Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.

[V for Vendetta]

Playing absolute extremes here, but is there no way of protecting the father-in-law, or he needs to write off everything? Let's say, for example, MrsDP was to pass away and DP tells the father-in-law to gtfo as he needs a harem to replace the one-and-only MrsDP - whats to protect the father-in-law in that case?

Obviously this isn't going to happen, but we do try and legally protect ourselves from all types of highly unlikely situations.

If he has a life interest in the new property then they aren't first time buyers. However, that's the only way of protecting his interests I'd have thought. Or else some really complex trust type arrangement but I doubt the monies are there to justify that level of effort...

[jack90210]

ah that reminds me, I had a question.

I'm in the process of getting our shit together to buy a house.
As Mrs DP's dad is on his own, we were planning on selling that house and using the money + whatever we borrow to get somewhere where we can all live together. Aside from the culture shock of have a 70odd yr old housemate, I'm all for this as he's pretty isolated at the moment.
I'm not sure how to go about it in such a way that wont cost us all a bomb in tax and mess up first time buyers stuff as well.

Without looking too much into it assuming your the house been sold is his principal private residence for his whole life he should be exempt for capital gains tax on its sale.

The gift will be taxable depending on the amount and any prior benefits. Your wife will be entitled to receive €310,000 from her father over her life, while you can receive €16,250 from him tax free. Also €3k per year small gifts exemption. So if the transfer was all in one go €313k + €19,250.

Will depend on how you wanted to structure the transaction. Could be scope for getting enough for deposit and hoping the thresholds go up for the rest.

Could be scope for a more complicated agreement with him retaining a limited interest etc. also.

Would need to look into if you providing him rent free accommodation would be viewed as a gift also. I believe in practice this probably be ignored.

Worth getting some formal advice.

[Raoul Duke III]

DP - fast forward 6/7 years. You're pushing 40 and have 2 or 3 kids.

Do you really want three generations under that roof you're buying? Because it's going to get crowded....

[Kayroo]

Playing absolute extremes here, but is there no way of protecting the father-in-law, or he needs to write off everything? Let's say, for example, MrsDP was to pass away and DP tells the father-in-law to gtfo as he needs a harem to replace the one-and-only MrsDP - whats to protect the father-in-law in that case?

Obviously this isn't going to happen, but we do try and legally protect ourselves from all types of highly unlikely situations.

They could give him a life interest in the property and register it as a burden on the folio maybe. When I say sign away his interest I mean his monetary interest. Although a life interest is technically a burden for moneys worth so the Bank might not be happy with that either.

The problem is the Help-To-Buy scheme which only applies when its one or two people purchasing for the first time. If the father in law is in on the purchase then that's off the table. Of course if he gifts the money to MrsDP and it exceeds the lifetime gifts threshold then the tax might be more than the HTB scheme but that seems unlikely.

They might try giving him an irrevocable, non-transferable lease over one room in the house although that won't help him if Mr and Mrs DP ever try and sell the house as the lease would be completely void as against anyone who bought the house.

Basically, this would all be really simple if DP didn't want to avail of the Help to Buy Scheme. But if he does, then it gets tricky sorting out protections for the father in law beyond trusting his daughter and son-in-law.

[Kayroo]

Worth getting some formal advice.

Wanted to say this just because it's so rare - Jack is absolutely correct and I agree with him 100%.

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[DeadParrot]

Your FIL sells up and gifts his daughter an amount of money (which will count against her inheritance limits). She then combines this with your family savings and gets mortgage approval with you and you buy somewhere. FIL has no claim on the new house but does come and live with you both.

The tricky thing is to make sure that your FIL is happy and mentally capable to decide to do this (that is to have no formal entitlement to live in the new house etc) and that no other siblings are in the mix to get upset about an inheritance "loss" and get it all done legally in advance of making any house bids etc.

The other challenge is your FIL will have to come live with you before ye buy the new house and that could be a period of 6-12 months before you actually buy a place. You may need to rent a bigger place in the interim in the interests of domestic harmony.

