50NL zoom

[Mike]

Not playing a huge amount these days but looking back on my session I'm unsure of the line I took here.

villain is 20/16/129 O5 4b, very low 3b (2 or 3%)
hero is 19/15

PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($25.82)
Hero (SB) ($66.40)
BB ($50)
UTG ($53.25)
UTG+1 ($49)
MP1 ($53.74)
MP2 ($50.18)
MP3 ($25.76)
CO ($173.89)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, A
6 folds, Button bets $1.25, Hero raises to $4, BB raises to $8, 1 fold, Hero calls $4

Flop: ($17.25) 7, A, J (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks

Turn: ($17.25) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $9, BB raises to $19,

Ingame I called pf as I thought I'd fold out a lot of his range by either raising over shoving over a cold 4bet? thoughts?

checked flop to check call
turn bet?

[Guest]

He's put in half his stack he's not folding now and you can't risk him checking back on the river so just ship the rest in. Think turn bet sizing is pretty good as it leaves just under pot size river shove.

[Emmet]

He's put in half his stack he's not folding now and you can't risk him checking back on the river so just ship the rest in. Think turn bet sizing is pretty good as it leaves just under pot size river shove.

do we see him as having exactly JJ here?

Doubt AK plays it as above, and we have the Ac too blocking him picking up a nutty flush draw on the turn.

He could have a few bluffs / semi bluffs in his range I guess, but very little in his value range imo. AJx, KQcc perhaps.

Do we get enough calls to make the ship here the right option? Or are we better giving him a final chance at a bluff on river? I'm not certain turning top set into a bluff catcher in a 4bet pot is a great shout, but think that we should be able to get a bet from both his value and bluff hands on the river.

Calling does seem very strange given the pot size though, and perhaps thats why we just shove?

[Daragh999]

Interesting hand, think your line is perfect so far, i like the turn bet and sizing. Villain is seemingly a good player based off his stats and has taken a really weird line on every street. I would usually say this is a really standard jam in such a big pot but im trying to think what hands a standard TAG villain would take this line with and my gut is that there are quite a few bluffs in there and it should really never be AK/AJ/JJ, it might be KQ but even that dosn't make to much sense as he has such an easy C-bet on the flop with v little equity. I think you should just call as a result and give him the option to stick it in himself if he is bluffing, if he has butchered a really strong value hand he will still shove nearly all rivers anyway so we stack him regardless.

[Guest]

Turn I'd say is never any sort of bluff. Like it's a good spot for a cold 4-bet so I don't think he has to have the nuts. Even A4 is possible. My point is that there's so few bluffs in his range that the chance of him folding to a shove is ~0 while he could check back the river (or make quads!) some small percentage of the time such that shoving the turn is marginally better.

[Daragh999]

Turn I'd say is never any sort of bluff. Like it's a good spot for a cold 4-bet so I don't think he has to have the nuts. Even A4 is possible. My point is that there's so few bluffs in his range that the chance of him folding to a shove is ~0 while he could check back the river (or make quads!) some small percentage of the time such that shoving the turn is marginally better.

Guy has shown absolutely no sign that he is capable of doing this as a bluff preflop over a decent hand sample, the sizing pre also makes me think that A4, 56s ect are very unlikely. The line is just so weird while he seems like such a normal TAG that i think bluffs have to be some part of his range and therefore calling turn is slightly better. If there are no bluffs in his range then obv stuffing the turn is best but i really believe this has to be some kind of spaz some % of the time. For the record as well him rivering quads some small % of the time should have no effect on our decision here whatsoever, hes getting it in regardless and we lose those times no matter what, don't be results oriented , the only value hands the villian has that we lose action from by calling on rivers are conterfitted 2 pairs of which there is 1/2 v unlikely combos IMO (A4/A7.)

