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Old 19-11-13, 01:52   #21
Mellor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddie View Post
What's a general warm-up routine then? I know I'm meant to move up weight once I hit it but until my form gets better I think it's safer to just stick to 50kgs for the moment. Also one of the reasons I did 5x5 was because it allows more reps and hence more practice but I suppose I could just do that with warm-ups.
I try to include as much dynamic movement in my warm-up as possible. giving a bit of extra attention to my main lift that day.

For deadlifts day it might be:
Foam roll quads, hips, calves.
Thoracic (upper back) stretch over roller
Ankle wall stretch
Fire hydrants
Mountain climbers
Leg raises/front kicks

At least that what it should be when I don't rush.
DeFranco recommends something similar, DeFranco's Agile 8

From there, I work from and empty bar to the work set. So;
20kg x 5 (stiff leg or romanian deadlift)
40kg x 5
50kg x 5 x 3

So 5x3 is still 5 sets total. If the work set was over 100kg, there would be more warm up sets making it 7 or 8 total.

From what you describe, it sounds like its a flex/mobility issue. It's definitely a good idea correct this before you push the load upwards. However, if plates you are using to make up 50kg are smaller than 20kg plates you could be making it harder for yourself as the bar is lower with smaller plates.

Really stretch and warm up before the nest set, and it 50kg feel better then I'd try move to 60kg and practice there, as thats the correct deadlift height.
If you are using full sized 10kg/15kg then you can ignore comments about bar height.
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Old 19-11-13, 10:36   #22
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those are mostly static stretches. Youll get better and easier results with dynamic stretching as part of your warm up.
something like this:


Really try to get more range on every rep.

Also head to mobilitywod.com and start from video one, do one or 2 videos a day and you'll be bendy as fuck in no time.

For warming up for strong lifts you can similar to the video, then get into a full squat position for 1-2 minutes. then move to the barbell. you know your work weight will be xxkg so go from an empty bar in increments until you hit your work weight doing 3-8 reps of each, I do:
8xbar
8x40
5x70
3x95
work sets of 100
The 8 reps of light weight are quick with correct form, more like an extension of the dynamic warm up. During this time im exploring my range of motion to find any tight area where I will do more dynamic stretches or maybe some band assisted work during my rest times.

by the time i get close to my work weight im fully able to reach my full range of motion.


You can still do the static stretches either after your workout or during. Youll see more change that way.

Last edited by thegreatiam; 19-11-13 at 10:39.
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Old 19-11-13, 20:05   #23
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Mellor - Yea I use the 15kgs for the extra height, tempted to use the 20's last time but also think keeping it at 15's will be a good measure of how I am improving in terms of flexibility.

Thanks for the video greataim, looks very useful. Where are the video's on the molbity worl site? It says I need to be a member to watch the daily RX ones.


On the issue of dynamic vs static, which should I do on my off days? Currently when I wake up or go to bed I do about 10 minutes of static stretching but would I be better of dong dynamic?
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Old 19-11-13, 22:37   #24
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Originally Posted by thegreatiam View Post
those are mostly static stretches. Youll get better and easier results with dynamic stretching as part of your warm up.
Edit: Edit thought you were talking to me, was a bit confused.

I'd agree with "Dynamic is better than static", especially before workouts. But its not a rules that applies universally. Some exceptions imo.

The last one from DeFrancos list I posted is static, the hip flexor stretch. The reason being, this muscle directly opposes and restricts hip extension.
K-Starr (mobilitywod.com) also recommends static hip flexor stretching for the same reasons.

For something to do before every lower body workout, you won't go far wrong with that Agile 8. I know there are more comprehensive routines, but personally if they are too long I know I won't bother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddie View Post
Mellor - Yea I use the 15kgs for the extra height, tempted to use the 20's last time but also think keeping it at 15's will be a good measure of how I am improving in terms of flexibility.
If you can get to 20kgs soon it would be best to nail your form down from there. I honestly think a good proper warm-up will make a big difference in how you feel in the set up.

Quote:
Thanks for the video greataim, looks very useful. Where are the video's on the molbity worl site? It says I need to be a member to watch the daily RX ones.
The new ones (ie daily R'X ones) are member only. But all the old stuff should still be there, definitely more than enough. Go back to the very start, try the wall stretch, its horrible but worth it.

Quote:
On the issue of dynamic vs static, which should I do on my off days? Currently when I wake up or go to bed I do about 10 minutes of static stretching but would I be better of dong dynamic?
Dynamic before working out to prep for movement. Static stretches weaken muscles so it shouldn't be done immediately before workout out. Hip flexors are an exception as I mentioned above.

In terms of off days. If it's just something quick getting in/out of bed, I'd stick with dynamic. But you could also do some static holds watching TV (K-Starr's couch stretch is good).