Cheers for the advice all.
Yeah no other siblings and MIL passed away a few years back.
Yeah 6-12 month thing is a stumbling block alright. I've a fairly sizable 3 bed apartment rented so maybe no a huge issue. My missus seems to be of the opinion we decide to move, and presto 2 weeks later we have a house

[Kayroo]

Also - VforV hits on a really important point. If MrsDP has any siblings then you're going to need the entire family to agree to any arrangement like the one proposed and preferably in writing or you could spend a long time arguing about this when the father-in-law has passed on.

[Denny Crane]

Maybe CNBC thought: hey a big sanctions news event just happened that might affect companies. We're a stockmarket news organisation so we should report on that. How about we do up a chart of how the market reacted to this news?

They're a news organisation. Is it not telling that only they use such charts? No one with a serious interest ever looks at something like that? Are you going to keep doubling down on this? Are they trying to give an accurate picture or are they trying to make it look and sound as bad as possible?

[DeadParrot]

DP - fast forward 6/7 years. You're pushing 40 and have 2 or 3 kids.

Do you really want three generations under that roof you're buying? Because it's going to get crowded....

I'm pleased that you think I'll be pushing 40 in 6 or 7 years

Ah look, the fella is on his own, there are no other siblings and he's visibly wilting on his own. I'd have to be some fucking cunt to be against this. It was my idea, the hardest part was convincing him.

[V for Vendetta]

Without looking too much into it assuming your the house been sold is his principal private residence for his whole life he should be exempt for capital gains tax on its sale.

The gift will be taxable depending on the amount and any prior benefits. Your wife will be entitled to receive €310,000 from her father over her life, while you can receive €16,250 from him tax free. Also €3k per year small gifts exemption. So if the transfer was all in one go €313k + €19,250.

Will depend on how you wanted to structure the transaction. Could be scope for getting enough for deposit and hoping the thresholds go up for the rest.

Could be scope for a more complicated agreement with him retaining a limited interest etc. also.

Would need to look into if you providing him rent free accommodation would be viewed as a gift also. I believe in practice this probably be ignored.

Worth getting some formal advice.

There's a really nice scheme where you can gift money to parents/financial dependents over age 65 so I can't see allowing someone to live rent free in their 70s with you ever being an issue except in some sort of multi millionaire outlier type of scenario.

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[DeadParrot]

Basically, this would all be really simple if DP didn't want to avail of the Help to Buy Scheme. But if he does, then it gets tricky sorting out protections for the father in law beyond trusting his daughter and son-in-law.

he amount that you can claim is the lesser of:

€20,000
5% of the purchase price of a new home. For self-builds this is 5% of the completion value of the property
the amount of Income Tax and Deposit Interest Retention Tax (DIRT) you have paid in the four years before your purchase or self-build.

max of 20k mightn't be worth the hassle maybe..

[Denny Crane]

right. Here's Bloomberg[/URL] using the exact same style of chart, albeit updated as its a more recent chart so accounts for overnight recovery. Thats Bloomberg the worlds main provider of professional financial news. Everyone uses charts like this.

find me a trader that using that as their main chart or even thinks that's useful

[Dice75]

I'd watch your back DP, they seem like a scheming lot.

[jack90210]

max of 20k mightn't be worth the hassle maybe..

Property must be a new build and less than €500k also. Must have at least a 70% mortgage too.

[DeadParrot]

Property must be a new build and less than €500k also. Must have at least a 70% mortgage too.

considering the area we want to live in, I may as well forget about that so.
No new builds there

[V for Vendetta]

Cheers for the advice all.
Yeah no other siblings and MIL passed away a few years back.
Yeah 6-12 month thing is a stumbling block alright. I've a fairly sizable 3 bed apartment rented so maybe no a huge issue. My missus seems to be of the opinion we decide to move, and presto 2 weeks later we have a house

I'm pleased that you think I'll be pushing 40 in 6 or 7 years

Ah look, the fella is on his own, there are no other siblings and he's visibly wilting on his own. I'd have to be some fucking cunt to be against this. It was my idea, the hardest part was convincing him.

