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KK first hand in Voodoo tourney

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    KK first hand in Voodoo tourney

    First hand in €40 Friday Voodoo tournament. Villain is a regular there who is a solid fairly ABC player. This is a team event, usually fairly tight(for the voodoo) as players want to score points.

    Stacks 8000
    Blinds 25/50

    Villain (UTG+1) raises 150
    called by pos 7
    Hero(pos 6) has KK and raises to 650.
    Folded around to Villain who flats and the other player folds.

    Flop is 8c 4h 2h

    Villain checks. Hero raises 850. Villain considers and reraises to 2050.

    Hero???
    Carl Sagan - Pale Blue Dot

    #2
    Originally posted by Fiend View Post

    Villain checks. Hero bets 850. Villain considers and raises to 2050.

    Hero???
    FYP.

    I probably call and get it in on the turn

    Comment


      #3
      Call, call turn shove or else shove yourself.

      a heart turn would suck though, do you have the Kh?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by emmet02 View Post
        Call, call turn shove or else shove yourself.

        a heart turn would suck though, do you have the Kh?
        Yes Kh. I am actually the villain here
        Carl Sagan - Pale Blue Dot

        Comment


          #5
          Im happy to get it in now - there are too many cards that kill action/make you hate life in the deck so just ship now and stack overpairs/FD imo
          Last edited by Bubbleking; 19-07-10, 16:16.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Fiend View Post
            Yes Kh. I am actually the villain here
            I was shocked this hand played out as it did to be honest
            People say I should be more humble I hope they understand, they don't listen when you mumble
            Get a shiny metal Revolut card! And a free tenner!
            https://revolut.com/referral/jamesb8!G10D21

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
              Im happy to get it in now - there are too many cards that kill action/make you hate life in the deck so just ship now and stack overpairs/FD imo
              I think this is best too if we are going to stack off, if we flat here our hand is face up, our only way to stack QQ and a flush draw is to get it in on the flop. Saying that I might just fold here tbh this deep in a tournie.
              "Don't overcomplicate a straight forward game with mathematical bullshit and dicussing different lines with your geeky friends" Chris Olaafson

              Comment


                #8
                Well after a long consideration he folds to my reraise showing his KK. I have to show him my 88 for top set. I had him on AA or KK and was set mining. Didnt think he could fold. What a hero! I probably should have flatted but I thought I could stack him right there or on the turn. NH WP sir.
                Carl Sagan - Pale Blue Dot

                Comment


                  #9
                  Silly fold imo unless he had a soul read on you.
                  Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                  I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                  None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    1st time on here n happen to see this...
                    that was me holding kk. dont think it was that silly of a fold.
                    thought long n hard n decided i was beat.

                    nice 1 for showing.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      So you decided his range was solely sets??
                      Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                      I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                      None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I think it was a bad call preflop. Set mining for 650 from an 8000 stack is bad imo. One guy who has had some good results said to me he thought it was ok to do it sometimes because you can get away if you don't hit etc. And he was actually talking about a much higher percentage of his stack than in this case.
                        This is what I would highlight as not to do with this hand rather than question whether the fold is good or not.
                        FWIW in my experience given the action preflop and now when villain raises on the flop this early in a tournament they pretty much always have one pair beaten. Unless it's a complete aggrofish and you have reads from playing them before.

                        I was playing in JP's monthly game a few weeks ago which is a 30k starting stack and at the 50/100 level a guy managed to get it all in on a K high flop with AK v's a set. The player in question is an uberfish though and this is the exception rather than the rule imo.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Yeah preflop is bad, i insta fold 8s to the 3bet.

                          As a general rule dont fold overpairs in live weekly tournaments.

                          I had a somewhat similar hand to this in the Fitz EOM last month with KK on a 972f, guy raised called it off with A9. Live donks think top pair is awesome.
                          Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                          I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                          None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by gorrrr72 View Post
                            I think it was a bad call preflop. Set mining for 650 from an 8000 stack is bad imo
                            I think this is fine.
                            ''Oh my god, I'm dropping shit like a pigeon
                            I hope you're listening, smacking babies at their christening''

                            Comment


                              #15
                              875 in the middle.
                              500 to call.
                              7350 behind.

