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Old 26-10-16, 23:05   #1
Ridonkulous
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Live 80 freezout hand

I'm in mid position with about 40-45k, starting stack is 20k and most players have around this amount. I'm in mid position with 97 off. 2 limpers in front for 200 each, I limp, 2 limpers behind. Button was active early but has now slowed down (yet to see a showdown) raises to 800, he has about 18k starting the hand. BB and limper in front of me call. I call. Everyone else folds. Flop is Qh9c4h. Action to me is check, check, I check, button bets 1300. other players fold and I call. Thoughts so far? Turn card is a 5 of spades. I check, button bets out 2700, I call. River is a 5 of diamonds. I check, button bets 4100. What's my move? Call or fold? Thoughts on how I've played the hand so far.
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Old 26-10-16, 23:31   #2
brady23
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Originally Posted by Ridonkulous View Post
I'm in mid position with about 40-45k, starting stack is 20k and most players have around this amount. I'm in mid position with 97 off. 2 limpers in front for 200 each, I limp, 2 limpers behind. Button was active early but has now slowed down (yet to see a showdown) raises to 800, he has about 18k starting the hand. BB and limper in front of me call. I call. Everyone else folds. Flop is Qh9c4h. Action to me is check, check, I check, button bets 1300. other players fold and I call. Thoughts so far? Turn card is a 5 of spades. I check, button bets out 2700, I call. River is a 5 of diamonds. I check, button bets 4100. What's my move? Call or fold? Thoughts on how I've played the hand so far.
It's a definite fold pre anyway. Youre taking a super passive line with a poor hand. As played, I probably check call the flop and check fold the turn but the mistake was definitely pre flop
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Old 27-10-16, 00:32   #3
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I don't like any street so far, I don't understand why you would call preflop, the flop or the turn. You have a very poor hand that didn't really improve that much.
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Old 27-10-16, 05:23   #4
Dice75
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Limping here is very poor.

If you have decided the two limpers are essentially dead money and are confident in your post flop play in position against either or both then raise if you are entering the hand.

As played every street is poor.

What was your plan on the turn for the river. Do you think youre ahead and hoping for cheap showdown?

The old "Fold pre" answer is pretty apt here though.
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Old 27-10-16, 06:14   #5
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As others said, fold pre, fold pre to the raise, fold the flop, fold the turn and fold the river. Just because the aggressor turns over AK or J10 sometimes, doesn't mean that when we win, we've played the hand well. The river 5 isn't a very good card for him to continue the bluff on, and it's a great card for extracting value with the upper part of his range.
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Old 27-10-16, 08:19   #6
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Your limp call range includes a lot of queens. His triple barrel is very strong and unless you have a live read the turn is a definite fold.
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Old 27-10-16, 11:24   #7
Ridonkulous
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Thanks for the feedback guys. I just wanted to double check I wasn't going mental. I was the button in this scenario. Needless to say he called my river bet and took down the pot.
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Old 27-10-16, 11:44   #8
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Originally Posted by Ridonkulous View Post
Thanks for the feedback guys. I just wanted to double check I wasn't going mental. I was the button in this scenario. Needless to say he called my river bet and took down the pot.
If we're looking at it from your POV, then pre flop is way too small. There's 5 limpers for 200 so we should be making it 1200/1300 especially if guys are prone to limp calling. If the first guy or 2 calls, you're going 5/6 ways to the flop.

On the flop, you bet 1300 into 3300 on such a draw heavy board. Depending on our holding, i prefer to check back or fire bigger. Turn is not too bad but on the river, it's 4100 into 11300. You're giving him a good price on calling especially with a far bigger stack. We've only about 14k back on the river is the problem because i'd like to fire a polarising bet like 9.5k or so.
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Old 27-10-16, 12:57   #9
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I think your problem here is you're trying to play poker against someone who's trying to catch cards. Either charge them too much to chase or surrender when you meet resistance.

What Tony said above re bet sizing is good. If your bet sizing is bigger you have more control. These players don't want to bust early, so will fold marginals when it's costing too much (at least a lot of the time in my experience) but it's high risk. They can get stubborn too.

Having said all that, trying to get them to fold is probably -ev most of the time, so I would take a line like that or just play passively until I got there against this player type and value bet.
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Old 27-10-16, 13:44   #10
Ridonkulous
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Originally Posted by Flushdraw View Post
If we're looking at it from your POV, then pre flop is way too small. There's 5 limpers for 200 so we should be making it 1200/1300 especially if guys are prone to limp calling. If the first guy or 2 calls, you're going 5/6 ways to the flop.

On the flop, you bet 1300 into 3300 on such a draw heavy board. Depending on our holding, i prefer to check back or fire bigger. Turn is not too bad but on the river, it's 4100 into 11300. You're giving him a good price on calling especially with a far bigger stack. We've only about 14k back on the river is the problem because i'd like to fire a polarising bet like 9.5k or so.
He was close to folding the turn (I think) so I decided to seriously value bet the river with the expectation that any decent bet would lead to a fold but I think you may be right. I can't see him calling the river if I bet 8k plus. River card wasn't a bad one for his hand (all draws missed) and with the value presented he called pretty quickly on the river. What I'm not sure of is if he made his mind up on the turn to call the river on any blank but I do think this was the case. Hard to know I guess. I'm not sure I play a big made hand here any differently.
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Old 27-10-16, 19:20   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridonkulous View Post
I'm in mid position with 97 off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridonkulous View Post
I was the button in this scenario. Needless to say he called my river bet and took down the pot.
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Originally Posted by Ridonkulous View Post
He was close to folding the turn (I think) so I decided to seriously value bet the river .
some of this confused me, when you say you value bet the river did you bet a hand you thought was ahead or were you bluffing thinking he was folding?

making it about 1300 preflop
flop bet is too small on this board v 3 players
on the river i'm not sure your getting much to fold here and 5 is a good card for him to call a weak pair with, if you had AK or a weak pair better to check back
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Old 28-10-16, 23:12   #12
Ridonkulous
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some of this confused me, when you say you value bet the river did you bet a hand you thought was ahead or were you bluffing thinking he was folding?

making it about 1300 preflop
flop bet is too small on this board v 3 players
on the river i'm not sure your getting much to fold here and 5 is a good card for him to call a weak pair with, if you had AK or a weak pair better to check back
The intention was to look like a bet that no 9 was beating. I know the 5 river is a good card for him but with the line I've taken throughout I don't see how he can think a pair of 9s no kicker is good. He obviously felt differently. Looking back now if he's check calling throughout the hand he has to check call the river.
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