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    Pok3rplaya thread fwiw

    I just wanted to make a point of how much equity I have on the flop if I expect he is minraising with TP type hands worse than mine. Even with a boat load of 2pr and set hands in his range it is still worth considering 3betting for value rather than just calling and having to play OOP on the turn and river.

    I think that 3betting tiny is the best line here , often what will happen if we just call is that the villain will check back the turn and get 2 streets to improve to a better hand, costing us value against the large part of his range that we beat. On the other hand if we 3bet he will often turn his hand face up because he will shove with his strong hands and just call with the part of his range that we beat and we can play accordingly. Of course it's difficult because to whether or not we should call or fold to a shove when we 3bet basically hinges on whether or not he shoves his OESD's and we can usually only make a guess at that. I still think 3bet/decide could be better than call though.

    $1/$2 No Limit Holdem
    4 Players
    Hand Conversion Powered by http://weaktight.com/

    Stacks:
    CO $194
    BTN $267.40
    Hero $306.70
    BB $195.70

    Pre-Flop: ($3, 4 players) Hero is SB Qd Ac
    2 folds, Hero raises to $8, BB calls $6

    Flop: Th 6s Qc ($16, 2 players)
    Hero bets $12, BB raises to $24,

    equity win tie pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 42.343% 36.84% 05.51% 20423 3052.00 { 66, AQs, KJs+, Q9s+, Q6s, J9s, T6s, AQo, KJo+, QTo+ }
    Hand 1: 57.657% 52.15% 05.51% 28913 3052.00 { AcQd }

    #2
    No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    SB ($502.70)
    BB ($206)
    UTG ($200)
    MP ($203)
    Hero (Button) ($200)

    Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, 9
    1 fold, MP bets $6, Hero calls $6, 2 folds

    Flop: ($15) 10, 6, 3 (2 players)
    MP bets $10, Hero calls $10

    Turn: ($35) 5 (2 players)
    MP bets $25, Hero calls $25

    River: ($85) 4 (2 players)
    MP bets $99, Hero calls $99

    Total pot: $283

    Results:
    Hero had 9, 9 (one pair, nines).
    MP had Q, A (high card, Ace).
    Outcome: Hero won $280

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by pok3rplaya View Post
      I just wanted to make a point of how much equity I have on the flop if I expect he is minraising with TP type hands worse than mine. Even with a boat load of 2pr and set hands in his range it is still worth considering 3betting for value rather than just calling and having to play OOP on the turn and river.

      I think that 3betting tiny is the best line here , often what will happen if we just call is that the villain will check back the turn and get 2 streets to improve to a better hand, costing us value against the large part of his range that we beat. On the other hand if we 3bet he will often turn his hand face up because he will shove with his strong hands and just call with the part of his range that we beat and we can play accordingly. Of course it's difficult because to whether or not we should call or fold to a shove when we 3bet basically hinges on whether or not he shoves his OESD's and we can usually only make a guess at that. I still think 3bet/decide could be better than call though.

      $1/$2 No Limit Holdem
      4 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by http://weaktight.com/

      Stacks:
      CO $194
      BTN $267.40
      Hero $306.70
      BB $195.70

      Pre-Flop: ($3, 4 players) Hero is SB Qd Ac
      2 folds, Hero raises to $8, BB calls $6

      Flop: Th 6s Qc ($16, 2 players)
      Hero bets $12, BB raises to $24,

      equity win tie pots won pots tied
      Hand 0: 42.343% 36.84% 05.51% 20423 3052.00 { 66, AQs, KJs+, Q9s+, Q6s, J9s, T6s, AQo, KJo+, QTo+ }
      Hand 1: 57.657% 52.15% 05.51% 28913 3052.00 { AcQd }
      Ya, i'd usually 3bet this flop sb versus bb. For the reasons you give and also because it can never be good if the villian can make us shut down and take control of the pot with a raise here, especially when we have top of our range. I wouldnt make it too tiny though, still loads of value from worse and he'll peel with plenty of draws, raise to like $65 or more seems ok. Are you planning on raising smaller than that?
      "Don't overcomplicate a straight forward game with mathematical bullshit and dicussing different lines with your geeky friends" Chris Olaafson

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by pok3rplaya View Post
        I just wanted to make a point of how much equity I have on the flop if I expect he is minraising with TP type hands worse than mine. Even with a boat load of 2pr and set hands in his range it is still worth considering 3betting for value rather than just calling and having to play OOP on the turn and river.

