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Live UKIPT Dublin Sat.

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    Live UKIPT Dublin Sat.

    Situation:
    3 handed, blinds = 1K-2K with small ante.
    Button 30K
    SB 18K
    BB ~80K

    1st: UKIPT Ticket; 2nd: Club EOM €200 Ticket; 3rd Nothing.

    Button opens to 5.5K holding A 10.
    SB shoves (tight player, any A, high K & any pair).
    BB reshoves.

    Button?
    Was insta calling SB push but the reshove meant A 10 was certainly beaten.

    Is this still an insta call because if both are knocked out, Button gets the 2nd ticket?

    #2
    fold for me

    Comment


      #3
      Fold hope bb takes out sb and try take him apart heads up.

      Comment


        #4
        As played fold. But you shouldn't be raise folding with a 15bb stack. Much better to just open shove as you only have 15bbs.

        Comment


          #5
          Your opening size is too big.

          Fold now, by folding we increase our chances of securing a ticket and not the other way around. However the hand plays out we still have a stack to put pressure on if 3 handed or only a few flips from the 1st place ticket if heads up.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Caf View Post
            Your opening size is too big.

            Fold now, by folding we increase our chances of securing a ticket and not the other way around. However the hand plays out we still have a stack to put pressure on if 3 handed or only a few flips from the 1st place ticket if heads up.
            So if not open shoving here is your open more in the 4.3k to 4.6k ish?
            Does this not invite the big stacked BB in with ATC?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by gocall01 View Post
              So if not open shoving here is your open more in the 4.3k to 4.6k ish?
              I would min. It gives us a chance to get away from the hand with minimum loss and if stacks are going in post flop it won't be any more difficult to make it happen. Stacks are fairly shallow so every BB counts.

              Originally posted by gocall01 View Post
              Does this not invite the big stacked BB in with ATC?
              No, it shouldn't anyway but it depends on who the big stack is. Some people call with ATC regardless of your opening size, some people will only 3bet/shove or fold in that spot.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by GaryT View Post
                As played fold. But you shouldn't be raise folding with a 15bb stack. Much better to just open shove as you only have 15bbs.
                Not in a sat
                Originally posted by gocall01 View Post
                So if not open shoving here is your open more in the 4.3k to 4.6k ish?
                Does this not invite the big stacked BB in with ATC?
                I'd min raise also. If the BB decides to come along light he is making a mistake.

                As played I fold

                Comment


                  #9
                  BB was definately isolating and after the action before him there is very little chance he has a weak ace . Most likely a decent pair and a lesser chance of a strong Ace (since his play fits with isolating with pairs , you already hold an ace and the SBs play also fits a high possabiltiy of an ace)

                  So for sure you are folding here. You are likely getting a decent flip into cashing without costing you more than the 5k already invested. Thats like christmas in my book. Even AK could be argued to fold there if you looked at the possible outcomes 3 way, vs the possible out comes if you fold..

                  but right now by folding you are likely pair vs pair or decent Ace vs pair.... Either way its going to be more profitable to fold most hands here as its a filp. The SB was also under pressure so despite your raise he hand range is still quite big, the BB wasnt , so he is likely only making htis move with premiums , unless he is ultra agressive (and a but dumb , as you are reasonably likely calling the SB raise anyway).

                  Frmr all angles then , fold , fold or fold

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Result.

                    OK.
                    The reason I posted was I got a bit of grief for "folding".

                    I folded, SB = A9 & BB = AK.
                    BB took it down.

                    Heads up had AhAx busted by flopped flush.

                    Anyway, cheers, really just wanted to get a feel for the general thoughts on the hand.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by dbinit View Post
                      BB was definately isolating and after the action before him there is very little chance he has a weak ace . Most likely a decent pair and a lesser chance of a strong Ace (since his play fits with isolating with pairs , you already hold an ace and the SBs play also fits a high possabiltiy of an ace)

                      So for sure you are folding here. You are likely getting a decent flip into cashing without costing you more than the 5k already invested. Thats like christmas in my book. Even AK could be argued to fold there if you looked at the possible outcomes 3 way, vs the possible out comes if you fold..

                      but right now by folding you are likely pair vs pair or decent Ace vs pair.... Either way its going to be more profitable to fold most hands here as its a filp. The SB was also under pressure so despite your raise he hand range is still quite big, the BB wasnt , so he is likely only making htis move with premiums , unless he is ultra agressive (and a but dumb , as you are reasonably likely calling the SB raise anyway).

                      Frmr all angles then , fold , fold or fold
                      huh?

                      if SB is under pressure and his range is wider, then do you not think that makes BBs range wider too?

                      you also say he should avoid a flip here.
                      i would take a flip here all day knowing i'm ahead of SB's rang and if we both lost to BB then i still get 2nd,if i won it would give me a great chance of binking the ticket.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Gotta disagree with ya im afraid.. You could be spot on but why risk anything here when folding give you a likely flip into cash.(which he did and it worked out pretty good). The SB range is obv pretty big , but lets say hes playing any pair or AJ or better (neither of which are unlikely at all) and BB has a bigger ace or pair.. (again not unlikely) , you could be out quick enough. Why risk it when you could just fold your way into the £££ ?