We bought our house 12 months ago. Never formally intending for any grandparents to live with us. My Mam hurt her back and stayed with us for 3 weeks recently and it was really nice. We've had others stay with us off and on and we hope to be able to have plenty more family and friends stay with us as the need arises. This was something we couldn't really do before.

Of course there are challenges but it's also a chance to pay a bit back and it's nice to be able to do it before it's too late. It's also an example I hope sticks with my daughter when my own time comes! I still remember my grandmother living with us for 6 months before she got too unwell and had to go to a nursing home and died. It's a precious treasured memory tbh.

[Raoul Duke III]

I'm pleased that you think I'll be pushing 40 in 6 or 7 years

Ah look, the fella is on his own, there are no other siblings and he's visibly wilting on his own. I'd have to be some fucking cunt to be against this. It was my idea, the hardest part was convincing him.

I was being diplomatic on the 40 thing.

Sure, fair play to you. I wouldn't do it myself!

[V for Vendetta]

Property must be a new build and less than €500k also. Must have at least a 70% mortgage too.

Good point Jack! You'd think I'd have remembered that considering it was the reason I didn't take advantage myself. I honestly think you get the FTB 20k back in savings on a second hand purchase anyway.

All the extras like installed floors, kitchen, mature garden etc etc and the smaller pool of potential buyers overrides the 5% saving upto 20k imo

People rarely get back more than 50% of what they spend making a house into a home I'd say.

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[NuckChorris]

Has anyone watched Sense8? I just saw it mentioned on Twitter and see that the writers/directors of the Matrix are involved along with the creator of Babylon 5. Seems to have good reviews also...

Agree with Richie's review. Grand but not great. Watched 5 or 6 episodes, drifted off and came back watching through to a fair bit of season 2. Fact I can't remember where I'm at and am not in a rush to catch up again says it all. Has the odd amazing scene though as you'd expect with the producers.

ah that reminds me, I had a question.

I'm in the process of getting our shit together to buy a house.
As Mrs DP's dad is on his own, we were planning on selling that house and using the money + whatever we borrow to get somewhere where we can all live together. Aside from the culture shock of have a 70odd yr old housemate, I'm all for this as he's pretty isolated at the moment.
I'm not sure how to go about it in such a way that wont cost us all a bomb in tax and mess up first time buyers stuff as well.

Lads have given all the financial advice that I thought of - definitely worth getting a tax advisor on board. I thought of one other thing that you may not have and won't like to think about. If your FIL needs Nursing Home care in the future (and a big % do) the Fair Deal scheme is the only way to go and takes up to 21.5% of your FIL's assets (house always the biggest part of this). If your FIL and MrsDP are both happy with it, him passing on as much of his assets as possible now is a good thing. They'll check for assets that he's sold in the last 5 years so it would be long-term planning by you.

[jack90210]

Good point Jack! You'd think I'd have remembered that considering it was the reason I didn't take advantage myself. I honestly think you get the FTB 20k back in savings on a second hand purchase anyway.

All the extras like installed floors, kitchen, mature garden etc etc and the smaller pool of potential buyers overrides the 5% saving upto 20k imo

People rarely get back more than 50% of what they spend making a house into a home I'd say.

Yeah great points and also the 5 year clawback on the help to buy if property ceases to be your main residence in 5 years. Reduces your flexibility.

[Denny Crane]

Ah this is part of your typical meandering argument style. I post a general chart about the market reaction to a news event and you through a series of convoluted arguments end up arguing that its not valid as a professional trader would not use that chart to trade. Who the fck said 'hey traders you should trade on this'. Its a news story not professional trading advice. And markets falling 2% or so whenever a president speaks is definitely a news story. Hence why every financial news organisation, both popular and professional, finds it noteworthy.

Ah here Hitch you just keep doubling down on this.

You got excited because it confirmed your belief that Trump is setting fire to US markets. It's 1%, negligible, and mostly recovered before markets opened. The chart is a joke, it's pure click-bait, it's impossible to discern anything useful from it, no one trying to get an accurate view is looking at anything like that. This is what people who aren't relying on clicks post on twitter

We've both made our predictions about how successful the stable genius is going to be in this trade war, no need in wasting energy in the initial ebbs and flows, just wait for it to play out.