        I think that 3betting tiny is the best line here , often what will happen if we just call is that the villain will check back the turn and get 2 streets to improve to a better hand, costing us value against the large part of his range that we beat. On the other hand if we 3bet he will often turn his hand face up because he will shove with his strong hands and just call with the part of his range that we beat and we can play accordingly. Of course it's difficult because to whether or not we should call or fold to a shove when we 3bet basically hinges on whether or not he shoves his OESD's and we can usually only make a guess at that. I still think 3bet/decide could be better than call though.

        $1/$2 No Limit Holdem
        4 Players
        Hand Conversion Powered by http://weaktight.com/

        Stacks:
        CO $194
        BTN $267.40
        Hero $306.70
        BB $195.70

        Pre-Flop: ($3, 4 players) Hero is SB Qd Ac
        2 folds, Hero raises to $8, BB calls $6

        Flop: Th 6s Qc ($16, 2 players)
        Hero bets $12, BB raises to $24,

        equity win tie pots won pots tied
        Hand 0: 42.343% 36.84% 05.51% 20423 3052.00 { 66, AQs, KJs+, Q9s+, Q6s, J9s, T6s, AQo, KJo+, QTo+ }
        Hand 1: 57.657% 52.15% 05.51% 28913 3052.00 { AcQd }
        Yup, i'd agree with what you're saying, i'd be 3betting the flop too so we can play for stacks vs KQ/QJ/KJ/J9 type hands.

        Originally posted by pok3rplaya View Post
        No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

        SB ($502.70)
        BB ($206)
        UTG ($200)
        MP ($203)
        Hero (Button) ($200)

        Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, 9
        1 fold, MP bets $6, Hero calls $6, 2 folds

        Flop: ($15) 10, 6, 3 (2 players)
        MP bets $10, Hero calls $10

        Turn: ($35) 5 (2 players)
        MP bets $25, Hero calls $25

        River: ($85) 4 (2 players)
        MP bets $99, Hero calls $99

        Total pot: $283

        Results:
        Hero had 9, 9 (one pair, nines).
        MP had Q, A (high card, Ace).
        Outcome: Hero won $280
        Seems like an easy call down, his river shove is lolbad. TT or 66 are about the only hands he's value shoving the river with here imo. And he hardly ever shows up with a 7 or 2 of course.

        Comment


          #5
          Hand 1: I 3 bet, probably to 74 or so, that creates a 164 turn pot with effective stacks of 110 or so, happy to open push most turns

          Hand 2: Call down looks good

          Comment


            #6
            what about calling and donking the turn?

            Comment


              #7
              Don't see what the benefit of that is other than giving him an extra street to spike something juicy like a king.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by phantom_lord View Post
                what about calling and donking the turn?
                Originally posted by pok3rplaya View Post
                Don't see what the benefit of that is other than giving him an extra street to spike something juicy like a king.


                I think it can be cool to do if you have a spewy image, or if you know his range for raising the flop is heavily weighted to air hands.

                Comment


                  #9
                  3betting the flop small (like $60) gives him just as much spazz factor while denying him a look at the turn better.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    LOL re-min raise the mo fo - it could tilt him into spazzing out and getting it in terrible

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by pok3rplaya View Post
                      3betting the flop small (like $60) gives him just as much spazz factor while denying him a look at the turn better.

                      Is the villain spazzy? There is no reads that i see in OP so idk? I have been finding players aren't biting these inducing bets as much lately (assuming he is competent)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Yeh I didn't give a read because I wanted to talk about the spot in general. I think small 3bet/call is good against a spazzy fish. I think it would be possible to find a type of passive fish with whom small 3bet/fold is the best line too.