There's more advanced forms too that will be better results, but they're horrible, keep it simple for now.
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Last edited by Mellor; 20-11-13 at 02:21.
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Old 19-11-13, 22:54   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mellor View Post

Did you quote the wrong post?


Pretty sure he's referring to the link in bohsman post.
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Old 20-11-13, 02:24   #26
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yueah, I think you are right. Missed that post and was confused for a bit.
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Old 20-11-13, 10:46   #27
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Yes, mellor, for some reason I dint see your post before I entered mine. I was referring to the link from bohsman. I didnt mean to imply that static stretching is bad or wrong. But for that specific requirement then dynamic will give better results.

I wouldnt really say that dynamic is better than static, but static does get more attention but in incorrect ways. People should be doing both, usually dynamic as a warm up and static as a cool down.

For example you'll often see people warming up by pulling their arm across their chest. This is usually doing nothing for them.

They would be better off doing a series of arm swings.

Try to use a variety of dynamic and static stretches, but if you only have time to do one. Then, as mellor says, go dynamic.

For the mobilitywod site: it is a series of daily vlogs, where he teaches you an exercise a day to work on troubled areas. Its progressive, each day refers to the previous day (usually)
Start at video one and go through them in sequence for the best results. If you have certain trouble spots then you can add them in as you go. You get about 2 years worth of free and useful videos before he starts to charge. So take advantage of his generosity.

Video one challenge is 10 minutes of accumulated time in a full squat. Its a bitch of a thing to do but after a while it becomes easy.

Last edited by thegreatiam; 20-11-13 at 10:58.
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Old 21-11-13, 00:18   #28
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Found the videos on the mobility site, look excellent. Should I wait until I can complete them until I move on? Last about 30 seconds in the squat position.
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Old 21-11-13, 05:12   #29
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That one is especially useful imo.
It's 10 minutes accumulative, so if you last 30 seconds, get back down as many times as need. You'll prob be able for longer periods each time. When I first did it I had to break it into 4 blocks, but the last I tried I manged 13-15 mins in one go.

I'd try complete that before the nest one. I think its the wall/couch hip flexor stretch. I struggle with one. Should prob give it another try.
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Old 21-11-13, 10:26   #30
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Originally Posted by Teddie View Post
Found the videos on the mobility site, look excellent. Should I wait until I can complete them until I move on? Last about 30 seconds in the squat position.
If I were you I would watch the fist 6 or so videos. He outline in each one what to do. the first one is spend 10 minutes total in a squat. The second is a couch stretch i think, he says to 2 minutes on each leg and the rest on the squat. 3rd is an ankle stretch, 4 minutes on each leg the rest on the squat. and it progress like that.

But dont limit your self to that, do it as much and as often as you can

Then spend a while each day on each exercise.

When I started I couldnt even get into a squat position, now I can spend a good few minutes with my butt almost on my heels.

Find some way to incorporate it into your day. For example I used to have a coal fire, so I would spend 5-6 minutes a day squating as I lit the fire.
I would have to stand up every 30 seconds or so and use the mantle to support me but eventually I could get it lit in one squat. That way I never needed to "make time" from my schedule.

Do the couch stretch as you watch tv.
If you have kids or pets then squat down at their height for a few minutes each day.

Soon you will notice small improvements.

Add all of this to your regular mobility work outs. Its not a matter of
"I did 5 minutes of stretching this morning im good til tomorrow." Im always stretching something, right now I am sat with my legs extended stretching my calfs.
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Old 21-11-13, 16:47   #31
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Did the dynamic warm up in the video, didn't have much time so went straight into the 5x5.

Deadlifts: 5x50kgs, 5x50khgs, 50x55kgs, 5x60kgs, 5x60kgs.

Found it much easier in the bottom position. By the 4th-5th set I found the lifts more of struggle. Found it hard to hold the breath and also felt my core give out. Started to use my back to lift by the 5th set rather then the heels+hips drive. Might aim to finished my set @ 60kgs and up it by 5kgs each set.

Squat: 5x20kgs, 5x30kgs, 5x35kgs, 5x40kgs, 5x45kgs.

Squats seemed fine, will try record some for myself to see how I do. Find them a lot eaiser than the DL's so far.

Bench: 5x20kgs, 5x20kgs, 5x25kgs, 5x30kgs, 5x30kgs.

Started fine then struggled at bit for the last set. Might aim for 35kgs on the last set tomorrow.