[Keane]

Good point Jack! You'd think I'd have remembered that considering it was the reason I didn't take advantage myself. I honestly think you get the FTB 20k back in savings on a second hand purchase anyway.

All the extras like installed floors, kitchen, mature garden etc etc and the smaller pool of potential buyers overrides the 5% saving upto 20k imo

People rarely get back more than 50% of what they spend making a house into a home I'd say.

I think it was fairly well documented that the average price of new builds increased by 20% overnight when this scheme was rolled out?

[Kayroo]

We've both made our predictions about how successful the stable genius is going to be in this trade war, no need in wasting energy in the initial ebbs and flows, just wait for it to play out.

Just as a matter of interest - and I'm really not taking sides here as I'm not qualified to discuss financial data like this - what do you think a win for Trump in the trade war looks like?

Not just a superficial win as Hitch alluded to earlier - a genuinely substantive win.

Conversely I'd love to know what Hitch and you think a loss looks like for Trump.

[Guest]

I think it was fairly well documented that the average price of new builds increased by 20% overnight when this scheme was rolled out?

I made a similar point to someone looking to avail of HTB recently. I imagine if you did a comparison of cost per sqft of new builds vs 2nd hand homes with controls for variables making certain houses more attractive such as BER etc that new houses surely have approx 20% premium over 2nd hand homes.

[bp_me]

I made a similar point to someone looking to avail of HTB recently. I imagine if you did a comparison of cost per sqft of new builds vs 2nd hand homes with controls for variables making certain houses more attractive such as BER etc that new houses surely have approx 20% premium over 2nd hand homes.

You might be right... but anecdotally you will need to spend a lot of that 20% to bring the s/h house up to the standard of the new house you could have bought.

We looked around a lot before buying new and everything was either a) wrecked b) out of touch with the market or c) both! And this is in Waterford.

[Guest]

You might be right... but anecdotally you will need to spend a lot of that 20% to bring the s/h house up to the standard of the new house you could have bought.

We looked around a lot before buying new and everything was either a) wrecked b) out of touch with the market or c) both! And this is in Waterford.

That's where I have been looking at myself funny enough, you're right there hasn't been much up there recently.

I agree and I'm not necessarily back-tracking but I do think that premium is certainly more evident in some areas.
It's relative though.

As an example GF's bro bought a house recently in Waterford, house lists at 80kish and sells for 120k.
He maximises the limit of the extension for 400 sqft taking total cost to 160k, house up to 1000sqft five mins drive from motorway.
GF and I viewing some new builds out near Tramore similar size, next phase will be 210-220k.
50-60k isn't a lot of money per se but 25%+ in effective cost is big.

I'm not saying that's the case every time and there is certainly some intangible benefits of a new house but the premium is certainly there.

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[Ed]

Holloway out of UFC main event tomorrow, some week they're having

[bp_me]

As an example GF's bro bought a house recently in Waterford, house lists at 80kish and sells for 120k.
He maximises the limit of the extension for 400 sqft taking total cost to 160k, house up to 1000sqft five mins drive from motorway.
GF and I viewing some new builds out near Tramore similar size, next phase will be 210-220k.
50-60k isn't a lot of money per se but 25%+ in effective cost is big.

I'm not saying that's the case every time and there is certainly some intangible benefits of a new house but the premium is certainly there.

Yup...

but remember that new build will be A2 rated BER. The cost to do that to an older house would be insane (probably another 20k-40k just pulling numbers out of my backside... might be a lot more).

Im guessing for 80k that he bought somewhere around the top of the city... most of those houses are heading on (or well past) 100 years old which presents all sorts of fun and unique challenges. It's also probably mid-terrace vs a semi-d that you are looking at in tramore. Also for some reason tramore typically asks about a 5-10% premium on city prices.

Then there's the stuff that's hard to quantify but actually important. Things like an ensuite or consideration given to where a wardrobe will go. These make a huge difference to the practicality of a house but it's stuff you don't actually notice is missing until you spend a while living without it.