                              16.45/1 implied, meh.
                              Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                              I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                              None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Starvin Marvin View Post
                                Yeah preflop is bad, i insta fold 8s to the 3bet.

                                As a general rule dont fold overpairs in live weekly tournaments.

                                I had a somewhat similar hand to this in the Fitz EOM last month with KK on a 972f, guy raised called it off with A9. Live donks think top pair is awesome.
                                Yeah I know there is an element of that but the 1st or 2nd level in a tourney not many people are stacking off with top pair or overpairs.
                                I was playing the Fitz EOM and the guy sitting beside me was very aggro with top pair. He got a guy to lay down KK on a J high flop with AJ by checkraising to 6k in the 1st level.
                                So I flop a set of 4's on a J high flop against him about 10 mins later in the 2nd level and I raise his cbet knowing absolutly he's shoving with top pair, which he does and I get an easy double up.
                                It's rare you get chips that easily and tbh when you are generally deep, early on in a tournament you shouldn't be getting it in with top pair or overpairs.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Maloney View Post
                                  I think this is fine.
                                  It's a pretty big leak imo.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    It depends, live players are mostly terrible so i give them no credit.

                                    Folding overpairs often is not going to be a good strategy in a fast clock normal live game.

                                    Im not talking about 15k stack hour clock games in which case things might be different.
                                    Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                                    I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                                    None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      As has been mentioned, and shown to be true in this hand, we don't always get them to stack off when we do hit our set.

                                      As a rule of thumb I would usually look for a stack behind + pot : costs of seeing a flop ratio of around 20:1 to allow myself to set mine. This can vary depending on my view of the player I'm up against.

                                      Considering it's a 3bet pot in the first hand of the night (UL to win first hand don't you know ) you've got to know you're up against a monster!!
                                      Pining for Wa'erford

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Starvin Marvin View Post
                                        It depends, live players are mostly terrible so i give them no credit.

                                        Folding overpairs often is not going to be a good strategy in a fast clock normal live game.

                                        Im not talking about 15k stack hour clock games in which case things might be different.
                                        If no live player gave any other live player credit for some poker skill then we'd just all be fish and that's clearly not the case. You only need to sit down at most monthly games to see how many guys are playing for a living.
                                        The last time I went broke early in a tournament was about a year ago where I got it in with KK v a set of 7's
                                        Can't win a tournament in the first level or 2 and I find if you chip up or down by 20% or so it doesn't make a big difference to how far you go.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by gorrrr72 View Post
                                          If no live player gave any other live player credit for some poker skill then we'd just all be fish and that's clearly not the case. You only need to sit down at most monthly games to see how many guys are playing for a living.
                                          The last time I went broke early in a tournament was about a year ago where I got it in with KK v a set of 7's
                                          Can't win a tournament in the first level or 2 and I find if you chip up or down by 20% or so it doesn't make a big difference to how far you go.
                                          Well in the last 2 live tournaments ive played for a total for 23 hours play, 3 players impressed me and maybe 25+ were noticeably retarded at poker.

                                          The standard isnt improving live imo and nobody plays live for a living over here. Or at least not many.
                                          Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                                          I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                                          None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            I pretty much agree with everything Starvin Marvin has said.

                                            Fwiw, I think folding KK on that board is pretty terrible in the long run.

                                            How often is the villain going to show up with a set, as opposed to draws, smaller overpairs?

                                            And calling the 3bet with 88 is pretty meh.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by sligboi View Post
                                              As has been mentioned, and shown to be true in this hand, we don't always get them to stack off when we do hit our set.

                                              As a rule of thumb I would usually look for a stack behind + pot : costs of seeing a flop ratio of around 20:1 to allow myself to set mine. This can vary depending on my view of the player I'm up against.