                        Don't think the spot will arise against regs because they don't really minraise the flop with TP hands much IP.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by pok3rplaya View Post
                          Don't see what the benefit of that is other than giving him an extra street to spike something juicy like a king.
                          Originally posted by pok3rplaya View Post
                          I just wanted to make a point of how much equity I have on the flop if I expect he is minraising with TP type hands worse than mine. Even with a boat load of 2pr and set hands in his range it is still worth considering 3betting for value rather than just calling and having to play OOP on the turn and river.

                          I think that 3betting tiny is the best line here , often what will happen if we just call is that the villain will check back the turn and get 2 streets to improve to a better hand, costing us value against the large part of his range that we beat.
                          It would prevent him doing that for a start, but do you not think it gets more value from his range? I presume a bunch of them are doing it to see where they are or w/e, so if you go and 3bet it I dunno how often they're likely to go stack of with worse. But he'd be happy to call off two more streets.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I just think there's now way he's ever folding to a tiny 3bet getting like 4-1 or whatever so I'd rather put the money in while the puttings good. I don't need to stack him on the flop every time he has Q3, he will often call and then I can do whatever I want on the turn and river and I still get all the money in. I get more information by 3betting, I make him pay for the turn and I take back initiative and it's better for balance not that that matters. All these things are advantages that 3betting small has over calling and leading the turn. I see no disadvantage because I think he never folds Q3 to a CiB.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              €1/€2 Holdem in the Dublin Poker Festival

                              Villain is someone I've played with a lot. I have a good handle on how he plays and what he's capable of. Definitely can bluff and run lines that make decent sense but doesn't have a good handle on what his own range is in hands. Has respect for my game too.

                              I have Qd Jd in EPish
                              Can't really remember the preflop action. I probably opened to €12 (8 handed table but could have been one or two gone from the table) and got one caller in SB.


                              Standard.


                              Flop Tc 8c 5d
                              Pot: €26 or something
                              SB checks. I bet €15. IP caller folds. SB makes it €50.


                              There's some merit to checking back here, especially if I believe the opponent is likely to c/r a range which has a lot of draws and also all his 2 pairs and sets. I'm putting myself in a tough spot in that situation by not making him define his range.

                              That said, I have a lot of equity against his c/r range so betting can't be that bad.

                              Turn: Kh
                              Pot: €126
                              SB bets something like €110. I call.
                              I can't remember the exact size of the bet but I remember thinking it was a big bet and tying to read something into that.


                              If he continues with 100% of this range on the turn I'm looking even better.

                              River: Th
                              Pot: €346
                              SB bets something like €250. There's probably another €350 behind.


                              And on the river vs. 100% of his range:

                              Since I'm short on time at the moment, I think I should shove the river.


                              Will come back to this with more analysis.
                              Last edited by pok3rplaya; 16-02-17, 19:54.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Here's another spot I want to run the math on:

                                One limper, I open 6c7h to €13, button makes it €35, donk in SB calls, Limper calls, I do what?

                                How does it change for various configurations of stack sizes and 3bet sizes?
                                How does it change if the 3bet comes from the SB and the BB cold-calls?

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  What are the games like out there? Running all day? do you know the rake in the 1/2?

                                  I am probably folding the flop against most opponents but a call isn't terrible. Pretty much always fold the river if I get there.

                                  Call hand 2 and hope to flop Gin.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by eoghan104 View Post
                                    What are the games like out there? Running all day? do you know the rake in the 1/2?

                                    I am probably folding the flop against most opponents but a call isn't terrible. Pretty much always fold the river if I get there.

                                    Call hand 2 and hope to flop Gin.
                                    What's range do you give him on the river?





                                    Rake is insane. 1/2 is 5% capped at €15. We got a 2/5 going last night which is 5% capped at €10.

                                    Games have been decent IMO. Not many of them going really (it's early in the week) but they're juicy enough. I've been running like God so I might be biased. I've only been in the evenings so can't comment on how early it kicks off.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Just waltz in and post 7 years later like it's the most natural thing ever

                                      Comment

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