Dumbell Shoulder Press: 5x8kgs, 5x8kgs, 5x10kgs, 5x10kgs, 5x10kgs

Between the first 3 reps I kept hold of the weight and did some half lateral raises. 5 set was a real struggle.
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Old 21-11-13, 17:27   #32
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5x5 isn't 5x5 for Deadlifts.

http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5...ining-program/

StrongLifts 55 Workout AStrongLifts 55 Workout B
Squat 55Squat 55
Bench Press 55Overhead Press 55
Barbell Rows 55Deadlift 15

Don't think I'd be putting that many reps in myself, ever.

Also, do the exercise in the order posted. Squats first. Want to be as fresh as possible for them.

Last edited by Emmet; 21-11-13 at 17:31.
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Old 21-11-13, 17:49   #33
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Not too pushed on sticking with a strict program yet. Starting out the more deadlifts I can do the better in terms of getting my form down I think. Also, I do want to be ay peak for deadlifts to help keep form strict. So far I've not had much trouble with the squats.

Last edited by Teddie; 21-11-13 at 19:51.
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Old 21-11-13, 17:56   #34
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The program works. Well. I've done it, and am back at it again now with a beginner. I would absolutely say stick to it, don't deviate, follow it as closely as you can. It's well known because it's simple and it's a safe way of learning and progressing, and it gets results.

FWIW - You can't be at peak lifting a 5th set of Deadlifts at anywhere near a work weight.
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Old 21-11-13, 19:55   #35
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Originally Posted by Emmet View Post
The program works. Well. I've done it, and am back at it again now with a beginner. I would absolutely say stick to it, don't deviate, follow it as closely as you can. It's well known because it's simple and it's a safe way of learning and progressing, and it gets results.

FWIW - You can't be at peak lifting a 5th set of Deadlifts at anywhere near a work weight.


I'd be at peak from the start compared to how I'd be if I did squats first is what I meant. I enjoy deadlifts so like to do alot of them. I hate rows also. Wouldn't enjoy the gym as much if I had to do those lifts more than deadlifts.
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Old 21-11-13, 19:58   #36
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Quote:
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I'd be at peak from the start compared to how I'd be if I did squats first is what I meant. I enjoy deadlifts so like to do alot of them. I hate rows also. Wouldn't enjoy the gym as much if I had to do those lifts more than deadlifts.
Certainly better to go to the gym and enjoy yourself than to not go at all but for proper progress I really would recommend following a programme. If you did Starting Strength you would be doing power cleans instead of rows.
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Old 21-11-13, 20:18   #37
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I LOVE Deadlifts! The ultimate no bullshit lift.

But my coach rarely lets me train it. Training it often is frowned upon for numerous reasons and when it gets heavy you won't be able to sustain it.

Keep trucking though. Once you're doing stuff regularly that's a good start.
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Old 21-11-13, 23:14   #38
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Certainly better to go to the gym and enjoy yourself than to not go at all but for proper progress I really would recommend following a programme. If you did Starting Strength you would be doing power cleans instead of rows.

DOubt I could do power cleans yet, very poor flexibility in my shoulders. Would my current program not be a decent enough one though? The aim was to cover the major exercises with the aim to give me a foundation in terms of strength and flexibility in the major muscle groups. Added bonus of enjoying pretty much all the exercises too.



Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLloyd View Post
I LOVE Deadlifts! The ultimate no bullshit lift.

But my coach rarely lets me train it. Training it often is frowned upon for numerous reasons and when it gets heavy you won't be able to sustain it.

Keep trucking though. Once you're doing stuff regularly that's a good start.

Numerous for yourself or in general? If it's a general thing I'd like to hear. Always thought the deadlift was a great exercise once the form is right.
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Old 21-11-13, 23:37   #39
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StrongLifts 55 Workout AStrongLifts 55 Workout B
Squat 55Squat 55
Bench Press 55Overhead Press 55
Deadlift 15Deadlift 15



Explanation from the 5x5 site why they only do 1x5 on DL - http://stronglifts.com/why-deadlifts...ts-5x5-squats/

I'm really new to all this so can't really argue for or against programes, just figure if SL and SS work for a lot of people without any major arguments against it it must be fairly well balanced and would take a lot of reading up to make your own program anywhere near as good or balanced. I wouldn't be sure about DL, OHP and Bench Press all on the one day for example.

At a guess the above table would keep you happy till you have better flexibility.
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Old 22-11-13, 00:11   #40
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I'd recommend sticking with 1x5 for deadlifts once you get going. I think its ok to do higher volume to get the form right but only is they are light.
If you feel like this;
Quote:
Found it hard to hold the breath and also felt my core give out. Started to use my back to lift by the 5th set rather then the heels+hips drive.
I'd stop straight away.

Once you change focus to increasing the weight. I'd be doing as few warm up sets as possible and a single work set. You might end up doing 5 sets once the weight 100kg or above, but the jumps between weights need to be large so that you haven't lifted a massive total by the 5th set. Bigger jumps from set to set are better.
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