                                              Considering it's a 3bet pot in the first hand of the night (UL to win first hand don't you know ) you've got to know you're up against a monster!!
                                              Yeah thats being results minded, in a live game ppl will find it really really hard to fold an over pair on an 8 high flop.
                                              Meh it may be a leak.

                                              Here's good read from 2+2

                                              ''Oh my god, I'm dropping shit like a pigeon
                                              I hope you're listening, smacking babies at their christening''

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Maloney View Post
                                                Yeah thats being results minded, in a live game ppl will find it really really hard to fold an over pair on an 8 high flop.
                                                Meh it may be a leak.

                                                Here's good read from 2+2

                                                http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...ge=0&fpart=all
                                                It's true though..what if he has ace king and completely whiffs the flop. If we are calling just to hit a set then we're letting him take away pots that are rightfully ours. This is exactly what we are doing in this situation because we are oop and the plan is to wither c/r or c/f depending on us hitting a set..

                                                Tbf I don't think I can find a fold here as, apart from the heart draw, it's a very unconnected flop with no two pr possibilities.
                                                Pining for Wa'erford

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Maloney View Post
                                                  Yeah thats being results minded, in a live game ppl will find it really really hard to fold an over pair on an 8 high flop.
                                                  Meh it may be a leak.

                                                  Here's good read from 2+2

                                                  http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...ge=0&fpart=all
                                                  That article was a good read but it for calling with suited connectors. This was someone calling 13bb preflop with a midpair in the first hand of a tournament.

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by gorrrr72 View Post
                                                    That article was a good read but it for calling with suited connectors. This was someone calling 13bb preflop with a midpair in the first hand of a tournament.
                                                    Yeah i never said it was anything to do with that hand. Thats why i put it after what i wrote.

                                                    And on that hand he called 13bb pre with 147bb behind?
                                                    ''Oh my god, I'm dropping shit like a pigeon
                                                    I hope you're listening, smacking babies at their christening''

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Maloney View Post
                                                      Yeah i never said it was anything to do with that hand. Thats why i put it after what i wrote.

                                                      And on that hand he called 13bb pre with 147bb behind?
                                                      Sorry, just reread your post.

                                                      My problem investing too much to set mine is this:

                                                      1) When you don't hit you could be check folding the best hand. When you do hit you are not gauranteed in getting the implied odds that you called for in the 1st place.

                                                      2) If you don't have the discipline to fold if you miss, and then call a cbet you are pxssing away even more chips because again you might fold the best hand on the turn having put 30% or possibly more of your stack in.

                                                      3) If the flop comes all undercards do you still checkfold? How much more of your stack do you invest to try and find out if he has an overpair?

                                                      4) You miss and checkfold. The very next hand you are dealt the same hand and the same raise comes into you. What do you do now?

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        In the hand in question there is also another player behind the guy with 88, increasing the implied odds of 88 if he calls. And most live players would call there for "value" (guy folded but we couldn't know that), so i don't think that flatting 88 is toot bad in this specific case.
                                                        Last edited by ViperEyeIRL; 19-07-10, 23:40.
                                                        "Poker isn’t about default strategies, it’s about exploiting your opponent's bad tendencies"

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by gorrrr72 View Post
                                                          Sorry, just reread your post.

                                                          My problem investing too much to set mine is this:

                                                          1) When you don't hit you could be check folding the best hand. When you do hit you are not gauranteed in getting the implied odds that you called for in the 1st place.

                                                          2) If you don't have the discipline to fold if you miss, and then call a cbet you are pxssing away even more chips because again you might fold the best hand on the turn having put 30% or possibly more of your stack in.

                                                          3) If the flop comes all undercards do you still checkfold? How much more of your stack do you invest to try and find out if he has an overpair?

                                                          4) You miss and checkfold. The very next hand you are dealt the same hand and the same raise comes into you. What do you do now?
                                                          Yeah i agree with u on alot these points man, its one area i need to work on, and it is a leak id say i call 2many 3bet's with small pp.

