2/1.

              Is there no antes in this tournie?
              Its 99 and not 66 btw, this paticular player would'nt normally be shoving JQs and that, maybe KQs, I have got my fair bit of respect from this player in the past, he should know that I am very rarley shoving light shoving versus him, it's my 1st time on a FT with him but previous to this I have been getting a fair bit of 3bet respect from him but with stack sizes and FT dinamics things change.

              Ante is 1400 btw

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by LTL View Post
                Seems super standard. What are others debating?
                Its about 60/40 in favour of my play but just said I would stick it up here and see what ye all think.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I shove. Shrug... What are the 40% advocating?
                  Carl Sagan - Pale Blue Dot

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Shoving, dont really want to induce peels or broadway jams. Obv 3b-induce is fine deeper to get smaller PP's to shove and with a higher spr post, but 66+ should be calling your jam here anyway. Flatting pre to induce blind jams has merit but CO will iso a lot and we cant really fold so kind of meh.
                    "c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Winning! View Post
                      Shoving, dont really want to induce peels or broadway jams. Obv 3b-induce is fine deeper to get smaller PP's to shove and with a higher spr post, but 66+ should be calling your jam here anyway. Flatting pre to induce blind jams has merit but CO will iso a lot and we cant really fold so kind of meh.
                      This.

                      As a matter of interest. If stack sizes remain the same for the rest but we have say 600k, are you 3 betting to induce light 4 bets from cutoff or flatting and calling down light flop/turn bets on say 1086/2.

                      I'm always flatting if stacks are as suggested and calling down light given most good regs are gonna barrel but might be a leak of mine.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Shove all day long
                        Go big or go homeless.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by mdoug View Post
                          Shove all day long
                          agree, easy shove.
                          hit the showers

                          Comment


                            #14
                            'S all good

                            Shoving is optimal I'd say. Too short to 3 bet, you can't worry about the blinds there so short ie. if you flat and the blinds shove you have to call if CO folds. You call and you will have to fold to too many c-bets, as you said a lot of bad flops for 99s. If the villain is being agro in position your going to pick up a lot of uncontested pots when you shove. Tbh I think stack sizes play this, so well played.

                            Comment

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