[Guest]

For the record as well him rivering quads some small % of the time should have no effect on our decision here whatsoever, hes getting it in regardless and we lose those times no matter what, don't be results oriented

Well if he can be spazz bluffing at this stage of the hand he can be cold 4b light just as easily imo. 130 hands isn't a huge sample for preflop 3-4-5 betting tendencies. I was joking really about the quads, but if he's getting it in no matter what, then in fundamental theorem of poker terms it should affect our decision as it's better to get it in now than on the river when he has 2% equity.

[Daragh999]

Well if he can be spazz bluffing at this stage of the hand he can be cold 4b light just as easily imo. 130 hands isn't a huge sample for preflop 3-4-5 betting tendencies. I was joking really about the quads, but if he's getting it in no matter what, then in fundamental theorem of poker terms it should affect our decision as it's better to get it in now than on the river when he has 2% equity.

Lol i was messing about the quads too, i know you don't think like that. Honestly absolutely nothing makes sense on any street and that's all we have to go off so i just think the villain has to have some bluffs in his range. A4 does make sense postflop and we should obv snap jam turn against it but there is a good chance the villain can never ever have that hand based off previous history. Interested for results now OP.

[Emmet]

don't do results yet please!

[Closed_Account]

I like the turn sizing. I like pre and your reasoning aswell. I think it is a really clear call on the turn, like, I dont see how all the money is not going to make its way into the middle given the type of hand he is suggesting he has, unless he is bluffing outright (I doubt very much he would take this turn line with some sort of picked up combo draw) and if he is bluffing the only way more loots go in is if you give him a chance to put them in.

[Hectorjelly]

With a very low 3/4 bet stat I don't like preflop, as its your best chance to cooler AK, KK, QQ. I'd rather call KK than AA.

Personally I don't see much merit in flat calling the turn, because the pot will be twice as big as the effective stack, most people won't bluff in a situation like that.

[Emmet]

any more thoughts on this?

If the pot size was smaller/ we were deeper, would we be calling the turn?

What kind of Stack/Pot Ratio would we call at instead of jamming?

[shano_88]

any more thoughts on this?

If the pot size was smaller/ we were deeper, would we be calling the turn?

What kind of Stack/Pot Ratio would we call at instead of jamming?

Agree with HJ about preflop. With villians low 3b/4b stat, I think preflop is the best time to get It in.

Turn is weird because Im not really sure what he can have here really. I probably jam turn as I dont want him checking back wierldy played Ax hands and missed fds. And Its really unlikely he will bluff river with the pot/stack ratio.

[Hectorjelly]

any more thoughts on this?

If the pot size was smaller/ we were deeper, would we be calling the turn?

What kind of Stack/Pot Ratio would we call at instead of jamming?

I'd say equal or more than 1:1 ratio on the river

[Mike]

With a very low 3/4 bet stat I don't like preflop, as its your best chance to cooler AK, KK, QQ. I'd rather call KK than AA.

Personally I don't see much merit in flat calling the turn, because the pot will be twice as big as the effective stack, most people won't bluff in a situation like that.

Agree with HJ about preflop. With villians low 3b/4b stat, I think preflop is the best time to get It in.

Turn is weird because Im not really sure what he can have here really. I probably jam turn as I dont want him checking back wierldy played Ax hands and missed fds. And Its really unlikely he will bluff river with the pot/stack ratio.

thanks for the replies

I'm still undecided about pf, at the time I thought calling and check raising or check calling flop was best option.

5b click it back or just shove?

results below if anyone is interested

SPOILER

Button ($25.82)
Hero (SB) ($66.40)
BB ($50)
UTG ($53.25)
UTG+1 ($49)
MP1 ($53.74)
MP2 ($50.18)
MP3 ($25.76)
CO ($173.89)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, A
6 folds, Button bets $1.25, Hero raises to $4, BB raises to $8, 1 fold, Hero calls $4

Flop: ($17.25) 7, A, J (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks

Turn: ($17.25) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $9, BB raises to $19, Hero raises to $58.40 (All-In), 1 fold

Total pot: $55.25 | Rake: $2.49