                                                          But i do think that if u can get correct odds and can set mine correctly it can be very profitable esp Live since ppl find it very hard to fold overpairs
                                                          ''Oh my god, I'm dropping shit like a pigeon
                                                          I hope you're listening, smacking babies at their christening''

                                                          Comment


                                                            #30
                                                            set mining oop should be left until a few hours into a session where everyone is extra deep after rebuying/stacking others etc.
                                                            Pining for Wa'erford

                                                            Comment


                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by Maloney View Post
                                                              Yeah i agree with u on alot these points man, its one area i need to work on, and it is a leak id say i call 2many 3bet's with small pp.

                                                              But i do think that if u can get correct odds and can set mine correctly it can be very profitable esp Live since ppl find it very hard to fold overpairs
                                                              I agree, in fact if the 3bet was to 425ish I would make the call. The KK guy in this hand made a raise that should have been enough to get a smaller pair either fold or call a big raise pre without getting the right odds to continue.

                                                              Comment


                                                                #32
                                                                Lads great discussion. Its probably a leak at a higher level but I was convinced I would get paid if I hit. In this case I didnt and thats why I posted it as I was genuinely surprised. I probably gave off tells that I was very strong and hero was good enough to fold without even calling the reraise. Maybe should have flatted or if I knew that he was a v good player I dont think I call preflop oop.

                                                                It was a small gamble first hand to try and get a nice stack for the rest of the tourney. I'm genuinely folding if I dont hit as I dont have him on AK. As you see from the initial replies to the posts a lot of players will get it in with KK in this spot. Good to hear people's views though.
                                                                Carl Sagan - Pale Blue Dot

                                                                Comment


                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by Starvin Marvin View Post
                                                                  Silly fold imo unless he had a soul read on you.
                                                                  He has check raised, how is this a silly fold, explain?
                                                                  You call it's all over baby!

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by NerdControl View Post
                                                                    He has check raised, how is this a silly fold, explain?
                                                                    his range for check raising includes more flush draws /overpairs / air than hands that beat us so in the long run im not sure if folding KK there is +EV

                                                                    Dont be results orientated when thinking about a hand

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      #35
                                                                      [QUOTE=Starvin Marvin;119166]Well in the last 2 live tournaments ive played for a total for 23 hours play, 3 players impressed me and maybe 25+ were noticeably retarded at poker.
                                                                      QUOTE]

                                                                      How many of the so called 25+ finished ahead of you though? I presume none, otherwise you may fall into a particular category yourself. It's fascinating that you have such perspective on the game given the sheer lack of creedence to the amount of rubbish that you have posted here.
                                                                      You call it's all over baby!

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                                                        his range for check raising includes more flush draws /overpairs / air than hands that beat us so in the long run im not sure if folding KK there is +EV

                                                                        Dont be results orientated when thinking about a hand
                                                                        I agree with your range opinion but preflop call and check raising with air is not the hand I could ever put him on.
                                                                        You call it's all over baby!

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          #37
                                                                          You all looneys folding the 88 there. Im not too happy about being oop but Im still peeling and not only to hit a set.
                                                                          Also I dont get it-it seems like the dude decided the range of hands he was up against was basically hands that had him in bad shape and made a reasonable fold.I wouldnt fold there but I think its ludicrious to jump in blind and say lolbadfold etc Like there are defo people I would in theory fold KK to a cr on a board like this. I guess its what makes so many theory threads esp live not that usefull.

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by jbravado View Post
                                                                            You all looneys folding the 88 there. Im not too happy about being oop but Im still peeling and not only to hit a set.
                                                                            4 different types of flop, what do you do on each taking into consideration you are oop?

                                                                            1. K Q 10 rainbow

                                                                            2. 5 6 7 of spades (you have two red 8s)

                                                                            3. 2 6 10 rainbow

                                                                            4. A K 8 rainbow

                                                                            Just wondering..
                                                                            Pining for Wa'erford

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              #39
                                                                              Originally posted by sligboi View Post
                                                                              4 different types of flop, what do you do on each taking into consideration you are oop?