                        Im with everyone else this time.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by dbinit View Post
                          Gotta disagree with ya im afraid.. You could be spot on but why risk anything here when folding give you a likely flip into cash.(which he did and it worked out pretty good). The SB range is obv pretty big , but lets say hes playing any pair or AJ or better (neither of which are unlikely at all) and BB has a bigger ace or pair.. (again not unlikely) , you could be out quick enough. Why risk it when you could just fold your way into the £££ ?

                          Im with everyone else this time.
                          you may be with every one else but i assure you ,your reasoning is not.

                          like i said you pay way more attention to factors that really don't matter and not enough attention to factors that do...

                          because calling gives you roughly the same chance of coming second but increases your chances of winning it (should you win the hand).

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Gholimoli View Post
                            you may be with every one else but i assure you ,your reasoning is not.

                            like i said you pay way more attention to factors that really don't matter and not enough attention to factors that do...

                            because calling gives you roughly the same chance of coming second but increases your chances of winning it (should you win the hand).
                            I see both sides here and it took me a while to fold but I erred on the cautious side.
                            I was 95% sure my A 10 was ahead of the SB but more sure I was behind the BB so I folded.
                            Yes I could have had a suck out that would have had me in good position but in my mind it was equally as likely that the SB could have the suck out and I'd be dead/gone.

                            Anyways cheers for the feedback.
                            This forum always does the business.
                            Last edited by gocall01; 21-05-12, 10:50. Reason: grammar

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Gholimoli View Post
                              you may be with every one else but i assure you ,your reasoning is not.

                              like i said you pay way more attention to factors that really don't matter and not enough attention to factors that do...

                              because calling gives you roughly the same chance of coming second but increases your chances of winning it (should you win the hand).
                              Would gladly bow to your knowledge here for sure. As said , its just my opinion and nothing more. But dont you think there are quite a few hands that the BB has would dominate us in this case. For me the absolute best result im putting him on is a pair.. And ive prob already lost an out if the SB has a shoving hand like ace X.

                              Not trying to disagree with u Gholimoli, but im always interested to see others reasoning, especially those with experience. You are def up for calling a lot of shoves when we could quite likely be behind from reading your other posts. ive always found when suspicious of a bluff or steal , if im calling , i really need to be quite sure i have the best of it enough times against the calling odds to be profitable.

                              I like to think i consider exactly what matters though and in poker thats information. Here we have a raise , a shove and a re-shove... Now for me that puts the re-shover much of the time on a very large hand. Of course we also have to widen his range due to the fact that he is a big stack and can be bullying knowing the current stage of the game, but we should also consider the reasonable chance that SB is also beating A10 , or at least has taken one of our outs with a weak ace.

                              Id be really interested to hear more of your reasoning for calling tbh. I just cant see how i would get to that.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                no need to bow to anything man.
                                i'm a busto boy several times over

                                however my theory is not all that bad and this situation is not close imo.

                                if you fold SB will go up against BB.
                                he will lose 67% of the time which means if you fold you will get second place 67% of the time.


                                Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

                                34,023,480,480 games 0.005 secs 6,804,696,096,000 games/sec

                                Board:
                                Dead:

                                equity win tie pots won pots tied
                                Hand 0: 67.434% 65.91% 01.53% 22423570080 519666644.00 { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }
                                Hand 1: 32.566% 31.04% 01.53% 10560577112 519666644.00 { 22+, A2s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, A2o+, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }


                                ---

                                32,489,256,096 games 0.067 secs 484,914,270,089 games/sec

                                Board:
                                Dead:

                                if you call SB only wins 25% of the time and since even if you and SB both lose ,you still get second place then that means if you call you will get second place 75% of the time which is a good 8% better than if you fold.

                                also if you call 20% of the time you will have 78K when you go HU.
                                if you fold you will go HU with 24K .









                                text results appended to pokerstove.txt

                                213,179,662,080 games 278.738 secs 764,803,012 games/sec

                                Board:
                                Dead:

                                equity win tie pots won pots tied
                                Hand 0: 19.735% 18.24% 01.49% 38886767676 3184845076.00 { ATo }
                                Hand 1: 25.138% 23.77% 01.37% 50665945284 2924055316.00 { 22+, A2s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, 98s, 87s, 76s, A2o+, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }
                                Hand 2: 55.126% 53.77% 01.36% 114625329552 2892719176.00 { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }




                                edit to say:
                                ok i did and ICM based on the calc above and looks like my theory is actually pretty bad.
                                i was totally wrong and while it's close folding is better option (by like $17) .
                                obv this is a fold
                                Last edited by Gholimoli; 21-05-12, 16:47.

                                Comment

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