Also new build prices are distorted by first time buyers help to buy scheme which further throws the numbers out.

[Guest]

Also new build prices are distorted by first time buyers help to buy scheme which further throws the numbers out.

That's what I was saying, the premium is caused primarily due to the incentives.
I think the premium even controlling for the benefits such as BER as well as those more intangibles is close to 20%.
Either way we'd be splitting hairs as value with houses is so perceptive.

My point to that person I was chatting to was in the situation whereby if you buy a new house while primarily competing with FTB using HTB scheme that you're immediately technically entering into negative equity.
If you decided to immediately sell the house for example you lose a huge portion of potential buyers and although it's obviously purely hypothetical you would probably fail to recoup the full purchase price.
That would in essence truly determine the incentives premium

[Hectorjelly]

The way you win a trade was is by not taking part: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/03/0...rade-wars.html

[DeadParrot]

That photo of the two lads from Malone rugby

I mean I dont even know what it's meant to be saying.
Whats the point of the trophy?

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[Hooch]

Holloway out of UFC main event tomorrow, some week they're having

Medically unfit, really has turned into a joke week.

Hope Khabib calls out and trolls conor big time now.

Well at least we still have Rose Vs Joanna thats a fight ive been looking forward to with a long time.

[jack90210]

Khabib fighting Pettis if he agrees. Pettis has 2 hours to lose 0.2 of a pound.

[Guest]

That photo of the two lads from Malone rugby

Really?

Couple of gombeen cunts!

[ArmaniJeans]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJrOwyF2b9Y

[Ed]

Medically unfit, really has turned into a joke week.

Hope Khabib calls out and trolls conor big time now.

Well at least we still have Rose Vs Joanna thats a fight ive been looking forward to with a long time.

If that Pettis fight happens it'll be painful watching but there's definitely some good fights left, the Felder Iaquinta one will be interesting

[Hooch]

If that Pettis fight happens it'll be painful watching but there's definitely some good fights left, the Felder Iaquinta one will be interesting

I agree it will be painful but obviously Pettis sees this as his big opportunity at the big time plus he needs to fight to get paid.

Im personally looking forward to the 3 women fights look great on paper and Iaguinta Vs Felder should be a cracker, but all the drama with the main event has turned it into a circus. Think ill be cheering on Felder hes kinda won me over with his commentating skills.
Edit: not sure Felder fights Iaguinta now

[Hooch]

Khabib fighting Pettis if he agrees. Pettis has 2 hours to lose 0.2 of a pound.

Just seen Pettis looked for more money they countered with less so he has now pulled out. Now Felder wants to fight.
Circus.

[jack90210]

Just seen Pettis looked for more money they countered with less so he has now pulled out. Now Felder wants to fight.
Circus.

Hearing now Felder would have taken it but NYSAC saying his ranking is too low, which seems bizarre.

[Hooch]

Hearing now Felder would have taken it but NYSAC saying his ranking is too low, which seems bizarre.

Not bizarre at all, they see it as a saftey concern that the skill gap is to big and that he will get seriously hurt.

[jack90210]

Not bizarre at all, they see it as a saftey concern that the skill gap is to big and that he will get seriously hurt.

He has 10 UFC fights under his belt including 7 wins. You do know the rankings have no meaning? "Rankings were generated by a voting panel made up of media members. The media members were asked to vote for who they feel are the top fighters in the UFC by weight-class and pound-for-pound."

[Ed]

He has 10 UFC fights under his belt including 7 wins. You do know the rankings have no meaning? "Rankings were generated by a voting panel made up of media members. The media members were asked to vote for who they feel are the top fighters in the UFC by weight-class and pound-for-pound."

Would be shocked if the NYSAC knew any of that

[Guest]

Would be shocked if the NYSAC knew any of that

Of course they would, it's stated on the rankings page of the UFC

Still, if that's how the UFC generate their rankings, that's all the info NYSAC is being given to work with

[Hooch]

He has 10 UFC fights under his belt including 7 wins. You do know the rankings have no meaning? "Rankings were generated by a voting panel made up of media members. The media members were asked to vote for who they feel are the top fighters in the UFC by weight-class and pound-for-pound."