                                                                              1. K Q 10 rainbow

                                                                              2. 5 6 7 of spades (you have two red 8s)

                                                                              3. 2 6 10 rainbow

                                                                              4. A K 8 rainbow

                                                                              Just wondering..
                                                                              im actually happy enough to peel early in the tournament with 88 as in the overall sense of tournament play its not that big a dent in your stack and the benefits of hitting and stacking villain far out weigh the negatives of missing. anyway to answer your question

                                                                              1. c/f
                                                                              2. maybe call 1 barrel
                                                                              3. maybe call 1 barrel
                                                                              4. c/r for sure calling a shove

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                #40
                                                                                Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                                                                im actually happy enough to peel early in the tournament with 88 as in the overall sense of tournament play its not that big a dent in your stack and the benefits of hitting and stacking villain far out weigh the negatives of missing. anyway to answer your question

                                                                                1. c/f
                                                                                2. maybe call 1 barrel
                                                                                3. maybe call 1 barrel
                                                                                4. c/r for sure calling a shove
                                                                                Flop 1 and 4 happen the least and are the easiest decisions.
                                                                                Flop 2 puts you in a world of hurt if you miss the turn
                                                                                Flop 3 puts you in a world of hurt if the turn is a blank

                                                                                I try and give myself easy decisions so I guess I'm a looney

                                                                                More often than not you will have 1 overcard and your decisions are harder because the pot is already big so any c-bets are generally bigger.

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by gorrrr72 View Post
                                                                                  Flop 1 and 4 happen the least and are the easiest decisions.
                                                                                  Flop 2 puts you in a world of hurt if you miss the turn
                                                                                  Flop 3 puts you in a world of hurt if the turn is a blank

                                                                                  I try and give myself easy decisions so I guess I'm a looney

                                                                                  More often than not you will have 1 overcard and your decisions are harder because the pot is already big so any c-bets are generally bigger.
                                                                                  nah your definitely not a looney - I owe TommyGunne for this piece of advice but teh pokers is about making the most EV play not about giving yourself easy decisions the whole time

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Nah I was being a little flippant with the looney remark. Im sure lots of great players would fold here pre-it might even be the best line I dont know. I know I wouldnt though.
                                                                                    Re the different flops would depend of loads of stuff-bet size timing loltells etc-I know Id fold the bejsus out of flop one though! The second and the third are flops that prob look way better for our hand than his and we have no way of no how the action will go. Four Id prop lead call get it in with cr on turn please pokergod. BUT its all so random and vague has no real merit-like I get we have to have a plan for hands but I dont think this stretches to every single permuatation in the deck.

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      I was just intrigued by you saying you were calling and not just to hit a set and wanted to see your opinions/actions on different flop textures, etc.
                                                                                      Pining for Wa'erford

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Yeah what I was getting at was our hand is relatively strong and we will have to win some pots when we dont flop a set(some flops will be sweet for our range more than his etc etc)just as I dont plan on stacking off on every lowball board.
                                                                                        Like If my plan was call to flop a set then insta muck when I didnt I guess Id fold pre aswell.

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Originally posted by NerdControl View Post
                                                                                          He has check raised, how is this a silly fold, explain?
                                                                                          Originally posted by NerdControl View Post
                                                                                          Originally posted by Starvin Marvin View Post
                                                                                          Well in the last 2 live tournaments ive played for a total for 23 hours play, 3 players impressed me and maybe 25+ were noticeably retarded at poker.
                                                                                          How many of the so called 25+ finished ahead of you though? I presume none, otherwise you may fall into a particular category yourself. It's fascinating that you have such perspective on the game given the sheer lack of creedence to the amount of rubbish that you have posted here.
                                                                                          lol
                                                                                          Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                                                                                          I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                                                                                          None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            Originally posted by jbravado View Post
                                                                                            Nah I was being a little flippant with the looney remark. Im sure lots of great players would fold here pre-it might even be the best line I dont know. I know I wouldnt though.
                                                                                            Re the different flops would depend of loads of stuff-bet size timing loltells etc-I know Id fold the bejsus out of flop one though! The second and the third are flops that prob look way better for our hand than his and we have no way of no how the action will go. Four Id prop lead call get it in with cr on turn please pokergod. BUT its all so random and vague has no real merit-like I get we have to have a plan for hands but I dont think this stretches to every single permuatation in the deck.
                                                                                            Tbh I probably err on the conservative side too much at times but it works for me given my limited skill. I can hold my own against normal standard players but against top guys I get completly pawned most of the time. (I have a higher risk novice style plan for them though) Good thing there are few top players out there.
                                                                                            I'm always working on my game and trying new things though. When to 3 bet shove light, when to min raise etc and I've just discovered how to use the magic of the thin value bet over the last few months.

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              Originally posted by ViperEyeIRL View Post
                                                                                              In the hand in question there is also another player behind the guy with 88, increasing the implied odds of 88 if he calls. And most live players would call there for "value" (guy folded but we couldn't know that), so i don't think that flatting 88 is toot bad in this specific case.
                                                                                              This, flatting 88 here pre is completely standard and expecially so with the player to act behind, your implied odds are about 16/1 minimum without the next guy calling, dont see how anyone can argue otherwise.

                                                                                              Also the guys fold with KK is completely fine here, the checkraise is weighted way more to sets and AA than anything else. The combos of nut flush draws are pretty slim for one and he shouldnt be checkraising pocket pairs less than ours here often if ever. Calling here on the flop with KK and stacking off on blank turns is going to be terrible.
                                                                                              "Don't overcomplicate a straight forward game with mathematical bullshit and dicussing different lines with your geeky friends" Chris Olaafson

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                I think you are giving people way too much credit for being decent Line Us, of course he shouldnt be check raising smaller pocket pairs than ours here but a lot of live players still do. He can also have any heart draw doesnt have to be the nfd, he can easily have called QhJh, 9hTh or similar here which again obv sucks but people still do it.

                                                                                                This is a 40 quid live game where the standard is going to be horrible.
                                                                                                Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                                                                                                I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                                                                                                None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  Originally posted by Starvin Marvin View Post
                                                                                                  I think you are giving people way too much credit for being decent Line Us, of course he shouldnt be check raising smaller pocket pairs than ours here but a lot of live players still do. He can also have any heart draw doesnt have to be the nfd, he can easily have called QhJh, 9hTh or similar here which again obv sucks but people still do it.

                                                                                                  This is a 40 quid live game where the standard is going to be horrible.
                                                                                                  Well in the original post villian is described as " a regular there who is a solid fairly ABC player." , if he was described as a typical live donk then its obviously fine to stack off. I just think against an ABC player we are pretty much crushed or at best flipping on the flop in this spot. Its so early in the tournament too that I would have no problem folding here, its never a big mistake, calling and getting it in on blank turns however I'd say is a huge mistake.
                                                                                                  Last edited by Line Us; 20-07-10, 16:05.
                                                                                                  "Don't overcomplicate a straight forward game with mathematical bullshit and dicussing different lines with your geeky friends" Chris Olaafson

                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    Yeah im probably more basing this on my own experience of fast clock live tournaments where i think folding KK on a flop like this would be criminal against most average live players.
                                                                                                    Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                                                                                                    I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                                                                                                    None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                      #51
                                                                                                      If you are folding KK should you always show and hope the villain reciprocates?
                                                                                                      In a bigger buyin tourney I should never show my top set, correct?
                                                                                                      Carl Sagan - Pale Blue Dot

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                                                                                                        #52
                                                                                                        Originally posted by Fiend View Post
                                                                                                        If you are folding KK should you always show and hope the villain reciprocates?
                                                                                                        I would say you should never show against aggressive players as they will simply eat you alive. Particularly if it is apparent that you are hoping the other guy will reciprocate as you will come across as such a Greenhorn

                                                                                                        Having said that I am a big believer in creating some kind of image against average or poor players. I think most players think about poker in very simple terms, and their image of you is thus very manipulable.

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