Felders top ranked opponent that he beat was Oliverira at #25.
His 3 losses are more significant.
He lost to Pearson#36 Trinaldo#15 and Barboza#4
Pearson then lost to Trinaldo who then went and got beat by Vick#12, won against Miller #17 and lost to lee#7.
Barbozas last two losses are against Ferguson#1 and Khabib#2.

So if the NYSAC look into these things themselves, im sure they see a big skill difference/gap hence the decision. Just my 2 cent.

[shrapnel]

I see a pattern emerging...

Completely forgot about the New Model Army tickets for this day week. Do you know of anyone that would use them, FOC. I would need to be posting them by Monday. If not i will stick them on a fan forum for free.

i'll ask around this morning and will let you know by lunchtime!!

Forgot to get back to you on this earlier, but unfortunately no takers,but thanks for the offer, looks like a great concert/experience in a great hall

[oleras]

Forgot to get back to you on this earlier, but unfortunately no takers,but thanks for the offer, looks like a great concert/experience in a great hall

Depending on how drunk i get this evening....may price hotel and flights and just call in sick...

[Ed]

Khabib vs Iaquinta tomorrow, best they could have done in a bad situation

[bp_me]

That's what I was saying, the premium is caused primarily due to the incentives.
I think the premium even controlling for the benefits such as BER as well as those more intangibles is close to 20%.
Either way we'd be splitting hairs as value with houses is so perceptive.

My point to that person I was chatting to was in the situation whereby if you buy a new house while primarily competing with FTB using HTB scheme that you're immediately technically entering into negative equity.
If you decided to immediately sell the house for example you lose a huge portion of potential buyers and although it's obviously purely hypothetical you would probably fail to recoup the full purchase price.
That would in essence truly determine the incentives premium

I suspect the constrained supply has more to do with house prices than the FTB grant...that was just fuel on the fire.

Also I note that while there is planning granted for 60 more houses immediately behind me for about 6 months now there isn't a hint of ground works which means it's at least 12 months before any more houses are handed over here after the current phase finishes.

[jack90210]

Felders top ranked opponent that he beat was Oliverira at #25.
His 3 losses are more significant.
He lost to Pearson#36 Trinaldo#15 and Barboza#4
Pearson then lost to Trinaldo who then went and got beat by Vick#12, won against Miller #17 and lost to lee#7.
Barbozas last two losses are against Ferguson#1 and Khabib#2.

So if the NYSAC look into these things themselves, im sure they see a big skill difference/gap hence the decision. Just my 2 cent.

Your making all that assumption on the basis that the rankings are relevant which they aren't. Also where are you even getting those rankings from as far as I am aware the UFC rankings only extend to 15. Unofficial rankings may extend further.

That been said Felder was unranked in UFC rankings and Al laquinta who now got the fight is ranked 11. In MMA Junkie rankings they have Al Laquinta 13 and Felder 15.

Al laquinta has got the fight over Felder who everyone would have preferred as he hit championship weight. Felder is now left without a fight totally because of this bizarre decision.

NYSAC are noobs when it comes to MMA and it shows, would have been allowed in Nevada or California without even been questioned.

Demetrious Johnson the widely regarded pound for pound best in UFC faced unranked 2-5 in UFC Tim Elliot in December 2016 in Vegas. Elliot went full 25 mins.

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[Kayroo]

Have a health question.

Someone my mum knows went to the doctor with pains in chest. Its an ongoing on-again off-again thing. Doc said it's anxiety and go and see a therapist. He's convinced it's an actual heart thing. What does he do in that situation. There's no emergency here he thinks, so A&E wouldn't be appropriate. Can you just go somewhere and be hooked up to an ECG to verify you're fine without a doctor referral? Presumably it would be somewhere private if so. Anyone any ideas?

Obviously taking medical advice here would be LOLbad - almost as bad as taking legal advice or, god help us, financial - but AFAIK if you walk into A&E and say you have chest pains they admit you close to 100% of the time.

[Ed]

There's no rules against having more than one doctor, could just go get a 2nd opinion?

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